Arrivederci Arrivebene

Arrivederci Arrivebene

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thegreenhell

Original Poster:

4,924 posts

156 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all

BrettMRC

944 posts

97 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
...I am convinced that if you left Ferrari alone with a big stick, they would beat themselves to death.

StevieBee

7,037 posts

192 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
BrettMRC said:
...I am convinced that if you left Ferrari alone with a big stick, they would beat themselves to death.
Does seem that way.

When you have the fastest car poorly driven (relatively), one needs to look elsewhere for remedy and I don't recall seeing Arrivabene driving into other drivers or binning it into the wall.

turbomoped

524 posts

20 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
Arrivebene was not from a race team background and was way to nice to kimi.
They should do ok this season as lewis has a hubristic year.

LaurasOtherHalf

14,201 posts

133 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
It’s hard to argue with the blunders that cost them last season.

Weakness in management on team orders, strategy, that’s only the stuff we see on TV too.

The whole “we’re Ferrari and we don’t talk to you lot” spat with the media was a farce as well.

To have a car that was proven to be the fastest car for the largest percentage of the season, a clear number one driver and lose the championship 5(?) races before the end of the season.

Someone needs to pay for that in any corporation.
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Megaflow

6,621 posts

162 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
Congratulations to Mercedes & Hamilton on securing the 2019 championships...

hehe

Bright Halo

520 posts

172 months

Monday 7th January
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I hope his replacement is a bit more approachable for interviews.

Derek Smith

32,284 posts

185 months

Monday 7th January
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BrettMRC said:
...I am convinced that if you left Ferrari alone with a big stick, they would beat themselves to death.
That's the best summation of Ferrari in a sentence I've ever read.


aeropilot

16,764 posts

164 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
BrettMRC said:
...I am convinced that if you left Ferrari alone with a big stick, they would beat themselves to death.
That's the best summation of Ferrari in a sentence I've ever read.
yes

Lets face it, the only time in the past 40-45 years that Ferrari have been at the top of the tree was when it was being controlled by the combined efforts of a Frenchman, an Englishman and a German......



LaurasOtherHalf

14,201 posts

133 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
aeropilot said:
Derek Smith said:
BrettMRC said:
...I am convinced that if you left Ferrari alone with a big stick, they would beat themselves to death.
That's the best summation of Ferrari in a sentence I've ever read.
yes

Lets face it, the only time in the past 40-45 years that Ferrari have been at the top of the tree was when it was being controlled by the combined efforts of a Frenchman, an Englishman and a German......
And Luca?

Enricogto

620 posts

82 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
BrettMRC said:
...I am convinced that if you left Ferrari alone with a big stick, they would beat themselves to death.
That's the best summation of Ferrari in a sentence I've ever read.
Life’s a bit easier when you’re not the most successful team in the history of the sport and you’ve been among the top 5 teams for 60 years...

Kraken

632 posts

137 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
Take the Brawn era out and Ferrari have always been this way.

williamp

16,258 posts

210 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
And Luca?
Luca Badoer didnt add much... paperbag

OFORBES

121 posts

37 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
williamp said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
And Luca?
Luca Badoer didnt add much... paperbag
^^^^ laugh


Jesus. More changes in there. I think he did a great job. And failure to win either title in 2018 was not his fault. I think he has done the best job since the days of Brawn in getting them into shape, a few less mistakes from Vettel last year and they could have been much closer or even beaten Mercedes to it.

I reckon they will change this again part way through next season if they don't instantly see massive improvements in results

bakerstreet

3,928 posts

102 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
BrettMRC said:
...I am convinced that if you left Ferrari alone with a big stick, they would beat themselves to death.
Surely that phrase is well suited to McLaren as well?

LaurasOtherHalf

14,201 posts

133 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
OFORBES said:
Jesus. More changes in there. I think he did a great job. And failure to win either title in 2018 was not his fault. I think he has done the best job since the days of Brawn in getting them into shape, a few less mistakes from Vettel last year and they could have been much closer or even beaten Mercedes to it.

I reckon they will change this again part way through next season if they don't instantly see massive improvements in results
That’s an interesting counter argument to my post, care to expand on it?

I agree VET made serious errors but at hockenheim you could argue they placed undue pressure on VET by dithering on swapping him with RAI, they ballsed up the tow strategy for Monza so qualified RAI ahead, before sacking him right when they needed him to work for the team, then mucked up the tyre choices for both Suzuka and Brazil qualifying which again put the screws on their No1 driver.

Now, I could argue quite simply that every one of those mistakes could come down to Arrivebene’s poor choices.

Yes VET crumbled when he needed to be strong but the team put him in the position to fail.

I’d imagine he’s a great guy to have a pint and a fag with but he has no place in top line sport management. IMHO.

OFORBES

121 posts

37 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
OFORBES said:
Jesus. More changes in there. I think he did a great job. And failure to win either title in 2018 was not his fault. I think he has done the best job since the days of Brawn in getting them into shape, a few less mistakes from Vettel last year and they could have been much closer or even beaten Mercedes to it.

I reckon they will change this again part way through next season if they don't instantly see massive improvements in results
That’s an interesting counter argument to my post, care to expand on it?

I agree VET made serious errors but at hockenheim you could argue they placed undue pressure on VET by dithering on swapping him with RAI, they ballsed up the tow strategy for Monza so qualified RAI ahead, before sacking him right when they needed him to work for the team, then mucked up the tyre choices for both Suzuka and Brazil qualifying which again put the screws on their No1 driver.

Now, I could argue quite simply that every one of those mistakes could come down to Arrivebene’s poor choices.

Yes VET crumbled when he needed to be strong but the team put him in the position to fail.

