Williams F1

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DanielSan

13,933 posts

108 months

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
Deesee said:
Lebo44 said:
Petrus1983 said:
Latifi is around .8sec off RKs qualifying lap from Saturday at the moment. Ironically that puts him closer to RK than RK was to GR.

Eta - does he have a superlicense?
He does not have a license yet. But he will get one by 2020.

Also - he is backed by huge money. He could probably buy in into better team than Williams.
Isn’t his dad the McLaren shareholder?
If I remember rightly it was stated that his dad buying a stake in Mclaren had nothing to do with getting him in the car, it's purely a case that a guy with a big stack of cash has seen McLaren's road car side growing and spotted a good way to make his big stack of cash even bigger. As crap a position as they've been in they're still not financially screwed enough to need a driver whose purely there to bring money.

Car-Matt

1,724 posts

79 months

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
Lebo44 said:
Lebo44 said:
He does not have a license yet. But he will get one by 2020.

Also - he is backed by huge money. He could probably buy in into better team than Williams.
Btw Kubica had something around 1:20,8 in FP1 on the same tyres as Latifi (C2).
Absolutely no chance of you making any meaning comparison without knowing track and ambient temps, fuel loads, car spec, engine modes etc etc.......

Still if it keeps you happy lol

Lebo44

40 posts

1 month

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
Car-Matt said:
Absolutely no chance of you making any meaning comparison without knowing track and ambient temps, fuel loads, car spec, engine modes etc etc.......
True,

but someone mentioned that "Latifi is around .8sec off RKs qualifying lap from Saturday at the moment." so I brought RK's time in FP1 on the same tyres as a little better comparison

Car-Matt

1,724 posts

79 months

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
Lebo44 said:
Car-Matt said:
Absolutely no chance of you making any meaning comparison without knowing track and ambient temps, fuel loads, car spec, engine modes etc etc.......
True,

but someone mentioned that "Latifi is around .8sec off RKs qualifying lap from Saturday at the moment." so I brought RK's time in FP1 on the same tyres as a little better comparison
Without the other data and a reliable method of making time corrections based on the differences your 'little better' is little better than waving a candle round in space and expecting to light up the secrets of the universe to be frank

Lebo44

40 posts

1 month

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
Car-Matt said:
Without the other data and a reliable method of making time corrections based on the differences your 'little better' is little better than waving a candle round in space and expecting to light up the secrets of the universe to be frank
Why so serious? I just provided the numbers for reference, not suggesting anything


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janesmith1950

2,821 posts

36 months

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
It's pretty obvious to anyone paying attention that Kubica is significantly slower than George Russell. Without taking anything away from the rookie, I don't believe he is considered the second coming any more than other regular rookies have done (as opposed to Hamilton/Alonso/Vettel/Verstappen level drivers).

In any team competing for positions (rather than simply who is last and next to last), Kubica's pack of speed would be untenable, funding aside.

It would have been nice to have a fairy tale for RK, however that's not how it is. He's in a slow car, and considerably slower than his team mate. He should leave with his head held high, nothing ventured nothing gained.

Lebo44

40 posts

1 month

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
janesmith1950 said:
In any team competing for positions (rather than simply who is last and next to last), Kubica's pack of speed would be untenable, funding aside.
Can you explain why in China/Bahrain there is 0.05 and 0.04 sec difference between GR and RK in quals while in Spain/Australia there is 1.2 sec? Or why RK had better time in FP1 (adjusted for tyres) than in his quals in Barcelona?

Quite a variation in RK's performance, isn't it?

janesmith1950

2,821 posts

36 months

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
Lebo44 said:
Can you explain why in China/Bahrain there is 0.05 and 0.04 sec difference between GR and RK in quals while in Spain/Australia there is 1.2 sec? Or why RK had better time in FP1 (adjusted for tyres) than in his quals in Barcelona?

Quite a variation in RK's performance, isn't it?
Can you explain how many points you get for practice and qualifying?

Can you justify how, despite more chassis swaps than a Bradford chop'n'shop, KR is miles behind GR in every race.

I don't want to be down on RK, he was an exciting driver in his day and fate intervened, however he's not up to it now and he's only there because, to Williams for now at least, they'd be at the back even if Jimi Clark were at the wheel.

Lebo44

40 posts

1 month

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
janesmith1950 said:
He should leave with his head held high, nothing ventured nothing gained.
This one I don't understand. Do you prefer to replace people who get into F1 and built their reputation from scratch with rich kids backed by money?

I'm aware that results are important but there are still 15 races this season. Things can change for RK and for Williams. Williams is last second season in a row but no-one is saying that they should give up.



