The Official F1 2020 silly season *contains speculation*

The Official F1 2020 silly season *contains speculation*

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Discussion

Deesee

3,326 posts

32 months

Sunday 12th January
quotequote all
Piginapoke said:
Top 3 unlikely but not impossible events in 2020:

Williams outside the 107% rule
Vettel quits before the end of the year
Haas walks away
Almost probable there..

thegreenhell

6,372 posts

168 months

Sunday 12th January
quotequote all
Piginapoke said:
Williams outside the 107% rule
The slowest of their two cars was an average 103.19% behind across the whole 2019 season. To drop outside 107% they'd need to drop another 3.5 seconds further behind the fastest. Even just fielding their 2019 car again should see them comfortably within 107% in 2020.

vaud

Original Poster:

34,474 posts

104 months

Sunday 12th January
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
Piginapoke said:
Williams outside the 107% rule
The slowest of their two cars was an average 103.19% behind across the whole 2019 season. To drop outside 107% they'd need to drop another 3.5 seconds further behind the fastest. Even just fielding their 2019 car again should see them comfortably within 107% in 2020.
Indeed. Plus it is at the discretion from the race stewards, who will not want to see a partial grid. 107% was from a time of fuller grids, and to avoid dangerously slow cars. The Williams was crap, but not dangerously slow.

Deesee

3,326 posts

32 months

Sunday 12th January
quotequote all
vaud said:
thegreenhell said:
Piginapoke said:
Williams outside the 107% rule
The slowest of their two cars was an average 103.19% behind across the whole 2019 season. To drop outside 107% they'd need to drop another 3.5 seconds further behind the fastest. Even just fielding their 2019 car again should see them comfortably within 107% in 2020.
Indeed. Plus it is at the discretion from the race stewards, who will not want to see a partial grid. 107% was from a time of fuller grids, and to avoid dangerously slow cars. The Williams was crap, but not dangerously slow.
They (RK) posted a 104.98% last yr in Melbourne (GR a 102.8% on F1 debut) Real time thats 1.7 seconds... I suppose we will see Latifi's pace.. Merc/Ferrari/Red Bull could gain the difference in those 12 months.

TheDeuce

3,938 posts

15 months

Sunday 12th January
quotequote all
Deesee said:
They (RK) posted a 104.98% last yr in Melbourne (GR a 102.8% on F1 debut) Real time thats 1.7 seconds... I suppose we will see Latifi's pace.. Merc/Ferrari/Red Bull could gain the difference in those 12 months.
RK is clearly not the force he was... And the car is a shocker - yet he didn't get dangerously close to 107%. Makes you wonder how bad things would be if anyone did break the rule!?

It's all a nonsense anyway. Cars that don't break the rule are lapped twice anyway, they're as in the way as the rule was originally designed to avoid.

Whatever progress the top teams make, we have to assume Williams will also find something, even if not very much. I seriously doubt they'll break the rule next year.

Deesee

3,326 posts

32 months

Sunday 12th January
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Deesee said:
They (RK) posted a 104.98% last yr in Melbourne (GR a 102.8% on F1 debut) Real time thats 1.7 seconds... I suppose we will see Latifi's pace.. Merc/Ferrari/Red Bull could gain the difference in those 12 months.
RK is clearly not the force he was... And the car is a shocker - yet he didn't get dangerously close to 107%. Makes you wonder how bad things would be if anyone did break the rule!?

It's all a nonsense anyway. Cars that don't break the rule are lapped twice anyway, they're as in the way as the rule was originally designed to avoid.

Whatever progress the top teams make, we have to assume Williams will also find something, even if not very much. I seriously doubt they'll break the rule next year.
The cars are figuratively closer than ever they would be allowed to race as mentioned above.

Here’s the 107% list of ‘shame’

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/107%25_rule

TheDeuce

3,938 posts

15 months

Sunday 12th January
quotequote all
Deesee said:
The cars are figuratively closer than ever they would be allowed to race as mentioned above.

Here’s the 107% list of ‘shame’

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/107%25_rule
To be fair, if you break the rule there really is no point going racing. It's also hard to imagine any team breaking it these days unless there is some fluke bad luck. At least until the next era shake up. Or beyond that when they're all apparently required to rock up to the grid with 2 stroke engines... That'll be interesting.

Deesee

3,326 posts

32 months

Sunday 12th January
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Deesee said:
The cars are figuratively closer than ever they would be allowed to race as mentioned above.

Here’s the 107% list of ‘shame’

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/107%25_rule
To be fair, if you break the rule there really is no point going racing. It's also hard to imagine any team breaking it these days unless there is some fluke bad luck. At least until the next era shake up. Or beyond that when they're all apparently required to rock up to the grid with 2 stroke engines... That'll be interesting.
19 x its happened in the turbo hybrid era (107%)..

