Leclerc, Vettel & Ferrari 2019

Leclerc, Vettel & Ferrari 2019

Author
Discussion

Brainpox

2,373 posts

87 months

Tuesday 27th November
quotequote all
Vettel will still be Ferrari's no. 1 next year and the car will be built around him first and foremost.

Allegedly Vettel is as dominating a force inside a team as Hamilton is i.e. manages to get things his way, sets high expectations of the engineers etc. Basically a decent motivator.

Leclerc has all the talent, will be interesting to see how it translates to the top end of the field. Hopefully the pressure won't upset his performance. We've seen a few drivers crumble after being promoted.


shirt

18,542 posts

137 months

Tuesday 27th November
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
shirt said:
If leclerc does indeed outperform vettel then i could well imagine vet being replaced with giovanizzi, giving ferrari their italian driver with confidence that they would be pairing him with a proven no.1.
Some of this is comedy gold.

So, you’re the Ferrari team manager and your new, 21 year old driver has had a better season than your 4-time world champion driver.

Over what timescale are you suggesting that you will then replace said 4-time world champion with your young reserve driver who has entered the sum total of two F1 races?

A season? Two seasons?

This is the Ferrari F1 team. Running a 21 year old with one previous season at Sauber, no matter how good he appears to be, and an unproven rookie will get you shown the door faster than a librarian with Tourette’s.
Albeit under different circumstances and fred didn’t have his feet under the table, but that’s what hamilton was able to do on his debut. If leclerc is THAT good surely it has to give the management confidence, plus i doubt vettels ego would handle it any differently than alonso did

HardtopManual

1,070 posts

102 months

Tuesday 27th November
quotequote all
turbomoped said:
You dont get to be 4x champion by being crap and he will raise his game again.
Maybe it all got a bit cozy during the Kimi years.
You do get to be 4x champion by being good but not great, having a huge car advantage and a team-mate who's way past his best though.

If Vettel leaves Ferrari, his career goes the way of Alonso's. Can't go to Merc while Lewis is there (and I think he'll be there until he's either beaten or can no longer beat MSC's records), won't go back to RB, especially while Max is there. Even if Renault improve, does he want to partner Danny Ric again? Wouldn't have thought so. He needs to get the job done at Ferrari.

audi321

3,957 posts

149 months

Tuesday 27th November
quotequote all
LeClerk to win drivers championship is 9/1. Worth a few quid I'd say. I think he'll smash Vettel and he'll retire.

Muzzer79

2,498 posts

123 months

Tuesday 27th November
quotequote all
shirt said:
Muzzer79 said:
shirt said:
If leclerc does indeed outperform vettel then i could well imagine vet being replaced with giovanizzi, giving ferrari their italian driver with confidence that they would be pairing him with a proven no.1.
Some of this is comedy gold.

So, you’re the Ferrari team manager and your new, 21 year old driver has had a better season than your 4-time world champion driver.

Over what timescale are you suggesting that you will then replace said 4-time world champion with your young reserve driver who has entered the sum total of two F1 races?

A season? Two seasons?

This is the Ferrari F1 team. Running a 21 year old with one previous season at Sauber, no matter how good he appears to be, and an unproven rookie will get you shown the door faster than a librarian with Tourette’s.
Albeit under different circumstances and fred didn’t have his feet under the table, but that’s what hamilton was able to do on his debut. If leclerc is THAT good surely it has to give the management confidence, plus i doubt vettels ego would handle it any differently than alonso did
Alonso was, to all intents and purposes, sacked for threatening to blackmail the team, amongst other things.

The team had no choice but to let him go, regardless of Hamilton’s performance.

The two situations are not comparable.

This is a Ferrari, the lead driver needs to be able to be fighting consistently over the course of a season for the WDC. At 21 years old, they will not be able to tell LeClerc is THAT good after one or two seasons, certainly not enough to dispose of their other driver, the 4-time world champion.

As a comparison, If he was available, would you sack Vettel and replace him with Verstappen? I wouldn’t....




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TobyTR

230 posts

82 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
I predict a tasty Vettel / Leclerc battle, similar to 2007 Alonso / Hamilton, with Arrivabene failing to handle the pair accordingly, giving Merc the WCC by a narrow margin.

LP670

509 posts

62 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
i think next year will be Vettel's last at Ferrari..... i'm predicting an Alonso/Leclerc lineup in 2020

37chevy

2,139 posts

92 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
LP670 said:
i think next year will be Vettel's last at Ferrari..... i'm predicting an Alonso/Leclerc lineup in 2020
why on earth would they have Alonso back, if vettel doesn't perform or Leclerc beats him? last thing you want to do is destabilise the team by bringing a character like Alonso back.

LaurasOtherHalf

14,064 posts

132 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
Regarding Mercedes, they have no need for anyone but HAM until he decides to retire. Certainly not VET!

Even if he left them in the lurch they have the money to simply hire anyone they want, let’s be honest any driver would pay their own buy out clause to get that seat.

