Discussion
HustleRussell said:
Whatever you think of Ticktum, he’s quick- and I see no downside for Williams having a quick driver in the simulator or eventually sharing with Latifi on Fridays. Historically, Williams has been a team which will take a punt on a quick but unfinished driver.
Especially if he comes bearing money. REALIST123 said:
HustleRussell said:
Whatever you think of Ticktum, he’s quick- and I see no downside for Williams having a quick driver in the simulator or eventually sharing with Latifi on Fridays. Historically, Williams has been a team which will take a punt on a quick but unfinished driver.
HustleRussell said:
Whatever you think of Ticktum, he’s quick- and I see no downside for Williams having a quick driver in the simulator or eventually sharing with Latifi on Fridays. Historically, Williams has been a team which will take a punt on a quick but unfinished driver.
I struggle to relate any decision Williams make today as being that relative in reasoning to what they may have done at the height of their powers.And flogging off engineering smacks of fire sale to me.
HustleRussell said:
Whatever you think of Ticktum, he’s quick- and I see no downside for Williams having a quick driver in the simulator or eventually sharing with Latifi on Fridays. Historically, Williams has been a team which will take a punt on a quick but unfinished driver.
Quick but unfinished is indeed a good way for any team to grab a bargain for the future. However, due to his reputation (not kicking the lad, but it's a factor in F1) I don't think Williams would have taken him on in their heyday. If it wasn't for the money I don't think they'd take him now either, there are others that could do the dev role as well without the reputation.The crux is, he paid and they said yes. He does have talent so that's a positive perhaps... But I think it's a bit generous to pretend that Williams made the decision for anything other than financial incentive.
Tyre Smoke said:
I've seen no evidence of his input. However, you have to ask, is that because he's having an influence and they'd be even further behind without him?
I would assume he's keeping his hand on the rudder, he's got no problems managing people and getting them to work effectively. He's also financially (and passion) motivated to keep the teams head above water as best he can.Safe pair of hands that likely doesn't need to be there full time but is still able to lead a tight team when he is. I doubt he's going to directly deliver any break through results with the cars evolution into 2020.. but probably is still able to drive the team to perform as best they can with what they have.
andburg said:
The sale of wae hopefully is to provide investment that will help once caps come in rather than the current car.
Everyone else is spending big so unless Williams do the same they will be stuck at the back for a long time.
No doubt that's the plan, the current car is what it is... I'm sure they'll make some progress for next year but unlikely as much as other teams.Everyone else is spending big so unless Williams do the same they will be stuck at the back for a long time.
Would be nice to know what they got for WAE as they need a lot of money to compete with the other teams 2021 effort - also, I'm thinking some of the money is needed to get through next year.
Edited by TheDeuce on Saturday 28th December 12:23
rallycross said:
Tyre Smoke said:
I've seen no evidence of his input. However, you have to ask, is that because he's having an influence and they'd be even further behind without him?
Did he come back, take a good look and realise it’s a basket case and nothing could be done to fix it?They essentially named him to replace Lowe as they couldn't afford anyone else and he was motivated to do his bit when he was asked.
He's a powerful leader, a proven motivator (if perhaps a tad outdated) and a generally positive influence. Do I think he's there 9-5 each day? Nah, he's already retired! Meeting twice a week to give his opinion to heads of departments and maybe the odd 20 minute b
king of whoever he feels is letting the side down. That's about all anyone that leaves the sport and then returns under a token role gives. They'll share endless wisdom when required (Lauda..) but they're hardly at the coal front driving progress in terms of modern F1 engineering.These old hands of the sport are incredibly valuable in terms of inspiration and motivation, no doubt. But the development of a modern F1 car needs someone fully in tune with what is current and what path their competitors are working towards. Williams don't seem to have such a person right now.
TheDeuce said:
They essentially named him to replace Lowe as they couldn't afford anyone else
My reading was that he's there on a short-term consultancy basis. I have great respect for Patrick Head but the one thing that he and FW seem to find impossible is to employ a good technical director. I don't think we need to waste anytime talking about Sam Michael, Pat Symonds didn't stay long and Paddy Lowe, for whatever reason, didn't work out.
C Lee Farquar said:
TheDeuce said:
They essentially named him to replace Lowe as they couldn't afford anyone else
My reading was that he's there on a short-term consultancy basis. I have great respect for Patrick Head but the one thing that he and FW seem to find impossible is to employ a good technical director. I don't think we need to waste anytime talking about Sam Michael, Pat Symonds didn't stay long and Paddy Lowe, for whatever reason, didn't work out.
