Williams F1

Williams F1

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Galileo

Original Poster:

3,099 posts

163 months

Monday 18th February
quotequote all
Is this the beginning of the end for Williams F1?

Taking on a driver who has no chance of getting back to as good as he used to be.
Loosing a massive sponsor like Martini.
Not getting the car to testing.

I fear that this could be the end of Williams F1 as we know it.

I can’t see them surviving to next season without the help of a manufacturer who wants to get into F1 for cheap.

I believe poor Frank has to turn up to work everyday because he can see it going hell without him. I’m pretty sure he’d rather be at home watching them get podiums on a Sunday.

HustleRussell

16,786 posts

105 months

Monday 18th February
quotequote all
It's day one of pre-season testing. Get a grip.

MiniMan64

12,002 posts

135 months

Monday 18th February
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
It's day one of pre-season testing. Get a grip.
I think that’s one part of a much more drastic slide though. Can you see then getting off the back of the grid any time soon?

HustleRussell

16,786 posts

105 months

Monday 18th February
quotequote all
MiniMan64 said:
HustleRussell said:
It's day one of pre-season testing. Get a grip.
I think that’s one part of a much more drastic slide though. Can you see then getting off the back of the grid any time soon?
In my view Williams have consistently underperformed for as long as I’ve been watching the sport.

Until recently they had true minnow teams under them to spare their blushes.

More recently they experienced a brief blip while they enjoyed a massive power unit advantage.

With the minnows gone and the engines equalising they are exposed.

MondeoMan1981

2,188 posts

128 months

Monday 18th February
quotequote all
It's worrying for them.

You'd hope they could at least perform at Force India's level of the last few years but nothing like it.

Have Rokit paid anything up yet? Have they actually sold any phones?

Worrying seeing one of the sport's iconic teams in a very uncertain position.

Hub

4,291 posts

143 months

Monday 18th February
quotequote all
From Andrew Benson on BBC -

"Insiders say it (2019 car) is projected to be at least two seconds slower than last year's car, which was already the slowest in F1"

Oh dear.

tigerkoi

2,927 posts

143 months

Monday 18th February
quotequote all
MondeoMan1981 said:
It's worrying for them.

You'd hope they could at least perform at Force India's level of the last few years but nothing like it.

Have Rokit paid anything up yet? Have they actually sold any phones?

Worrying seeing one of the sport's iconic teams in a very uncertain position.
Is it? I personally don’t find it too worrying, myself.

After all this is sport. It’s competition. Winners win, and losers get their asses beat! If Williams actually ends up in an even more dire situation than it is currently, well so be it. There’s no immutability here. Things fail in life and business, and when they do, more often than not you can draw a line from that end state to all the poor decisions made by those in charge over a period of time.

RokIt. RokIt.....what can you say? I’d love to see how that deal is structured. If RokIt have paid out for a full season then it’s hard to see who’s any good at business in that equation. I mean, imagine that: all that advertising for something that may never exist. You can see where Billy McFarland went wrong hehe

I’ve tried with a straight face to listen to those who’ve said that the standards set by the FIA, Liberty and the rest are unimpeachable as regards sponsors and their credibility/feasibility. But then I break into laughter.




ukaskew

5,197 posts

166 months

Monday 18th February
quotequote all
Even when Williams were the best of the rest a few seasons ago they seemingly always found a way to trip themselves up. Certainly some fundamental issues there.

I wouldn't read too much into the sponsorship stuff though, pretty much every team is struggling in that respect, and if I recall the Martini deal was actually pretty small considering the exposure they got.

C Lee Farquar

2,501 posts

161 months

Monday 18th February
quotequote all
MondeoMan1981 said:
It's worrying for them.

You'd hope they could at least perform at Force India's level of the last few years but nothing like it.
The other side of this is that FI were racing with money they didn't have, went into administration and the owners lost the team. Meanwhile FW made an £8m profit.



The Vambo

3,749 posts

86 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
Galileo said:
Is this the beginning of the end for Williams F1?
How can this be the beginning of the end after last season?

Edited by The Vambo on Tuesday 19th February 01:04

DanielSan

14,355 posts

112 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
William's are quite simply the new Tyrrell.

Bradgate

2,149 posts

92 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
It’s sad to see. Williams have gone backwards at an alarming rate over the past few seasons, particularly as they have had the huge advantage of the best power unit. The contrast with FI has been stark and embarrassing for Williams.

I really hope the get their act together, but the problems in the team appear to be structural. At the risk of sounding insensitive, you wonder if it will be possible to make the fundamental changes necessary while Sir Frank is still nominally in charge.

Galileo

Original Poster:

3,099 posts

163 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
It's day one of pre-season testing. Get a grip.
Shush now, the Adults are have legitimate discussion.

tigerkoi

2,927 posts

143 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
Bradgate said:
It’s sad to see. Williams have gone backwards at an alarming rate over the past few seasons, particularly as they have had the huge advantage of the best power unit. The contrast with FI has been stark and embarrassing for Williams.

I really hope the get their act together, but the problems in the team appear to be structural. At the risk of sounding insensitive, you wonder if it will be possible to make the fundamental changes necessary while Sir Frank is still nominally in charge.
I made a similar point months back on another thread: with Frank still alive the whole enterprise is in a bit of limbo. It’s an existential business crisis.

