Leclerc, Vettel & Ferrari 2019

Leclerc, Vettel & Ferrari 2019

Author
Discussion

thegreenhell

4,860 posts

155 months

Friday 30th November
quotequote all
This is an interesting and relevant read

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/news/f1/mph-vet...

LDN

5,832 posts

139 months

Friday 30th November
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
This is an interesting and relevant read

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/news/f1/mph-vet...
Good read! Thanks.

Dynamic Space Wizard

310 posts

40 months

Friday 30th November
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
This is an interesting and relevant read

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/news/f1/mph-vet...
"the 21-year-old Monégasque driver..." laugh

The Moose

16,992 posts

145 months

Friday 30th November
quotequote all
To be honest, the lap times are kinda pointless. We jave no idea on what weights the cars are running, engines, engine maps/modes, tire compounds, different fuels, oils etc etc etc So many variables that the real answer will be Q3 in Oz in March.

Derek Smith

32,036 posts

184 months

Friday 30th November
quotequote all
rdjohn said:
Muzzer79 said:
Vettel will be thinking what all the top level drivers think: he is the best driver, next year will be his year and that his team-mate (LeClerc) will be beaten.

You do not get to this level without having the utmost self-belief.
While I wholly agree with you proposition, I did feel that by the end of this season he did seem to be asking himself “What do I have to do, to beat this guy?”

I have believed that Lewis was a cut above the rest when I saw him win GP2. When Ron gave him a chance to prove himself, and he immediately did, I thought he walked on water. But with the great benefit of hindsight, you can now see that Lewis had certain weaknesses, that were seriously challenged by Nico. It was possibly a slight lack of self-belief.

But since the second half of this year, it’s like the back-tattoo proclaims - he has risen up to a new height.

So, I don’t think it will be Vettel that kicks him off that plateau, unless the Mercedes is seriously flawed next year. I do believe that the next world champion will be from the next generation, Ocon, Max, Gasley, or LeClerc.

Max has that same self-belief that Schumacher had, so I think it will be him - but probably not powered by a Honda.

If Vettel is beaten by LeClerc, I think he will probably leave at the end of 2020.
I've been wondering if Sergio Marchionne had something to do with it. He was more than a figurehead. Although I've no evidence, other than the best their is - history - I would assume that there are squabbles going on in the backrooms of Ferrari. It will take it's toll, and of Vettel. Something would appear to have happened to him mid season. Is it a bit of worry about what's happening to Ferrari? It's not something Hamilton has had to concern himself with, apart from 2016 of course. It seems we won't know the full SP about the crossing over of the teams to the other side of the pits until Hamilton's first biography.

I think we might well see a better Vettel next season. LeClerk might well challenge him, but I can't see him wiping the floor with the 4xWDC, at least not in 2019.

I hope not. I doubt the Honda engine will be the panacea for all ills that Horner suggests it will be and the only challenge to Merc will be Ferrari, but not one with internecine squabbling.


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Muzzer79

2,498 posts

123 months

Friday 30th November
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
rdjohn said:
Muzzer79 said:
Vettel will be thinking what all the top level drivers think: he is the best driver, next year will be his year and that his team-mate (LeClerc) will be beaten.

You do not get to this level without having the utmost self-belief.
While I wholly agree with you proposition, I did feel that by the end of this season he did seem to be asking himself “What do I have to do, to beat this guy?”

I have believed that Lewis was a cut above the rest when I saw him win GP2. When Ron gave him a chance to prove himself, and he immediately did, I thought he walked on water. But with the great benefit of hindsight, you can now see that Lewis had certain weaknesses, that were seriously challenged by Nico. It was possibly a slight lack of self-belief.

But since the second half of this year, it’s like the back-tattoo proclaims - he has risen up to a new height.

So, I don’t think it will be Vettel that kicks him off that plateau, unless the Mercedes is seriously flawed next year. I do believe that the next world champion will be from the next generation, Ocon, Max, Gasley, or LeClerc.

Max has that same self-belief that Schumacher had, so I think it will be him - but probably not powered by a Honda.

If Vettel is beaten by LeClerc, I think he will probably leave at the end of 2020.
I've been wondering if Sergio Marchionne had something to do with it. He was more than a figurehead. Although I've no evidence, other than the best their is - history - I would assume that there are squabbles going on in the backrooms of Ferrari. It will take it's toll, and of Vettel. Something would appear to have happened to him mid season. Is it a bit of worry about what's happening to Ferrari? It's not something Hamilton has had to concern himself with, apart from 2016 of course. It seems we won't know the full SP about the crossing over of the teams to the other side of the pits until Hamilton's first biography.

I think we might well see a better Vettel next season. LeClerk might well challenge him, but I can't see him wiping the floor with the 4xWDC, at least not in 2019.

I hope not. I doubt the Honda engine will be the panacea for all ills that Horner suggests it will be and the only challenge to Merc will be Ferrari, but not one with internecine squabbling.

IMO, Vettel was not the same after he binned it in Germany whilst leading.

He REALLY wanted to win at Hockenheim and you could tell that one hurt.

But I still think he’ll put that behind him over the winter and the jury is most definitely still out on LeClerc

rdjohn

3,009 posts

131 months

Saturday 1st December
quotequote all
I think that Kimi’s performance in the same car would have tempered that view.

After Spa, when I thought his Ferrari would kill Lewis’s hope of the title, Seb just seemed to be permanently on the back foot.