I'd like to believe his return was more about support ing Claire when it comes to the management and business side of the team. I'm sure the engineers and designers know their own jobs and are about as good as in any other team - yet are ultimately scuppered by budget one way or another. No doubt at least part of Lowe's struggle was also budget.
The team has the kind of revenue needed to support the size of business it represents just to pay wages, maintain property etc. There can't be very much loose change left to build and field a set of F1 cars each year. For all we know Lowe's car was late because he was scrabbling for results and being held back each stage endlessly having to argue why the required costs are justified. It's absolutely no secret Williams are cash strapped these days and one way or another that will impact the potential of what anyone heading their design efforts can acheive.
C Lee Farquar said:
TheDeuce said:
However they describe heads function, he's the closest thing to a replacement for Lowe.
That I didn't know.My personal suspicion is that he both wanted and was welcomed back as a steady pair of hands in general as the team obviously isn't in the best of shape right now. He owns shares so it's in his interest to help stabilise things, it's in everyone's interests. Stabilise and then start to look for a long term solution to the problems. Just my guess though, not based on fact. I follow Williams fortunes pretty closely and the truth is I've heard bugger all about what he's actually doing/done for them, haven't even heard those such as brundle or DC comment on his function, both of whom are tuned in to paddock talk and normally divulge an overview of who is doing what behind the scenes.
Edited by TheDeuce on Sunday 29th December 22:10
After Kubica taking the PKN Orlen sponsorship with him to Alfa Romeo, Williams have now lost the sponsorship from Rexona, who haven't renewed the contract with them. Tata, Omnitec and Symantec have also stopped their sponsorship. http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/williams-f1-rex...
ajprice said:
After Kubica taking the PKN Orlen sponsorship with him to Alfa Romeo, Williams have now lost the sponsorship from Rexona, who haven't renewed the contract with them. Tata, Omnitec and Symantec have also stopped their sponsorship. http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/williams-f1-rex...
This was all predicted (in this thread) following yet another very poor year. The loss of both such major sponsors effectively at the same time is unfortunate though - even with latifi's sponsorship/paid seat basic maths would suggest the team are still short on last year's revenue unless they find another sponsor.A problem no doubt compounded by the fact that next year they have the same car, albeit evolved slightly, so it's difficult to believe it won't be at the back again. That is a difficult proposition to sell to a sponsor. They get hardly any screen time at the back and when they do it's almost always accompanied by the commentators talking about how much they're struggling.
TheDeuce said:
ajprice said:
After Kubica taking the PKN Orlen sponsorship with him to Alfa Romeo, Williams have now lost the sponsorship from Rexona, who haven't renewed the contract with them. Tata, Omnitec and Symantec have also stopped their sponsorship. http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/williams-f1-rex...
This was all predicted (in this thread) following yet another very poor year. The loss of both such major sponsors effectively at the same time is unfortunate though - even with latifi's sponsorship/paid seat basic maths would suggest the team are still short on last year's revenue unless they find another sponsor.A problem no doubt compounded by the fact that next year they have the same car, albeit evolved slightly, so it's difficult to believe it won't be at the back again. That is a difficult proposition to sell to a sponsor. They get hardly any screen time at the back and when they do it's almost always accompanied by the commentators talking about how much they're struggling.
sgtBerbatov said:
I think we might now know why they sold the advanced engineering firm.
I think there might be more changes to come ahead of this season beginning too. If the current financial juggling gives them a 2019 equivalent budget then they'll get through the year no problems - but they also need money to develop a ground up and at least slightly competitive 2021 car. It's a very uncomfortable time to have empty pockets.TheDeuce said:
I think there might be more changes to come ahead of this season beginning too. If the current financial juggling gives them a 2019 equivalent budget then they'll get through the year no problems - but they also need money to develop a ground up and at least slightly competitive 2021 car. It's a very uncomfortable time to have empty pockets.
Completely right. From what I gather, the advanced engineering bit took a lot of information from the F1 team. So either they'll save there or get something from it from the new owners. Maybe. I don't know.But they have Latifi who has brought in money, and Ticktack is there who will be providing them money as there's zero reason for his presence in F1, let alone as a development driver. But I would think that the money from them is being ploughed in to next year's car, with the bare essentials being spent on this car. There's no other real way of doing it I don't think.
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