Official 2019 Chinese Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[civicduty]

Not sure where I got the last years car being rear limited from but this was the article I think I saw.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.crash.net/f1/news...

[Deesee]

civicduty said:

Think I read somewhere that McLaren where themselves expecting to struggle at this circuit, something to do with this years car being front limited (rather than the rear limited car of last year), and China being one of the circuits that exacerbates this issue.

The McLarens have developed a nasty habit of getting hit in the first lap.

They’ve been pretty handy so far this year, China was a track that did not suit them over one lap, but they would have had decent race pace.

(The car seems to be very stable at the rear).

[The Moose]

TobyTR said:

Clutching at straws. Still goes without saying, this is the most dominant era by one team in the history of F1; it's no wonder viewing figures are less than 50% of what they were in 2007...

Out of interest, where are you seeing the viewing figures have dropped by more than 50%?

[Vaud]

The Moose said:

TobyTR said:

Clutching at straws. Still goes without saying, this is the most dominant era by one team in the history of F1; it's no wonder viewing figures are less than 50% of what they were in 2007...

Out of interest, where are you seeing the viewing figures have dropped by more than 50%?

Indeed
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.formula...

490.2m unique viewers

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1031656_f1s-tv...
600m in 2008

So a change, but pretty robust, plus viewing habits are changing (more youtube, etc)

[TheDeuce]

Vaud said:

The Moose said:

TobyTR said:

Clutching at straws. Still goes without saying, this is the most dominant era by one team in the history of F1; it's no wonder viewing figures are less than 50% of what they were in 2007...

Out of interest, where are you seeing the viewing figures have dropped by more than 50%?

Indeed
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.formula...

490.2m unique viewers

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1031656_f1s-tv...
600m in 2008

So a change, but pretty robust, plus viewing habits are changing (more youtube, etc)

Given that the sport is increasingly hidden behind paywalls then a moderate decrease in viewers is to be expected. The fact it's dropped relatively little in the last ten years suggests that people are engaged enough to be willing to pay for it.

I don't think there is any evidence in those numbers to suggest people are stopping watching due to boredom. Isn't track attendance actually increasing too?

[E34-3.2]

TheDeuce said:

Vaud said:

The Moose said:

TobyTR said:

Clutching at straws. Still goes without saying, this is the most dominant era by one team in the history of F1; it's no wonder viewing figures are less than 50% of what they were in 2007...

Out of interest, where are you seeing the viewing figures have dropped by more than 50%?

Indeed
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.formula...

490.2m unique viewers

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1031656_f1s-tv...
600m in 2008

So a change, but pretty robust, plus viewing habits are changing (more youtube, etc)

Given that the sport is increasingly hidden behind paywalls then a moderate decrease in viewers is to be expected. The fact it's dropped relatively little in the last ten years suggests that people are engaged enough to be willing to pay for it.

I don't think there is any evidence in those numbers to suggest people are stopping watching due to boredom. Isn't track attendance actually increasing too?

Yep, I have read that track attendance has increase over the years. TV viewing is mostly due to paywalls.

I readi an interesting article a few years ago, 2007 was high in viewing due to the Hamilton effect. A prodigy joining an F1 world champion in a McLaren was the perfect mix to attract a new audience. Not sure how they calculated that but it made a lot of sense.

[angrymoby]

i do get the impression that if some posters chosen driver/ team were consistently dominating, then they wouldn't be complaining at all

[swisstoni]

angrymoby said:

i do get the impression that if some posters chosen driver/ team were consistently dominating, then they wouldn't be complaining at all

I remember during the Ferrari/Schumacher years there wasn't a shred of a chance of his No2 teammate winning to the detriment of Mr S.
At least Merc let Hamilton and Rosberg knock each other about a bit during their sole dominance.
I don't think F1 could have withstood it any other way.

[The Moose]

E34-3.2 said:

TheDeuce said:

Vaud said:

The Moose said:

TobyTR said:

Clutching at straws. Still goes without saying, this is the most dominant era by one team in the history of F1; it's no wonder viewing figures are less than 50% of what they were in 2007...

