The official Brazilian GP 2018 thread **spoilers**

[768]

Teddy Lop said:

Maybe, too many people that know more than me have laid the blame on Ocon so I have to concede it was at the least a hard move. A "no choice, let me by or we crash" move.

Met with a hard defence and a crash.

I assumed it wasn't a defence, he just thought Ocon didn't get the job done on the straight or turn 1 and that therefore he had the corner for turn 2.

Interesting to see the Ocon onboard, the audio is so clear compared to what Sky seems to carry. Ocon was absolutely flying, I'd guess the Red Bull did a much better job in the braking zone.

[FourWheelDrift]

Max is and always will be an petulant child but Ocon still passed and ignored nine consecutive blues on that out lap for Hamilton behind. The rules say if you pass 3 you can expect penalties, like Grosjean did in Singapore. He got 2 penalty points for that.

[sparta6]

FourWheelDrift said:

Max is and always will be an petulant child but Ocon still passed and ignored nine consecutive blues on that out lap for Hamilton behind. The rules say if you pass 3 you can expect penalties, like Grosjean did in Singapore. He got 2 penalty points for that.

And there we have it.
Rules is rules.

There is a separate thread on the BS of blue flags in F1

[angrymoby]

sparta6 said:

And there we have it.
Rules is rules.

There is a separate thread on the BS of blue flags in F1

afaiaa blue flags are to warn drivers when a 'faster' driver is approaching & within 1.2s ...not sure Hamilton was either of those tbh

[RichB]

angrymoby said:

sparta6 said:

And there we have it.
Rules is rules.

There is a separate thread on the BS of blue flags in F1

afaiaa blue flags are to warn drivers when a 'faster' driver is approaching & within 1.2s ...not sure Hamilton was either of those tbh

He could not have been. Verstappen was 5.x seconds ahead of Hamilton and Ocon was on Vertsappen's gearbox. He would have been 3.9 to 4.0 seconds ahead of Hamilton. (I think)

[anonymous-user]

Apologies if this has been posted already.

Max Verstappen Uncensored Radio Brazilian GP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ga4i6n_BUY

[JNW1]

HustleRussell said:

andburg said:

Drivers - Ocon was an idiot, he should not unlap himself if it means he gets in the way of the leader

So do you have quotes to substantiate that or are you talking for F1 drivers now?

Well apparently Jolyon Palmer thought it was the worst piece of driving he'd ever seen in F1: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06rfyh2

I can only assume he's never watched a replay of the start of the 1990 Japanese GP.......

[anonymous-user]

JNW1 said:

Well apparently Jolyon Palmer thought it was the worst piece of driving he'd ever seen in F1: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06rfyh2

I can only assume he's never watched a replay of the start of the 1990 Japanese GP.......

The 1989 Japanese GP started what was finished at the same track a year later.

Prost turned in early knowing he would hit Senna and win the title.

He made sure of it with his best friend Jean-Marie Balestre when Senna went on to win that race.

Jean-Marie Balestre was meddling behind the scenes during 1989 and 1990 and this is why the 1990 Japanese GP finished as it did.

Senna's actions were extreme but so was what was going on behind his back.

[RichB]

Senna started what Schumacher perfected. Neither can rate as the best driver ever in my eyes because of this.

[E34-3.2]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

The 1989 Japanese GP started what was finished at the same track a year later.

Prost turned in early knowing he would hit Senna and win the title.

He made sure of it with his best friend Jean-Marie Balestre when Senna went on to win that race.

Jean-Marie Balestre was meddling behind the scenes during 1989 and 1990 and this is why the 1990 Japanese GP finished as it did.

Senna's actions were extreme but so was what was going on behind his back.

As a french person, I can assure you that Balestre and Prost absolutely hated each others. The Senna Movie painted a picture that only people outside France can believe for some reasons. the thing is that Balestre not only did not like Prost but absolutely hated Senna for his attitude.

[anonymous-user]

RichB said:

Senna started what Schumacher perfected. Neither can rate as the best driver ever in my eyes because of this.

F1 is completely different now. The FIA President is not trying to stop a driver from winning a Championship

It's impossible to comprehend what it must have been like battling drivers on a circuit and also having the FIA president trying his best behind the scenes to make sure.

It was clear what was going on when Jean-Marie Balestre lost his FISA Presidency the year after to Max Mosley and then stepped down knowing he was going to lose his FIA Presidency as well.

Senna was pushed into a corner so he decided to take it full throttle.

Considering the above I think it's pretty poor to remember the man in this way considering what he was against.

Prost and Balestre on the other hand......

[Vaud]

RichB said:

Senna started what Schumacher perfected. Neither can rate as the best driver ever in my eyes because of this.

There is no such think, in my humble opinion as "best driver ever". Too many variables in an ever changing sport.

Maybe measure best of a decade? Of a rules era. But the expectations, rules and sport change so much that comparisons are hard.

Senna was a bad sportsman. Schumacher cheated. Maybe Fangio did. Or Stewart. We have some much more information now (tv, sensors, etc) that we risk false comparisons.