I’d imagine he’s a great guy to have a pint and a fag with but he has no place in top line sport management. IMHO.
It wasn't necessarily a counter argument, more of an observation of other contributing factors.

Whilst I believed (and deep down wanted) Ferrari to win both titles in 2018 it wasn't meant to be. Apologies, I didn't expand further on my post after saying Vettel made mistakes, the teams strategists made more than a couple as you rightly point out..

Whilst perhaps its not directly Arrivebene's fault for these mistakes, be it driver, mechanic, strategist, ultimately as Team Principle it falls at his feet for responsibility.

It's a shame. I liked him. He was Ferrari through and through from a young age, so whilst he might not have been totally at ease or experienced at the top line of sport management, not many other people would have known Ferrari internal workings better.

He didn't do many interviews, but the ones he did, the passion for Ferrari shone through...

LaurasOtherHalf

14,201 posts

133 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
OFORBES said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
OFORBES said:
Jesus. More changes in there. I think he did a great job. And failure to win either title in 2018 was not his fault. I think he has done the best job since the days of Brawn in getting them into shape, a few less mistakes from Vettel last year and they could have been much closer or even beaten Mercedes to it.

I reckon they will change this again part way through next season if they don't instantly see massive improvements in results
That’s an interesting counter argument to my post, care to expand on it?

I agree VET made serious errors but at hockenheim you could argue they placed undue pressure on VET by dithering on swapping him with RAI, they ballsed up the tow strategy for Monza so qualified RAI ahead, before sacking him right when they needed him to work for the team, then mucked up the tyre choices for both Suzuka and Brazil qualifying which again put the screws on their No1 driver.

Now, I could argue quite simply that every one of those mistakes could come down to Arrivebene’s poor choices.

Yes VET crumbled when he needed to be strong but the team put him in the position to fail.

I’d imagine he’s a great guy to have a pint and a fag with but he has no place in top line sport management. IMHO.
It wasn't necessarily a counter argument, more of an observation of other contributing factors.

Whilst I believed (and deep down wanted) Ferrari to win both titles in 2018 it wasn't meant to be. Apologies, I didn't expand further on my post after saying Vettel made mistakes, the teams strategists made more than a couple as you rightly point out..

Whilst perhaps its not directly Arrivebene's fault for these mistakes, be it driver, mechanic, strategist, ultimately as Team Principle it falls at his feet for responsibility.

It's a shame. I liked him. He was Ferrari through and through from a young age, so whilst he might not have been totally at ease or experienced at the top line of sport management, not many other people would have known Ferrari internal workings better.

He didn't do many interviews, but the ones he did, the passion for Ferrari shone through...
Arrivebene was chiefly a Phillip Morris executive before Ferrari, he only worked at the scuderia from 2014. He worked with the F1 Commission from 2010 but I'm not sure where you get the idea he was ingrained in the team for years?

As I say, he may have great experience of sitting on a board and of advertising but as a team coach, sports manager or team leader he was an abject novice. It showed.

OFORBES

121 posts

37 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
OFORBES said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
OFORBES said:
Jesus. More changes in there. I think he did a great job. And failure to win either title in 2018 was not his fault. I think he has done the best job since the days of Brawn in getting them into shape, a few less mistakes from Vettel last year and they could have been much closer or even beaten Mercedes to it.

I reckon they will change this again part way through next season if they don't instantly see massive improvements in results
That’s an interesting counter argument to my post, care to expand on it?

I agree VET made serious errors but at hockenheim you could argue they placed undue pressure on VET by dithering on swapping him with RAI, they ballsed up the tow strategy for Monza so qualified RAI ahead, before sacking him right when they needed him to work for the team, then mucked up the tyre choices for both Suzuka and Brazil qualifying which again put the screws on their No1 driver.

Now, I could argue quite simply that every one of those mistakes could come down to Arrivebene’s poor choices.

Yes VET crumbled when he needed to be strong but the team put him in the position to fail.

I’d imagine he’s a great guy to have a pint and a fag with but he has no place in top line sport management. IMHO.
It wasn't necessarily a counter argument, more of an observation of other contributing factors.

Whilst I believed (and deep down wanted) Ferrari to win both titles in 2018 it wasn't meant to be. Apologies, I didn't expand further on my post after saying Vettel made mistakes, the teams strategists made more than a couple as you rightly point out..

Whilst perhaps its not directly Arrivebene's fault for these mistakes, be it driver, mechanic, strategist, ultimately as Team Principle it falls at his feet for responsibility.

It's a shame. I liked him. He was Ferrari through and through from a young age, so whilst he might not have been totally at ease or experienced at the top line of sport management, not many other people would have known Ferrari internal workings better.

He didn't do many interviews, but the ones he did, the passion for Ferrari shone through...
Arrivebene was chiefly a Phillip Morris executive before Ferrari, he only worked at the scuderia from 2014. He worked with the F1 Commission from 2010 but I'm not sure where you get the idea he was ingrained in the team for years?

As I say, he may have great experience of sitting on a board and of advertising but as a team coach, sports manager or team leader he was an abject novice. It showed.
You are right, apologies. I am sure that I watched an interview with him where he was talking about his life long affiliation and working with Ferrari. Either way, whilst I personally don't blame him totally for their performance, he is ultimately responsible.

tigerkoi

2,328 posts

135 months

Monday 7th January
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
...Weakness in management on team orders, strategy....to have a car that was proven to be the fastest car for the largest percentage of the season, a clear number one driver and lose the championship 5(?) races before the end of the season.

Someone needs to pay for that in any corporation.
I think you’re spot on in this and subsequent comments.

Arrivabene has had a fair crack of the whip, and as in any other high performance industry, you get your arse booted out if you hand in results like that.

I really wanted Ferrari to nail it this year. But to bugger it up after a good start - unforgivable.