Out of interest, where are you seeing the viewing figures have dropped by more than 50%?

Indeed
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.formula...

490.2m unique viewers

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1031656_f1s-tv...
600m in 2008

So a change, but pretty robust, plus viewing habits are changing (more youtube, etc)

Given that the sport is increasingly hidden behind paywalls then a moderate decrease in viewers is to be expected. The fact it's dropped relatively little in the last ten years suggests that people are engaged enough to be willing to pay for it.

I don't think there is any evidence in those numbers to suggest people are stopping watching due to boredom. Isn't track attendance actually increasing too?

Yep, I have read that track attendance has increase over the years. TV viewing is mostly due to paywalls.

I readi an interesting article a few years ago, 2007 was high in viewing due to the Hamilton effect. A prodigy joining an F1 world champion in a McLaren was the perfect mix to attract a new audience. Not sure how they calculated that but it made a lot of sense.

I also recall reading somewhere than when calculating viewing figures, Bernie would include everything...all coverage. Such as if a clip was shown on the news, the viewers of that news broadcast were included in the numbers etc. Obviously I have no idea (I have no inside info).

The way the numbers are collated and presented need to be reviewed also.

[rdjohn]

Hamilton was asked in Barcelona about UK viewing figures for his first and last WDCs.

When Hamilton won his first world championship in the 2008 Brazilian Grand Prix, 8.9 million people watched the free-to-air broadcast live in the UK. Last year just 1.28 million saw the live coverage of his fifth world title win on pay-TV.

An extra couple of million YouTube viewers do not add much to Liberty’s coffers.

[TheDeuce]

angrymoby said:

i do get the impression that if some posters chosen driver/ team were consistently dominating, then they wouldn't be complaining at all

Very probably true!

Personally I don't really have any loyalty to a particular team or driver, I just enjoy the sport in general. However, seeing Mercedes set new records for winning streaks and also Hamilton withing potential reach of equalling/beating Schumacher's 7 title record is an exciting prospect..

[TheDeuce]

Mark's view on Mercedes dominance and why: https://youtu.be/BixzvCsUDAE

All makes sense and tallies with the observations made in this thread. They win by getting everything right, which added up is enough to offset any potential marginal pace advantage Ferrari *may* have.

[Deesee]

TheDeuce said:

Mark's view on Mercedes dominance and why: https://youtu.be/BixzvCsUDAE

All makes sense and tallies with the observations made in this thread. They win by getting everything right, which added up is enough to offset any potential marginal pace advantage Ferrari *may* have.

See Sky pro bike team (less the drugs), marginal gains add up..

[TheDeuce]

Deesee said:

TheDeuce said:

Mark's view on Mercedes dominance and why: https://youtu.be/BixzvCsUDAE

All makes sense and tallies with the observations made in this thread. They win by getting everything right, which added up is enough to offset any potential marginal pace advantage Ferrari *may* have.

See Sky pro bike team (less the drugs), marginal gains add up..

Yes they do. My point though was that getting everything right during a race, can often be more of an overall gain than a competing car that is 1% faster.

I do believe, as the Ferrari fans keep pointing out, that on the right track the Ferrari is capable of slightly better pace than the Mercedes. And if their race goes perfectly, by the end the lead could be substantial.

The problem is, that Mercedes seem to get close to perfection far more often than Ferrari. It's no use having a theoretical 3 tenths advantage if you botch strategy, get the setup slightly wrong or suffer a mechanical issue.

The Ferrari crowd seem hell bent on believing it's all bad luck/teething problems and the car has yet to show it's true potential - and in a way, they're correct - it will happen, there will be such races. There just, won't be enough such races to defeat Mercedes.

[Deesee]

Nice to see F1 instagram team giving this guy 450k in views

Double stack eh.


https://www.instagram.com/p/BwUjxyLgHeg/?hl=en

[Deesee]

TheDeuce said:

Deesee said:

TheDeuce said:

Mark's view on Mercedes dominance and why: https://youtu.be/BixzvCsUDAE

All makes sense and tallies with the observations made in this thread. They win by getting everything right, which added up is enough to offset any potential marginal pace advantage Ferrari *may* have.