As for LEC, he seems to have an old head on young shoulders but let’s wait and see how he performs in the pressure cooker of Maranello.

HTP99

13,131 posts

76 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
LP670 said:
i think next year will be Vettel's last at Ferrari..... i'm predicting an Alonso/Leclerc lineup in 2020
No chance; Alonso wont be back in F1 at all, if there is a slim chance he is wanted back then it won't be in a Ferrari.

The young guns are coming through, Alonso isn't needed.

LP670

509 posts

62 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
37chevy said:
LP670 said:
i think next year will be Vettel's last at Ferrari..... i'm predicting an Alonso/Leclerc lineup in 2020
why on earth would they have Alonso back, if vettel doesn't perform or Leclerc beats him? last thing you want to do is destabilise the team by bringing a character like Alonso back.
I haven't got a logical explanation for why they would do it, not saying it makes sense its just me putting 2+2 together and getting 5 after watching the Fernando goodbye video on the F1 Youtube channel.

HustleRussell

15,460 posts

96 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
As we speak Leclerc is topping the timesheet in Abu Dhabi and is probably close to 100 miles in the 2018 Ferrari if he hasn't exceeded that already.

He has proven to be an adaptable driver, getting on top of the Sauber over the first few races of this season and performing consistently thereafter.

Leclerc has fantastic pedigree including being godson to Jules Bianci so probably has more F1 nous than people expect.

Vettel is especially good in qualifying but I can imagine Leclerc pressuring him quite quickly. How Vettel responds to that is the making of the man. He can't repeat his flounce over Ricciardo.

super7

389 posts

144 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
shirt said:
Muzzer79 said:
shirt said:
If leclerc does indeed outperform vettel then i could well imagine vet being replaced with giovanizzi, giving ferrari their italian driver with confidence that they would be pairing him with a proven no.1.
Some of this is comedy gold.

So, you’re the Ferrari team manager and your new, 21 year old driver has had a better season than your 4-time world champion driver.

Over what timescale are you suggesting that you will then replace said 4-time world champion with your young reserve driver who has entered the sum total of two F1 races?

A season? Two seasons?

This is the Ferrari F1 team. Running a 21 year old with one previous season at Sauber, no matter how good he appears to be, and an unproven rookie will get you shown the door faster than a librarian with Tourette’s.
Albeit under different circumstances and fred didn’t have his feet under the table, but that’s what hamilton was able to do on his debut. If leclerc is THAT good surely it has to give the management confidence, plus i doubt vettels ego would handle it any differently than alonso did
Alonso was, to all intents and purposes, sacked for threatening to blackmail the team, amongst other things.

The team had no choice but to let him go, regardless of Hamilton’s performance.

The two situations are not comparable.

This is a Ferrari, the lead driver needs to be able to be fighting consistently over the course of a season for the WDC. At 21 years old, they will not be able to tell LeClerc is THAT good after one or two seasons, certainly not enough to dispose of their other driver, the 4-time world champion.

As a comparison, If he was available, would you sack Vettel and replace him with Verstappen? I wouldn’t....
Alonso threatened to blackmail the team that they had Ferrari designs on their computers..... McLaren responded by comming clean to the FIA. That got a few people sacked and banned from F1 and ended up with McLaren getting a $100m fine. I can see why they had to let him go and have no idea why they let him back again....

Oh and most of the fine was paid by Mercedes, If I remember.....

Anyway.... Leclerc of to a flying start beating Vettel's time within 2hrs of getting in the car... not that it means fk all 'cos nobody knows what tyres are on or how hard they are going with them..... Still. Leclerc at the top of the tables.....

LaurasOtherHalf

14,064 posts

132 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
Leclerc has fantastic pedigree including being godson to Jules Bianci so probably has more F1 nous than people expect.
WTF difference does that make?!

FourWheelDrift

75,524 posts

220 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
He's finished the Abu Dhabi test quickest :

Day 2 times.
1. Charles Leclerc MON Scuderia Ferrari 1m36.450s
2. Pierre Gasly FRA Aston Martin Red Bull Racing + 1.466s
3. Lance Stroll CAN Racing Point Force India F1 Team + 1.594s
4. Valtteri Bottas FIN Mercedes AMG Petronas Motorsport + 1.998s
5. Carlos Sainz Jr. ESP McLaren F1 Team + 2.097s
6. Artem Markelov RUS Renault Sport Formula One Team + 2.140s
7. George Russell GBR Williams Martini Racing + 2.352s
8. Daniil Kvyat RUS Red Bull Toro Rosso Honda + 2.412s
9. Louis Deletraz SUI Haas F1 Team + 2.619s
10. Robert Kubica POL Williams Martini Racing + 3.815s
11. Antonio Giovinazzi ITA Alfa Romeo Sauber F1 Team + 3.985s

