Engine manufacturer championship

[TheDeuce]

Renault...

Not doing very well at anything this year are they.

Technically their PU is seemingly pretty powerful but the reliability is awful. There haven't been that many DNF's this year compared to last, but also when in danger they never turn up the wick, because that would almost certainly lead to melt-down? I'm comparing this to the Honda PU that RB have at least twice spent almost half a race 'turned up to 11' and still the beast survives.. I get the impression if Renault tried such a power mode for a sustained period the result would be a foregone conclusion. These days, not being able to turn it up if needed is a pretty huge flaw in F1.

I'm only assuming they haven't successfully run sustained higher power modes because there has been no real coverage of them doing so. If anyone knows more, please correct me.

[dunc_sx]

HustleRussell said:

Look what happens when you do this;

engine	aus	bhr	chn	aze	esp	mon	can	fra	aut	gbr	ger	hun	spa	total	points per contract
Merc	46	44	47	53	44	40	40	43	25	44	15	29	42	512	85
Hond	16	18	22	12	25	33	15	13	31	24	49	28	18	304	76
Ferr	34	32	27	27	29	19	33	32	34	19	28	34	38	385	64
Rena	6	8	6	10	4	10	14	14	12	15	10	12	4	125	31

Edited by HustleRussell on Thursday 5th September 18:12

Yeah I had considered this as well, but didn't bother to work it out. Thanks for the work, interesting.

Dunc.

[TheDeuce]

dunc_sx said:

HustleRussell said:

Look what happens when you do this;

engine	aus	bhr	chn	aze	esp	mon	can	fra	aut	gbr	ger	hun	spa	total	points per contract
Merc	46	44	47	53	44	40	40	43	25	44	15	29	42	512	85
Hond	16	18	22	12	25	33	15	13	31	24	49	28	18	304	76
Ferr	34	32	27	27	29	19	33	32	34	19	28	34	38	385	64
Rena	6	8	6	10	4	10	14	14	12	15	10	12	4	125	31

Edited by HustleRussell on Thursday 5th September 18:12

Yeah I had considered this as well, but didn't bother to work it out. Thanks for the work, interesting.

Dunc.

Even without the tweak, Honda is significantly closer to Ferrari than Ferrari are to Mercedes. A little ominous for 2020 maybe - given what Max has managed vs Ferrari this year, and given that next year they at least have a decent second driver in Albon, or maybe even better depending on who they can beg/bribe.

I keep banging on about this but with the right driver line up I really think the big 2020 story (other than LH/Merc smashing records weekly..) will be RB vs Ferrari

[slipstream 1985]

dunc_sx said:

HustleRussell said:

Look what happens when you do this;

engine	aus	bhr	chn	aze	esp	mon	can	fra	aut	gbr	ger	hun	spa	total	points per contract
Merc	46	44	47	53	44	40	40	43	25	44	15	29	42	512	85
Hond	16	18	22	12	25	33	15	13	31	24	49	28	18	304	76
Ferr	34	32	27	27	29	19	33	32	34	19	28	34	38	385	64
Rena	6	8	6	10	4	10	14	14	12	15	10	12	4	125	31

Edited by HustleRussell on Thursday 5th September 18:12

Yeah I had considered this as well, but didn't bother to work it out. Thanks for the work, interesting.

Dunc.

This works for now for 1 quite amazing reason. Due to alfa's exclusion from Germany no engine has had 5 or 6 points finishes in the same race. At best they have got 4

[slipstream 1985]

engine	aus	bhr	chn	aze	esp	mon	can	fra	aut	gbr	ger	hun	spa	ita	total
Merc	46	44	47	53	44	40	40	43	25	44	15	29	42	40	552
Ferr	34	32	27	27	29	19	33	32	34	19	28	34	38	27	412
Hond	16	18	22	12	25	33	15	13	31	24	49	28	18	12	316
Rena	6	8	6	10	4	10	14	14	12	15	10	12	4	23	148

Wow where have Renault been hiding that. Again could would of should of but you'd have to say Sainz was on for 6th...