Frimley111R

9,575 posts

175 months

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
Lebo44 said:
I'm aware that results are important but there are still 15 races this season.
Indeed but this is F1 and there is no way that they will do anything other than get slightly more competitive with the second slowest team at best. The season is dead in the water already.

janesmith1950

2,821 posts

36 months

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
Lebo44 said:
This one I don't understand. Do you prefer to replace people who get into F1 and built their reputation from scratch with rich kids backed by money?

I'm aware that results are important but there are still 15 races this season. Things can change for RK and for Williams. Williams is last second season in a row but no-one is saying that they should give up.
I don't care how rich drivers' parents are, however it's worth pointing out it's unlikely RK would be on the grid without his 8 figure contribution. I'd rather F1 was the 20 best drivers on the planet.

Lebo44

40 posts

1 month

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
janesmith1950 said:
Can you justify how, despite more chassis swaps than a Bradford chop'n'shop, KR is miles behind GR in every race.
I cannot explain why RK is soo way behind GR for the same reasons I cannot explain why Williams is soo way behind other teams.

But the results show that's impossible for RK and for Williams to be soo way behind others without a fundamental issue. In case of RK it can be issue with him or with his car. Cannot just simply agree that RK is an old, handicapped complainer after looking at his all results after the return in 2017 which where in most cases decent and comparable with regulars.

janesmith1950

2,821 posts

36 months

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
Why not? That's what the evidence (race results) suggests.

Lebo44

40 posts

1 month

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
janesmith1950 said:
Why not? That's what the evidence (race results) suggests.
Evidence show that there are still 16 races. Let's give him a chance to prove he is still worth something. Besides he still has valid contract and I doubt he will be replaced in 2019.

Dr Jekyll

16,794 posts

202 months

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
Has any F1 team in the past come last consecutively so many times?

TheDeuce

1,423 posts

7 months

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
Lebo44 said:
janesmith1950 said:
Why not? That's what the evidence (race results) suggests.
Evidence show that there are still 16 races. Let's give him a chance to prove he is still worth something. Besides he still has valid contract and I doubt he will be replaced in 2019.
I agree not to judge too soon but...

If it were any other driver I feel they would be judged by now. Absolute certainty that he's slower than GR is impossible to ever get, no matter how many races he competes in, it's always technically possible that if he's slowest in the first 10 he could be fastest in the next 10 races.

I do think we've already seen enough to make a pretty fair conclusion though already though. It's not just five races either, it's 5 races + practice and quali isn't it? Except for incidents that have swung the result, but I don't think I've ever seen him being 'faster' in any session.

OnePaceRunner

95 posts

1 month

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
...and round we go... seriously getting boring now.

KR is slower than Russell
Williams have no money because Frank & Co
Williams has now become a pay & drive team
Williams development is poor


Tyre Smoke

11,471 posts

202 months

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
OnePaceRunner said:
...and round we go... seriously getting boring now.

KR is slower than Russell
Williams have no money because Frank & Co
Williams has now become a pay & drive team
Williams development is poor
Kimi Raikonnen is definitely NOT slower than George Russell.

Mr_Thyroid

1,667 posts

168 months

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
Dr Jekyll said:
Has any F1 team in the past come last consecutively so many times?
Yes.

HRT - 9 races in 2012 (up to and including the Britich GP)

Forti were very slow in 1995. So slow in fact that in Argentina and San Marino they were still running but not classified (according to wiki).

In 94 Pacific either failed to qualify or double retired from every GP.

At least Williams are reliable. At least they seemed to be closer in Spain.

TheDeuce

1,423 posts

7 months

Tuesday 14th May
quotequote all
Mr_Thyroid said:
Yes.

HRT - 9 races in 2012 (up to and including the Britich GP)

Forti were very slow in 1995. So slow in fact that in Argentina and San Marino they were still running but not classified (according to wiki).

In 94 Pacific either failed to qualify or double retired from every GP.

At least Williams are reliable. At least they seemed to be closer in Spain.
I genuinely expect Williams will easily exceed HRT in 2012. Also, I don't think HRT placed last/second from last 9 times consecutively? Too tired to dig into it but I think they were occasionally away from stone dead last.

I think the truth is, the Williams is 3-5 seconds off the pace at each race, because it's a budget race car. It exists to not exceed 107%, consistently. They must have known long before we did that it wasn't going to be competitive. As a result, it will be consistently not competitive - so I do expect it will set one of the longest last place runs we have seen by the end of the season. Specifically, RK might be in with a chance of setting a personally unwanted record in terms of absolute last place finishes. Not that he hasn't already won in the game of life purely by finding his way back into an F1 and all the effort that must have taken.

Anyway, Williams needed a car that could complete a season. They have that. In effect, their bills are paid for 2019 whilst they try and figure out what can be done to become vaguely competitive for the future.