Williams F1

[marine boy]

IN51GHT said:

As a brief respite from the doom & gloom people are spreading here, my daughter started a 4 year composites apprenticeship with the team today. There is obviously positivity from within the team for them to be making plans for the future.

Very well done to her, she must be very bright!!

Are you sure you're her real dad?

[TheDeuce]

I'm just gonna put this here as a prediction for the near future..

I expect Williams will change ownership ahead of the 2021 season. Given the value they have already lost and the value that would be gaiined by certain other teams buying a 'b-team' prior to 2021, it would be the best last chance to get a decent price imo.

[C Lee Farquar]

As long as Frank is alive I predict the Williams family will retain in excess of 50% ownership, I think Red Bull, Mercedes and Renault are more likely to go.

Difficult times but Frank is an exceptional man.

Time will tell

[TheDeuce]

C Lee Farquar said:

As long as Frank is alive I predict the Williams family will retain in excess of 50% ownership, I think Red Bull, Mercedes and Renault are more likely to go.

Difficult times but Frank is an exceptional man.

Time will tell

True about the other teams likely to 'want' to go sooner perhaps.

In the end, the reality is that Williams are starting to leak money and anyone interested in propping them up is going to want control in return for their investment. They need massive investment to get back on top at this point. No way will that happen without the investors taking control.

It's Frank's passion that has retained control thus far, I agree completely. But in the end it's a company, not a possession. He will at some point have to either sell or orchastrate the most unbelievable turnaround ever - unlikely given their massive overheads and tiny budget.

[DanielSan]

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[n3il123]

DanielSan said:

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[DanielSan]

n3il123 said:

DanielSan said:

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Posted in wrong thread and deleting wouldn't work for some reason

[shtu]

TheDeuce said:

I've no real concern of the team/business collapsing though. In the end, if the cash dries up and it becomes inoperable, they will have no option but to sell. Hello Mercedes b team... Goodbye Claire.

With the news this week that McLaren are becoming a Mercedes customer again, why would they bother also buying (probably less than half of) the F1 Clown Car Team?

[TheDeuce]

shtu said:

TheDeuce said:

I've no real concern of the team/business collapsing though. In the end, if the cash dries up and it becomes inoperable, they will have no option but to sell. Hello Mercedes b team... Goodbye Claire.

With the news this week that McLaren are becoming a Mercedes customer again, why would they bother also buying (probably less than half of) the F1 Clown Car Team?

Because McLaren won't ever be a Mercedes b team. If they had a controlling stake in a team such as Williams, they can use it as a b team. When the cost caps come in, any big team with a subservient b team has twice the budget in play each season - giving them a significant advantage in terms of R&D and testing new parts etc. RB have used TR that way for years. With the cost caps Mercedes need the same setup.

If Williams go to the wall they will have to sell a significant stake to re-capitalise the team, nobody is going to hand over that level of money if they can't control the team and use it for their own interests. Even if it wasn't for the desire to have a b team - who would put in the money and leave the current combo of Frank and Claire in charge? So long as Frank is in charge, he will leave Claire running the day to day operations and the reality is that no one other than Frank would look at her track record and agree that she was the correct person for that role. Even she has questioned her own ability.

[C Lee Farquar]

If Mercedes had any serious ambition have a B team why did they show no interest in Force India?

They could have had two wind tunnels in Brackley and a second factory at Silverstone.

Also the Williams parent company is still in profit, although I assume they'll need to find lots of hats with rabbits in to maintain that.

[TheDeuce]

C Lee Farquar said:

If Mercedes had any serious ambition have a B team why did they show no interest in Force India?

They could have had two wind tunnels in Brackley and a second factory at Silverstone.

Also the Williams parent company is still in profit, although I assume they'll need to find lots of hats with rabbits in to maintain that.