Anyway, can't remember where the discussion was but 2 stroke engines, more power, more lightweight, more energy efficient (& synthetic fuel), more noise.. thats the kind of thing that could even unite all of us on here hehe

TheDeuce

3,938 posts

15 months

Sunday 12th January
quotequote all
Deesee said:
19 x its happened in the turbo hybrid era (107%)..

Anyway, can't remember where the discussion was but 2 stroke engines, more power, more lightweight, more energy efficient (& synthetic fuel), more noise.. thats the kind of thing that could even unite all of us on here hehe
Oh I'm not against it, bring it on! Just a bit odd that we've all been debating if/when F1 goes electric and it turn out the master plan is 2 stroke biggrin

I've been reading up on next gen 2 stroke for the last couple of days and it looks like it might be the swan song of ICE for cars in general. Overall with modern high tech cylinder management it seems 2 stroke makes more sense in terms of overall efficiency and power to weight. Funny how things progress and come back from the past..

Mr_Thyroid

1,781 posts

176 months

Sunday 12th January
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
It's all a nonsense anyway. Cars that don't break the rule are lapped twice anyway, they're as in the way as the rule was originally designed to avoid.
Not really, the rule was brought in in 1996 because of the poor performance of Forti, Pacific and Simtek in 1995. In Brazil '95 (the first round, and a short track) the fastest of these cars was Gachot's Pacific which was a full 5 seconds off pole while Schiattaralla's Simtek was 8 seconds off. In the race Montermini (Pacific) and Diniz (Forti) were, respectively, 6 and 7 laps behind and the last placed runners in 9th and 10th.

In Argentina the Fortis were both lapped 9 times - and Brundle, who was commentating because he only had a part time drive with Ligier, quipped that they were called Forti because, they were being lapped so frequently, that's how many there seemed to be.

TheDeuce

3,938 posts

15 months

Sunday 12th January
quotequote all
Mr_Thyroid said:
TheDeuce said:
It's all a nonsense anyway. Cars that don't break the rule are lapped twice anyway, they're as in the way as the rule was originally designed to avoid.
Not really, the rule was brought in in 1996 because of the poor performance of Forti, Pacific and Simtek in 1995. In Brazil '95 (the first round, and a short track) the fastest of these cars was Gachot's Pacific which was a full 5 seconds off pole while Schiattaralla's Simtek was 8 seconds off. In the race Montermini (Pacific) and Diniz (Forti) were, respectively, 6 and 7 laps behind and the last placed runners in 9th and 10th.

In Argentina the Fortis were both lapped 9 times - and Brundle, who was commentating because he only had a part time drive with Ligier, quipped that they were called Forti because, they were being lapped so frequently, that's how many there seemed to be.
That's some impressive knowledge!

The rule was still brought in to prevent totally non competitive runners cluttering up the track though? My point being that it's possible to not break the rule and still be very much in the way.. if the rule had a functional purpose today 104% might make more sense?

Big Nanas

337 posts

33 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Crikey there's a lot (even by this forum's standards) pessimism for 2020.
How about:
- Williams scores 5 points this season (tiny amount, almost certainly last but a significant improvement)
- Vettle conquers his demons and produces a decent season to end his time at Ferrari.
etc etc.
I'd much rather be supportive of F1 than pointing and laughing at the failures. (Maybe that's just me).

Oh, apart from the 2-stroke idea which seems to have a favourable response here. Definitely sounds like a plan, and hopefully the engine suppliers will find a business case to develop it/use it.

Oh, a quick google states that Formula E uses glycerine powered generators to recharge their batteries (not sure about the rest of the mobile power requirements though).

Deesee

3,326 posts

32 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Big Nanas said:
Oh, a quick google states that Formula E uses glycerine powered generators to recharge their batteries (not sure about the rest of the mobile power requirements though).
Btw I’m behind the scenes at a few E Prixs this yr, I’ll check if they have upgraded from diesel to bio diesel or some plant based fuel.

Big Nanas

337 posts

33 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Deesee said:
Btw I’m behind the scenes at a few E Prixs this yr, I’ll check if they have upgraded from diesel to bio diesel or some plant based fuel.
Nice one, in what capacity? (if you can say). I'd genuinely be interested in hearing any behind the scenes secrets/information if you can.

Deesee

3,326 posts

32 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Big Nanas said:
Nice one, in what capacity? (if you can say). I'd genuinely be interested in hearing any behind the scenes secrets/information if you can.
Sure a friend of mine is involved with the senior management of one of the teams as well as having a contract direct with formula e management, he is currently tasked with selling (well at least a majority stake) the team.