Previous Day 1 times
1. Sebastian Vettel GER Scuderia Ferrari 1m36.812s (68 laps)
2. Valtteri Bottas FIN Mercedes AMG Petronas Motorsport + 0.419s (120)
3. Lance Stroll CAN Racing Point Force India F1 Team + 0.603s (56)
4. Max Verstappen NED Aston Martin Red Bull Racing + 1.135s (132)
5. Sergio Perez MEX Racing Point Force India F1 Team + 1.164s (67)
6. Lando Norris GBR McLaren F1 Team + 1.375s (136)
7. Nico Hulkenberg GER Renault Sport Formula One Team + 1.977s (128)
8. Pietro Fittipaldi BRA Haas F1 Team + 2.389s (55)
9. Robert Kubica POL Williams Martini Racing + 2.457s (32)
10. George Russell GBR Williams Martini Racing + 2.700s (42)
11. Kimi Raikkonen FIN Alfa Romeo Sauber F1 Team + 3.066s (102)
12. Sean Gelael IDN Red Bull Toro Rosso Honda + 3.623s (150)

Muzzer79

2,498 posts

123 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
As we speak Leclerc is topping the timesheet in Abu Dhabi and is probably close to 100 miles in the 2018 Ferrari if he hasn't exceeded that already.

He has proven to be an adaptable driver, getting on top of the Sauber over the first few races of this season and performing consistently thereafter.

Leclerc has fantastic pedigree including being godson to Jules Bianci so probably has more F1 nous than people expect.

Vettel is especially good in qualifying but I can imagine Leclerc pressuring him quite quickly. How Vettel responds to that is the making of the man. He can't repeat his flounce over Ricciardo.
More comedy gold.


"'Ere! Vettel! Get your cards, you're out. LeClerc has driven less than 50 laps in the car but he's topping the meaningless test session at the end of the season.

What do you mean why are you out? Didn't you know? Old Charlie is godson to Jules Bianchi - you can't hold a candle to a gift like that old son.

In other news, you should know that we're replacing Maurizio Arrivabene with the manager from the local Londis because he's also Stoffel Vandoorne's window cleaner"





HustleRussell

15,460 posts

96 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
HustleRussell said:
Leclerc has fantastic pedigree including being godson to Jules Bianci so probably has more F1 nous than people expect.
WTF difference does that make?!
That’s... a question?

Muzzer79 said:
More comedy gold.


"'Ere! Vettel! Get your cards, you're out. LeClerc has driven less than 50 laps in the car but he's topping the meaningless test session at the end of the season.

What do you mean why are you out? Didn't you know? Old Charlie is godson to Jules Bianchi - you can't hold a candle to a gift like that old son.

In other news, you should know that we're replacing Maurizio Arrivabene with the manager from the local Londis because he's also Stoffel Vandoorne's window cleaner"
Who are you quoting and what is your source?

thegreenhell

4,860 posts

155 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
FourWheelDrift said:
He's finished the Abu Dhabi test quickest :

Day 2 times.
1. Charles Leclerc MON Scuderia Ferrari 1m36.450s
2. Pierre Gasly FRA Aston Martin Red Bull Racing + 1.466s
3. Lance Stroll CAN Racing Point Force India F1 Team + 1.594s
4. Valtteri Bottas FIN Mercedes AMG Petronas Motorsport + 1.998s


Previous Day 1 times
1. Sebastian Vettel GER Scuderia Ferrari 1m36.812s (68 laps)
2. Valtteri Bottas FIN Mercedes AMG Petronas Motorsport + 0.419s (120)
3. Lance Stroll CAN Racing Point Force India F1 Team + 0.603s (56)
4. Max Verstappen NED Aston Martin Red Bull Racing + 1.135s (132)
That young Stroll chap looks quite handy.

Derek Smith

32,036 posts

184 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
super7 said:
Alonso threatened to blackmail the team that they had Ferrari designs on their computers..... McLaren responded by comming clean to the FIA. That got a few people sacked and banned from F1 and ended up with McLaren getting a $100m fine. I can see why they had to let him go and have no idea why they let him back again....

Oh and most of the fine was paid by Mercedes, If I remember.....
What you are saying, then, is that McLaren were fined £100m twice then because your summary bears no relatioship to the one I remember.


Derek Smith

32,036 posts

184 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
The biggest step up for a young driver is into F1. The next biggest is to go from a team from the back of the grid to one at the front. These teams are normally there because of the demands they make of their drivers. One or two prove themselves up for it, many more do not.

Leclerk has been very good this season. Excellent in fact, but next season is going to be the big test. There are a number of drivers who have been in his position who didn't make it. The reason are often obscure.

I remember HH Frentzen, a driver of quality who, in lower formulae, proved himself the equal and sometimes better of Schumacher. He was very good as an F1 driver as well, but not quite good enough. I thought he'd beat MS in F1, as did a number of others, some who knew what they were talking about as well. Whether a driver is that top level, the 1% that makes all the difference, is extremely difficult to predict.

I hope Leclerk is up to it as I want a challenge to Hamilton, and I don't think Vettel is capable. But the odds are against it I'm afraid.