See Sky pro bike team (less the drugs), marginal gains add up..

Yes they do. My point though was that getting everything right during a race, can often be more of an overall gain than a competing car that is 1% faster.

I do believe, as the Ferrari fans keep pointing out, that on the right track the Ferrari is capable of slightly better pace than the Mercedes. And if their race goes perfectly, by the end the lead could be substantial.

The problem is, that Mercedes seem to get close to perfection far more often than Ferrari. It's no use having a theoretical 3 tenths advantage if you botch strategy, get the setup slightly wrong or suffer a mechanical issue.

The Ferrari crowd seem hell bent on believing it's all bad luck/teething problems and the car has yet to show it's true potential - and in a way, they're correct - it will happen, there will be such races. There just, won't be enough such races to defeat Mercedes.

Deuce..

You are correct, Merc could run a .5 second disadvantage and still be competitive as per the team as a whole at the moment.

it does not matter how quick you are if your burning fuel/wasting ERS in the wrong place, if your ERS is putting the power out at the wrong moment (or if the driver has it in the wrong gear at that point), it’s no good.

Merc are

winning strategy.

Mapping the ERS to the circuits, for quali and race modes, let alone in and out box laps, see the undercut in Bahrain (that should not have worked).

Driving deltas on race and quali, to enhance tyre performance.

Staying in the race, and they’ve had 3x 1/2 (1st time since Williams 1992).

Ferrari

have had 2x 3rd places in 3 races (of which they went in as hot favourites for each race).

Aero problems?

Engine management issues, one of two CE units used by race 3.

Team/driver leadership issues, I’m faster, no he’s not etc..

Last years test driver (now at Alfa as a driver, Giovinazzi) back in the simulator today..at HQ...

At this current rate they may win 2/3 races.

I stated last year if you want to beat Lewis you need to win 11 races, can’t see Seb/CLC putting that together.

[TheDeuce]

Deesee said:

Nice to see F1 instagram team giving this guy 450k in views

Double stack eh.


https://www.instagram.com/p/BwUjxyLgHeg/?hl=en

He got the best part of the race on film, fair play

[TheDeuce]

Deesee said:

TheDeuce said:

Deesee said:

TheDeuce said:

Mark's view on Mercedes dominance and why: https://youtu.be/BixzvCsUDAE

All makes sense and tallies with the observations made in this thread. They win by getting everything right, which added up is enough to offset any potential marginal pace advantage Ferrari *may* have.

See Sky pro bike team (less the drugs), marginal gains add up..

Yes they do. My point though was that getting everything right during a race, can often be more of an overall gain than a competing car that is 1% faster.

I do believe, as the Ferrari fans keep pointing out, that on the right track the Ferrari is capable of slightly better pace than the Mercedes. And if their race goes perfectly, by the end the lead could be substantial.

The problem is, that Mercedes seem to get close to perfection far more often than Ferrari. It's no use having a theoretical 3 tenths advantage if you botch strategy, get the setup slightly wrong or suffer a mechanical issue.

The Ferrari crowd seem hell bent on believing it's all bad luck/teething problems and the car has yet to show it's true potential - and in a way, they're correct - it will happen, there will be such races. There just, won't be enough such races to defeat Mercedes.

Deuce..

You are correct, Merc could run a .5 second disadvantage and still be competitive as per the team as a whole at the moment.

it does not matter how quick you are if your burning fuel/wasting ERS in the wrong place, if your ERS is putting the power out at the wrong moment (or if the driver has it in the wrong gear at that point), it’s no good.

Merc are

winning strategy.

Mapping the ERS to the circuits, for quali and race modes, let alone in and out box laps, see the undercut in Bahrain (that should not have worked).

Driving deltas on race and quali, to enhance tyre performance.

Staying in the race, and they’ve had 3x 1/2 (1st time since Williams 1992).

Ferrari

have had 2x 3rd places in 3 races (of which they went in as hot favourites for each race).