Leclerc getting warnings like a 2 year old. "I'm counting to 3 . 1.... 2..... 2 and a half..... 2 and 3three quarters............

[rdjohn]

The first win to Renault over Honda. - and at a power circuit, pure and simple.

Though, I can’t say that I feel that they have turned a corner. (Metaphorically speaking, of course)

[NewUsername]

rdjohn said:

The first win to Renault over Honda. - and at a power circuit, pure and simple.

Though, I can’t say that I feel that they have turned a corner. (Metaphorically speaking, of course)

I think they have been on a par or better than Honda all year, only the mastery of Adrian Newey and Verstappen combined regularly beats a Mclaren

The factory team has issues with draggy downforce so masks the power but Mclaren are showing with a half decent chassis that they have the regular beating off all but one of the Honda cars.

Reliability, who knows, Honda have upped their game, but it was poor to start with

[slipstream 1985]

engine	aus	bhr	chn	aze	esp	mon	can	fra	aut	gbr	ger	hun	spa	ita	sin	total
Merc	46	44	47	53	44	40	40	43	25	44	15	29	42	40	22	574
Ferr	34	32	27	27	29	19	33	32	34	19	28	34	38	27	44	456
Hond	16	18	22	12	25	33	15	13	31	24	49	28	18	12	27	343
Rena	6	8	6	10	4	10	14	14	12	15	10	12	4	23	8	156

Nobody scored the point for fastest lap. Ferraris biggest haul for the year.

[slipstream 1985]

engine	aus	bhr	chn	aze	esp	mon	can	fra	aut	gbr	ger	hun	spa	ita	sin	rus	total
Merc	46	44	47	53	44	40	40	43	25	44	15	29	42	40	22	50	624
Ferr	34	32	27	27	29	19	33	32	34	19	28	34	38	27	44	17	473
Hond	16	18	22	12	25	33	15	13	31	24	49	28	18	12	27	22	365
Rena	6	8	6	10	4	10	14	14	12	15	10	12	4	23	8	13	169

Ferrari fast clearly but as Paul put it to finish first first you must finish. Part of the reason I am not against the engine penalties. You want to make a monster power fast engine at the expense of reliability heres the cost not in direct financial terms.
.

[slipstream 1985]

engine	aus	bhr	chn	aze	esp	mon	can	fra	aut	gbr	ger	hun	spa	ita	sin	rus	jpn	total
Merc	46	44	47	53	44	40	40	43	25	44	15	29	42	40	22	50	43	667
Ferr	34	32	27	27	29	19	33	32	34	19	28	34	38	27	44	17	24	497
Hond	16	18	22	12	25	33	15	13	31	24	49	28	18	12	27	22	16	381
Rena	6	8	6	10	4	10	14	14	12	15	10	12	4	23	8	13	19	188

The rule of home race dissaster strikes again as honda gain the least points from Japan.

[Flooble]

Looks like this particular championship is also mostly decided then! Impressive to be on top despite Mercedes only having two teams.

[thegreenhell]

Flooble said:

Looks like this particular championship is also mostly decided then! Impressive to be on top despite Mercedes only having two teams.

It helps that the Mercedes works team itself is totally dominant. You could give both Merc customer teams to Ferrari and Mercedes on their own would still be miles in the lead of this table.

[HustleRussell]

Thanks for keeping this up Slipstream

I have made my adjustment;

engine	aus	bhr	chn	aze	esp	mon	can	fra	aut	gbr	ger	hun	spa	ita	sin	rus	jpn	total	points per contract
Merc	46	44	47	53	44	40	40	43	25	44	15	29	42	40	22	50	43	667	111
Hond	16	18	22	12	25	33	15	13	31	24	49	28	18	12	27	22	16	381	95
Ferr	34	32	27	27	29	19	33	32	34	19	28	34	38	27	44	17	24	497	83
Rena	6	8	6	10	4	10	14	14	12	15	10	12	4	23	8	13	19	188	47

Renault are having a shocker however you cut it, but watching one pass a Racing Point on the run up to 130R yesterday reminded me that outright power is not the problem.