Timing, possibly - or any number of other reasons. I'm not saying that a teams 'b-team' suitability is the only factor. Maybe Mercedes aren't interested in Williams at all, who can know? But, back to point I believe it is true that Mercedes will benefit from a b-team when the cost caps come in (assuming they remain in F1), and also I believe it is true that Williams has passed the point of no return so far as the possibility of a self resourced turn-around goes, and will at some point need fresh money - a lot of it, to pay to re-capitalise the team, improve their operation and sustain the team for a couple of years in order to start attracting big sponsors again. Essentially a financial reset - as has happened when other teams have changed hands.

[TheDeuce]

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.driver-...

My take on this; Latifi is the obvious choice based on performance. However, driver performance is irrelevant in a car that can't carry any driver to points (ignoring Kubica's single point, which I would argue was carried back down the grid to him..).

It makes complete sense to me that they would leave it to the last minute to sign Latifi, no one else will now and there is always the possibility that a billionaire might emerge last minute and give them £20m to buy his son a seat. In their position, it makes sense to leave that door open, I get it.

Sadly that also suggests that they are indeed expecting to be way off pace yet again next year, if they had anything to bring, they would sign the obvious driver ASAP. In other words, another 'keeping our foot in the door' season of F1 for Williams, the third in a row.

Does anyone have a more rosy perspective of this than I do? I'd love to be convinced otherwise. Claire's explanation in the above linked article is as unconvincing as ever.

EDIT: I'm aware I was the last poster before this post.. But I saw the article and thought I'd resurrect this thread - quite surprised to have to dig through 3 pages of the F1 forum to find it hasn't had a single comment in over a month..

Edited by TheDeuce on Thursday 7th November 23:18

[mcdk2]

TheDeuce said:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.driver-...
(ignoring Kubica's single point, which I would argue was carried back down the grid to him..).

Edited by TheDeuce on Thursday 7th November 23:18

Indeed, Kubica's point was an utter fluke. Russell has absolutely trounced him.

[mk1coopers]

I think the thread hasn't had much activity because there has been little or no improvement in the situation / very limited coverage of the team during race weekends, I would love to see them starting to turn things around next year, but I suspect they will be in a holding pattern until 2021 hoping that the regulation changes might level the playing field, I doubt that it will.

[sgtBerbatov]

IN51GHT said:

As a brief respite from the doom & gloom people are spreading here, my daughter started a 4 year composites apprenticeship with the team today. There is obviously positivity from within the team for them to be making plans for the future.

I envy young people who get the chance to work in F1 like this. Congrats to you and the daughter.

[TheDeuce]

mk1coopers said:

I think the thread hasn't had much activity because there has been little or no improvement in the situation / very limited coverage of the team during race weekends, I would love to see them starting to turn things around next year, but I suspect they will be in a holding pattern until 2021 hoping that the regulation changes might level the playing field, I doubt that it will.

That's my feeling too. And even if the changes do level the field (a little..) then I don't see how Williams can reach that level even.

[DanielSan]

TheDeuce said:

That's my feeling too. And even if the changes do level the field (a little..) then I don't see how Williams can reach that level even.

Well they've already built a car with 60% less aero than the rest of the field.

[rdjohn]

I know a guy with a Motorsport degree who is having the time of his life.

Rising through a mid-grid team very quickly after just 1-year. At 25, he is on £60k and everything provided from the moment he walks out of his home.

At 8, he really wanted to be a WRC mechanic - this certainly beats lying on you back in an unheated and cramped compound.

F1 is a beacon of success in a fairly moribund UK economy.

[DOCG]

rdjohn said:

I know a guy with a Motorsport degree who is having the time of his life.

Rising through a mid-grid team very quickly after just 1-year. At 25, he is on £60k and everything provided from the moment he walks out of his home.

At 8, he really wanted to be a WRC mechanic - this certainly beats lying on you back in an unheated and cramped compound.

F1 is a beacon of success in a fairly moribund UK economy.

Moribund relative to what? Real GDP growth is in-line with other developed economies.

[Petrus1983]

I was just reading that Christian Horner believes 2020 will be the most expensive season yet - with basically a 2020 team, and a 2021 advanced team operating at the same time before the budget cap comes in. I highly doubt Williams will have the budget to operate at that kinda level so will be on the back foot again going into 2021.