Aero problems?

Engine management issues, one of two CE units used by race 3.

Team/driver leadership issues, I’m faster, no he’s not etc..

Last years test driver (now at Alfa as a driver, Giovinazzi) back in the simulator today..at HQ...

At this current rate they may win 2/3 races.

I stated last year if you want to beat Lewis you need to win 11 races, can’t see Seb/CLC putting that together.

Well it's taken a while but finally seem to be of the same overall opinion

I suppose it's worth stating that I'm not suggesting Ferrari aren't 'on it', in general F1 terms they are doing a very good job. It's just.. Mercedes have redifined how a team can own the sport. I'm sure in marenello they struggle to believe another team has managed to go even further and work even harder than they have. It's not that Ferrari have done anything wrong, so much as Mercedes have found an extra few % of 'right'.

Facsinating to watch and see the effects of different team cultures realised on the track

[Deesee]

TheDeuce said:

Deesee said:

TheDeuce said:

Deesee said:

TheDeuce said:

Mark's view on Mercedes dominance and why: https://youtu.be/BixzvCsUDAE

All makes sense and tallies with the observations made in this thread. They win by getting everything right, which added up is enough to offset any potential marginal pace advantage Ferrari *may* have.

See Sky pro bike team (less the drugs), marginal gains add up..

Yes they do. My point though was that getting everything right during a race, can often be more of an overall gain than a competing car that is 1% faster.

I do believe, as the Ferrari fans keep pointing out, that on the right track the Ferrari is capable of slightly better pace than the Mercedes. And if their race goes perfectly, by the end the lead could be substantial.

The problem is, that Mercedes seem to get close to perfection far more often than Ferrari. It's no use having a theoretical 3 tenths advantage if you botch strategy, get the setup slightly wrong or suffer a mechanical issue.

The Ferrari crowd seem hell bent on believing it's all bad luck/teething problems and the car has yet to show it's true potential - and in a way, they're correct - it will happen, there will be such races. There just, won't be enough such races to defeat Mercedes.

Deuce..

You are correct, Merc could run a .5 second disadvantage and still be competitive as per the team as a whole at the moment.

it does not matter how quick you are if your burning fuel/wasting ERS in the wrong place, if your ERS is putting the power out at the wrong moment (or if the driver has it in the wrong gear at that point), it’s no good.

Merc are

winning strategy.

Mapping the ERS to the circuits, for quali and race modes, let alone in and out box laps, see the undercut in Bahrain (that should not have worked).

Driving deltas on race and quali, to enhance tyre performance.

Staying in the race, and they’ve had 3x 1/2 (1st time since Williams 1992).

Ferrari

have had 2x 3rd places in 3 races (of which they went in as hot favourites for each race).

Aero problems?

Engine management issues, one of two CE units used by race 3.

Team/driver leadership issues, I’m faster, no he’s not etc..

Last years test driver (now at Alfa as a driver, Giovinazzi) back in the simulator today..at HQ...

At this current rate they may win 2/3 races.

I stated last year if you want to beat Lewis you need to win 11 races, can’t see Seb/CLC putting that together.

Well it's taken a while but finally seem to be of the same overall opinion

I suppose it's worth stating that I'm not suggesting Ferrari aren't 'on it', in general F1 terms they are doing a very good job. It's just.. Mercedes have redifined how a team can own the sport. I'm sure in marenello they struggle to believe another team has managed to go even further and work even harder than they have. It's not that Ferrari have done anything wrong, so much as Mercedes have found an extra few % of 'right'.

Facsinating to watch and see the effects of different team cultures realised on the track

Yes indeed Anglo/Germanic is working quite well! Baku will be different (by its nature), but to me the fundamentals for Merc are the same. Tyre management, forcing teams to two stop by setting decent lap deltas, getting the mapping right for the ERS, for Quali, box and SC restarts here.

It’s up to Ferrari to respond positively from here.

[cuprabob]

If you could move either Toto or Lewis to Ferrari, which would you think would have the biggest impact?