Derek Smith

32,036 posts

184 months

Saturday 1st December
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
IMO, Vettel was not the same after he binned it in Germany whilst leading.

He REALLY wanted to win at Hockenheim and you could tell that one hurt.

But I still think he’ll put that behind him over the winter and the jury is most definitely still out on LeClerc
He was triumphant at the British GP, “Grande vittoria qui a casa loro.” A bit nasty I thought, as it was nationalistic and, apparently, a dig at Merc for not being German. After that he seemed to lose judgement more than anything else. He wasn't helped by the team, sacking Kimi on the morning of the Italian GP. That worked out well.

They had the fastest car at times yet he was unable to use that to his advantage. After the British, I thought we'd have a tremendous run into the WDC, with them neck and neck right up to the last race. I still can't see what went wrong. It was almost farcical.


Sa Calobra

27,434 posts

147 months

Saturday 1st December
quotequote all
rdjohn said:
I think that Kimi’s performance in the same car would have tempered that view.

After Spa, when I thought his Ferrari would kill Lewis’s hope of the title, Seb just seemed to be permanently on the back foot.
Lewis turned it up. I said years ago Lewis bins it when pressure goes a certain way. He had a Raw talent and I wondered if it would ever mature (whilst he was still in his talent window).

It has this season.

Leithen

5,173 posts

203 months

Saturday 1st December
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
I've been wondering if Sergio Marchionne had something to do with it.

Well done. I've been banging this drum for months.

Pretty much everyone has been ignoring his loss. Ferrari has only ever succeeded under strong and stable leadership.

You only have to look at the shock in the financial world after Marchionne's death so see how highly regarded he was.

Next year will only be competitive if Elkann appoints someone who can stamp his authority at Maranello and has the intelligence/skills to override the natural backstabbing, gossip, scheming, internal politics etc.

turbomoped

461 posts

19 months

Saturday 1st December
quotequote all
Naturally a panic has begun in the UK based F1 world that they may not have all the brains and ideas in F1 so
there is an attempt to lure Binotto away.

TobyTR

230 posts

82 months

Monday 3rd December
quotequote all
Of the superstar new blood, I can see Leclerc being a multiple WDC. More so than Max.

Sergio Marchionne was the driving force behind Ferrari replacing Raikkonen with him. Such is the belief in his potential and current ability that Leclerc was given a four-year Ferrari contract straight off the bat. That level of commitment in a driver with less than a year's F1 experience at that time is extremely rare.

Sa Calobra

27,434 posts

147 months

Monday 3rd December
quotequote all
It shows how little faith they have in the other new/current drivers.

That's depressing for me. There is no one that is a real talent. Just rich kids.

LDN

5,832 posts

139 months

Monday 3rd December
quotequote all
Sa Calobra said:
It shows how little faith they have in the other new/current drivers.

That's depressing for me. There is no one that is a real talent. Just rich kids.
The overall picture is a good one; Max, Leclerc, Gasly... I think we have some great new talent coming through.

Derek Smith

32,036 posts

184 months

Monday 3rd December
quotequote all
TobyTR said:
Of the superstar new blood, I can see Leclerc being a multiple WDC. More so than Max.

Sergio Marchionne was the driving force behind Ferrari replacing Raikkonen with him. Such is the belief in his potential and current ability that Leclerc was given a four-year Ferrari contract straight off the bat. That level of commitment in a driver with less than a year's F1 experience at that time is extremely rare.
I think the next battles will be between MV and CL, but I don't think it will be 2019. For all the hype, I think that CL might take a time to dominate. Not only that, I've got the feeling that the Honda engine will live up to Horner's expectations and be as much a dog as the Renault.


sparta6

1,075 posts

36 months

Monday 3rd December
quotequote all
LDN said:
The overall picture is a good one; Max, Leclerc, Gasly... I think we have some great new talent coming through.
I agree.
Gasly seems more emotional than Max however.
Not totally surprising given his vintage

FourWheelDrift

75,524 posts

220 months

Monday 3rd December
quotequote all
But then it's all change with the cars too so the racing could be different as well, some teams might get it right some might get it wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCJTf6E4BbY even before you factor in the drivers.

TobyTR

230 posts

82 months

Monday 3rd December
quotequote all
Sa Calobra said:
It shows how little faith they have in the other new/current drivers.

That's depressing for me. There is no one that is a real talent. Just rich kids.
No real talent? Leclerc won GP3 and F2 in his rookie seasons - did you not watch any of those races or him in the Sauber this year?

That's peak PistonHeads guff. Tell the Ferrari top-bods that Leclerc has no real talent... rofl

OFORBES

Original Poster:

72 posts

36 months

Tuesday 4th December
quotequote all
You raise an interesting point, whilst I agree that Leclerc is a major talent, how many drivers on the 2019 grid have paid for themselves to be there rather than be talented enough to get there on talent alone?


HustleRussell

15,460 posts

96 months

Tuesday 4th December
quotequote all
TobyTR said:
Sa Calobra said:
It shows how little faith they have in the other new/current drivers.

That's depressing for me. There is no one that is a real talent. Just rich kids.
That's peak PistonHeads guff.
yes

OFORBES said:
You raise an interesting point
Not really. People love to bash the sport but these criticisms are badly misplaced in the context of the current grid. Pretty much all the drivers bring sponsorship in some form, that doesn’t detract from the fact that the depth of talent throughout the grid is about the greatest it’s ever been.