It’s really interesting area commercially, and I must admit I was bowled over by some of the numbers, and some of the names that have been interested in buying the stake/team as well as potential sponsors coming on board.

So my knowledge of motorsport is more commercial/contractual, and my background is finance, I’ll be a second pair of eyes and ears between the sellers (team), buyers (vips) and there associated legal and representative people.

I was approached a number of years back to do a similar role at FOM, but it never really looked like it could work tbh, but my acquaintance seems to have pulled it off with formula e.

Anyway, I’ve been promised that I can have a good nose around the ‘garage’ so I’m looking forward to it & there’s a fair bit of decent marketing to be done with some very well planned ‘stunts’ that I’ve been cleared to be involved in.

I’ll ask if I can post some pics/post some twitter/instagram links, if I can I’ll put up a thread on that race weekend.

davidd

5,998 posts

233 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Deesee said:
Sure a friend of mine is involved with the senior management of one of the teams as well as having a contract direct with formula e management, he is currently tasked with selling (well at least a majority stake) the team.

It’s really interesting area commercially, and I must admit I was bowled over by some of the numbers, and some of the names that have been interested in buying the stake/team as well as potential sponsors coming on board.

So my knowledge of motorsport is more commercial/contractual, and my background is finance, I’ll be a second pair of eyes and ears between the sellers (team), buyers (vips) and there associated legal and representative people.

I was approached a number of years back to do a similar role at FOM, but it never really looked like it could work tbh, but my acquaintance seems to have pulled it off with formula e.

Anyway, I’ve been promised that I can have a good nose around the ‘garage’ so I’m looking forward to it & there’s a fair bit of decent marketing to be done with some very well planned ‘stunts’ that I’ve been cleared to be involved in.

I’ll ask if I can post some pics/post some twitter/instagram links, if I can I’ll put up a thread on that race weekend.
That will be interesting, there is a chance we might be getting involved in FE, if it happens and I'm at any races I'll buy you a beer.


TheDeuce

3,938 posts

15 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Deesee said:
Sure a friend of mine is involved with the senior management of one of the teams as well as having a contract direct with formula e management, he is currently tasked with selling (well at least a majority stake) the team.

It’s really interesting area commercially, and I must admit I was bowled over by some of the numbers, and some of the names that have been interested in buying the stake/team as well as potential sponsors coming on board.

So my knowledge of motorsport is more commercial/contractual, and my background is finance, I’ll be a second pair of eyes and ears between the sellers (team), buyers (vips) and there associated legal and representative people.

I was approached a number of years back to do a similar role at FOM, but it never really looked like it could work tbh, but my acquaintance seems to have pulled it off with formula e.

Anyway, I’ve been promised that I can have a good nose around the ‘garage’ so I’m looking forward to it & there’s a fair bit of decent marketing to be done with some very well planned ‘stunts’ that I’ve been cleared to be involved in.

I’ll ask if I can post some pics/post some twitter/instagram links, if I can I’ll put up a thread on that race weekend.
Exciting times! Maybe off the back of this it could be a way in to FOM too in some capacity down the line?

Certainly a good area to specialise in, motorsport legal/finance. A bit more inspiring than whatever most money men end up dealing with - my neighbour spends his 9-5 life arranging money for the growing and movement of potatoes through the food chain... Your new posting sounds better than that biggrin

Intrigued to know who's selling and who might be buying..

Edited by TheDeuce on Monday 13th January 12:59

Deesee

3,326 posts

32 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Intrigued to know who's selling and who might be buying..

Edited by TheDeuce on Monday 13th January 12:59
Can’t say on that one... wink unfortunately...


Deesee

3,326 posts

32 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Exciting times! Maybe off the back of this it could be a way in to FOM too in some capacity down the line?
I did have a look back under Liberty, slightly different (new) role, but now I’m with kids (young) it would be a bit of a non starter.

10 or so yrs ago a pay cut and the piranha club would have been heaven..

Happy kicking out loans/finance at the moment wink ! & I’ll support my friend for at least 2 weekends.

TheDeuce

3,938 posts

15 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Deesee said:
TheDeuce said:
Exciting times! Maybe off the back of this it could be a way in to FOM too in some capacity down the line?
I did have a look back under Liberty, slightly different (new) role, but now I’m with kids (young) it would be a bit of a non starter.

10 or so yrs ago a pay cut and the piranha club would have been heaven..

Happy kicking out loans/finance at the moment wink ! & I’ll support my friend for at least 2 weekends.
Fair play, family first. Pretty sweet that you get to have the experience of FE alongside that!