Yes, the decision to bring on Lowe and give him shareholder status, or take the money of Stroll, or grub around and take sponsorship off companies that have next to no status will happen. But whilst he’s alive and his name is above the door, then a controlling share - and corresponding direction - will be in his hands (proxy Claire).

He’s often stated that the racing is his life, so on that basis he won’t give up his baby and if things roll to a halt, he’d rather be in the ground than be out of the game with someone else running what was his team. Just the way the guy is...

Best thing that could happen to Williams is Frank recognising that if he found another Toto Wolff, give him strong equity stake, tell Claire to step back, and entrust that someone else’s professional drive will do more than he and his family can right now.

Then again, the old man might just be a phlegmatic sort. His kids are likely to be reasonably well off regardless of whatever the company is worth, and he probably doesn’t give a fig about ‘legacy’. So while he’s alive he just wants to build cars and race them. And if the whole thing dies with him, well, so what? At least he was doing what he wanted to do. Maybe he’s just living for today and season to season.

groomi

9,194 posts

188 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
Bradgate said:
It’s sad to see. Williams have gone backwards at an alarming rate over the past few seasons, particularly as they have had the huge advantage of the best power unit. The contrast with FI has been stark and embarrassing for Williams.

I really hope the get their act together, but the problems in the team appear to be structural. At the risk of sounding insensitive, you wonder if it will be possible to make the fundamental changes necessary while Sir Frank is still nominally in charge.
The thing that struck me about 3 or 4 seasons ago, when they were occasionally getting front row starts, was that they seemed to be relieved to be up the sharp end and content with a good points finish. Their strategies and demeanour seemed to lack any ambition to actually risk going for the win. I think it was Hungary and Britain that season in particular I thought it.

TheDeuce

2,776 posts

11 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
Beginning of the end? Well... You could almost say that Williams is business run out of passion more than to make money/succeed, so I guess it depends how long they can bankroll these kind of screw ups...

And thinking about it how late the car will likely be... Given the time it takes to transport it to track, It's not gonna be there tomorrow. It would have had to leave the factory already and I'm pretty sure they would have announced that to get everyone off their backs (or to stop people laughing at them). So if we assume it could arrive Thursday... I think in that position they will just say lets give up on week one and benefit from the extra 2 days work time we would have due to the weekend, and aim to be on the track for Monday. I expect the next press statement they put out will say Monday.

It is certainly very disappointing to be so late. The other 'budget limited' teams have all arrived on time and also all shown genuine improvements in power/reliability so far. Huge improvements in fact. I imagine the mood at Williams HQ is very dark right now. Not at all helped as whatever problems they are battling with, they must be seeing the significant performance improvement their competitors have made.


Teddy Lop

1,584 posts

12 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
Galileo said:
I believe poor Frank has to turn up to work everyday because he can see it going hell without him. I’m pretty sure he’d rather be at home watching them get podiums on a Sunday.
I'm more of the suspicion that frank hanging around - never mind refusing to fully relinquish the reins, he can't leave the day to day running - might be more the actual problem. Maybe that's why Toto got out when he did.

Fundoreen

868 posts

28 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
such a load of rubbish spoken about how this signals something apocalyptic.
If you had a choice of doing something right or rushing out half baked with a car that wouldn't even be the one you end up with in Aus it looks sensible.
Sky's band of idiots keen for a headline fuel this sort of thing but I guess they feel indignant that they decided to turn up at last and williams didn't.
Imagine the manpower diverted from getting the car finished if they decided to show up and run a old spec car just to please the easily pleased.

TheDeuce

2,776 posts

11 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
Fundoreen said:
such a load of rubbish spoken about how this signals something apocalyptic.
If you had a choice of doing something right or rushing out half baked with a car that wouldn't even be the one you end up with in Aus it looks sensible.
Sky's band of idiots keen for a headline fuel this sort of thing but I guess they feel indignant that they decided to turn up at last and williams didn't.
Imagine the manpower diverted from getting the car finished if they decided to show up and run a old spec car just to please the easily pleased.
What do you mean turn up with an old spec car? The old spec car wouldn't meet regs, it isn't even an option.

It signals that they lost control of their schedule, that's all. Is that a big deal? Well no not really, in day to day life. When you're delivering a multi million pound gamble like an F1 car, it's certainly more of a big deal.

I don't think any of us should claim the delay isn't a big deal, when the knock on effect is that they will almost certainly miss the first week of practice. That will hurt them one way or another, and for them personally I'm sure is a very big deal.

I agree with not mocking/gloating, or being demanding. But I think it's reasonable to discuss these things - it's a sport that demands a lot of discussion in general really.

thegreenhell

6,105 posts

164 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
groomi said:
The thing that struck me about 3 or 4 seasons ago, when they were occasionally getting front row starts, was that they seemed to be relieved to be up the sharp end and content with a good points finish. Their strategies and demeanour seemed to lack any ambition to actually risk going for the win. I think it was Hungary and Britain that season in particular I thought it.
Was it the British GP where they started P3 and P4, jumped both Mercs at the start to run P1 and P2 for the first half of the race, then through poorly executed pitstops and strategy ended up P4 and P5 at the finish?