[slipstream 1985]

Yep amazingly there hasn't been a single race where either of the teams that field 6 cars have had more than 4 points finishers. Germany would have been but the alfas
got disqualified.

[HustleRussell]

slipstream 1985 said:

Yep amazingly there hasn't been a single race where either of the teams that field 6 cars have had more than 4 points finishers. Germany would have been but the alfas
got disqualified.

Your thread, your rules and all that but I don't see the logic in ignoring the fact that two PU suppliers have 6 drivers and the other two have 4 drivers simply because no more than four have scored points in any one race. It doesn't seem very statistical.

If it's an 'engine manufacturer championship', surely the fact that a supplier will have one or more drivers finishing outside the points at a given race might be relevant for the purposes of the exercise?

Also it's not as though there are four drivers out there who are pointless, all but one driver in the championship has scored one or more points.

(Poor George, lumbered as he is with inferior Mercedes power...)

[slipstream 1985]

HustleRussell said:

slipstream 1985 said:

Yep amazingly there hasn't been a single race where either of the teams that field 6 cars have had more than 4 points finishers. Germany would have been but the alfas
got disqualified.

Your thread, your rules and all that but I don't see the logic in ignoring the fact that two PU suppliers have 6 drivers and the other two have 4 drivers simply because no more than four have scored points in any one race. It doesn't seem very statistical.

If it's an 'engine manufacturer championship', surely the fact that a supplier will have one or more drivers finishing outside the points at a given race might be relevant for the purposes of the exercise?

Also it's not as though there are four drivers out there who are pointless, all but one driver in the championship has scored one or more points.

(Poor George, lumbered as he is with inferior Mercedes power...)

Yeah it could be done either way to show total points for the manufactuer or best 4/6 obviously having 6 runners in the race with 4 scoring points does give a statistical advantage. One that is evened up a little by mercedes having the williams as a lame duck. Dividing the total accumulated points by the number of teams contributing to the total points store does add another interesting statistic.

[rdjohn]

I get the table.

For the purposes of comparison, I just ignore Mercedes and Ferrari. Renault and Honda each have a “works”, of “B” team and Renault are performing very poorly to the extent that they are being trounced by the “B” team, who, in realising this, have decided to terminate their contract.

Renault just need to get-a-grip on their whole operation.

[slipstream 1985]

engine	aus	bhr	chn	aze	esp	mon	can	fra	aut	gbr	ger	hun	spa	ita	sin	rus	jpn	mex	total
Merc	46	44	47	53	44	40	40	43	25	44	15	29	42	40	22	50	47	46	717
Ferr	34	32	27	27	29	19	33	32	34	19	28	34	38	27	44	17	26	30	524
Hond	16	18	22	12	25	33	15	13	31	24	49	28	18	12	27	22	19	20	401
Rena	6	8	6	10	4	10	14	14	12	15	10	12	4	23	8	13	10	5	184

updated for Renaults dsq as well

[slipstream 1985]

engine	aus	bhr	chn	aze	esp	mon	can	fra	aut	gbr	ger	hun	spa	ita	sin	rus	jpn	mex	usa	bra	total
Merc	46	44	47	53	44	40	40	43	25	44	15	29	42	40	22	50	47	46	44	17	778
Ferr	34	32	27	27	29	19	33	32	34	19	28	34	38	27	44	17	26	30	13	18	553
Hond	16	18	22	12	25	33	15	13	31	24	49	28	18	12	27	22	19	20	25	44	470
Rena	6	8	6	10	4	10	14	14	12	15	10	12	4	23	8	13	10	5	20	22	226

Wow at one point I honestly though Honda would be pulling the biggest 1 off race haul with a 1,2,3

[HustleRussell]

I think you’ve jumped the gun calculating this straight after the race