My guess is that many prior greats also cheated, it is not a new invention. There just weren't the systems and processes in place to catch them (and the rules were more "open to interpretation")

Maybe Fangio perfected cheating. We will never know.

[anonymous-user]

E34-3.2 said:

As a french person, I can assure you that Balestre and Prost absolutely hated each others. The Senna Movie painted a picture that only people outside France can believe for some reasons. the thing is that Balestre not only did not like Prost but absolutely hated Senna for his attitude.

Prost was pictured speaking to Balestre after colliding with Senna in 1989.

He actually ran to the officials.

Then at 1990 Suzuka GP Balestre moved the pole position to the dirty side of the track which put Prost who was 2nd on the grid on the clean side.

But Balestre hated Prost??

[paua]

[quote=ELUSIVEJIM] said a load of old cobblers. Prost detested Balestre. They weren't conniving anything. Take off your tinfoil hat.

[angrymoby]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Prost was pictured speaking to Balestre after colliding with Senna in 1989.

He actually ran to the officials.

Then at 1990 Suzuka GP Balestre moved the pole position to the dirty side of the track which put Prost who was 2nd on the grid on the clean side.

But Balestre hated Prost??

Balestre disliked both of them ...in fact i'm pretty sure Balestre disliked all drivers & they probably all disliked him as much

& pole position wasn't moved in '90, Senna wanted it moved ...Balestre refused, probably because Senna didn't complain too much when he started from there in pole position in '89 & '88

Suzuka '90 was just the culmination of 2 years of building resentment between the pair & Senna's belief that Prost took him out in '89 (& tbf looking at the replays & Ron's subsequent reaction, it's hard say Prost didn't)

& I say that as a massive Senna fan, but not a delusional one

[Derek Smith]

E34-3.2 said:

As a french person, I can assure you that Balestre and Prost absolutely hated each others. The Senna Movie painted a picture that only people outside France can believe for some reasons. the thing is that Balestre not only did not like Prost but absolutely hated Senna for his attitude.

Balestre favoured France. I doubt even he would disagree with that. He was biased. Whether he 'hated' Prost is open for discussion, but there was a lot to dislike about Balestre. The best thing one can say about his time in charge is he was replaced by someone worse.

Balestre was an odd chap. Given to decisions without reference to others, nursing imagined grievances against various people in F1; he was quite strange.

He was, at the very least, an enthusiast for the sport, which is not something very many accused his replacement of.

But odd.

Who can name the bloke in charge of the ACO? That's the way to be in charge of a sport.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

I can't think of one occasion where HAM cheated? I honestly can't. I get the lie-gate stuff and his running competitions off at corner exit but neither of those are cheating to me. Just my opinion.

But then I never saw SEN as one either? Just my opinion again - Suzuka 1990 was't cheating, it was getting your own back.

I'm well aware my views might make people think I'm an arse but that's the way I see it (& saw it at the time).

[Exige77]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

I can't think of one occasion where HAM cheated? I honestly can't. I get the lie-gate stuff and his running competitions off at corner exit but neither of those are cheating to me. Just my opinion.

But then I never saw SEN as one either? Just my opinion again - Suzuka 1990 was't cheating, it was getting your own back.

I'm well aware my views might make people think I'm an arse but that's the way I see it (& saw it at the time).

You might be an arse but I agree with you !!

Does that make me an arse as well ?

[E34-3.2]

angrymoby said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Prost was pictured speaking to Balestre after colliding with Senna in 1989.

He actually ran to the officials.

Then at 1990 Suzuka GP Balestre moved the pole position to the dirty side of the track which put Prost who was 2nd on the grid on the clean side.

But Balestre hated Prost??

Balestre disliked both of them ...in fact i'm pretty sure Balestre disliked all drivers & they probably all disliked him as much

& pole position wasn't moved in '90, Senna wanted it moved ...Balestre refused, probably because Senna didn't complain too much when he started from there in pole position in '89 & '88

Suzuka '90 was just the culmination of 2 years of building resentment between the pair & Senna's belief that Prost took him out in '89 (& tbf looking at the replays & Ron's subsequent reaction, it's hard say Prost didn't)

& I say that as a massive Senna fan, but not a delusional one

Yep, people have a selective memory about the famous 90 grid position.
Senna was the one spreading rumours about Balestre and Prost.
Senna was very good at turning people against his rival. He managed to turn nearly the all team against Prost at McLaren.
I remember vividly how much Prost couldn't stand Balestre, French motorsport programs didn't hide it either. As mentioned above, Balestre was odd and very few liked him.

[Roofless Toothless]

I always enjoy comparing the starts of the 1989 and 1990 Japanese GPs. In 1989 it is a quite normal start, all the cars reaching Turn One fairly close to eachother and jostling for opportunities, as you would expect. The following year Prost and Senna get there about 50 yards ahead of the rest of the field, who are clearly holding back for their own safety, fully aware of what was about to happen next. Everybody on and around the track knew what was about to come off, and Senna duly delivered the goods. In my opinion he should have been banned for at least a full season.