Official 2019 Spanish Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[kambites]

Vaud said:

kambites said:

Do you mean hydrogen fueled internal combustion, or hydrogen fuel cell powered electric motor?

Former.

I don't think the car manufacturers would have any interest in such a formula given that it's not even remotely sensible for road cars, so that leads you to the question of whether F1 can survive without them.

[Vaud]

ash73 said:

Refuelling must return for two reasons; to stop them "managing" their pace, and to avoid artificial mandatory stops.

Takes the skill from a pit stop though. Your crew can't give you an advantage anymore with a fast stop as the refuelling becomes the long part and fixed based on fuel flow speed.

[kambites]

ash73 said:

There's nothing to discuss about the "race", Bottas had a clutch problem so the other guy won.

Only if you think the only thing which matters is who wins. There's 9 other points places to fight for.

One positive of this race actually was that the TV directors (or at least this one) finally seem to have got the message that it's more interesting to show mid-field battles than the leader out on his own. Back in the Schumacher era I can remember the whole race coverage basically just showing a red car driving around on its own.

[Eric Mc]

ash73 said:

Eric Mc said:

We have deviated a long way from last week's Spanish race.

There's nothing to discuss about the "race", Bottas had a clutch problem so the other guy won.

I rest my case.

[TheDeuce]

ash73 said:

Only if your definition of fully electric includes hydrogen fuel cells.

I can't see any reason or motivation to use fuel cells in F1. Totally unsuitable.

[Vaud]

kambites said:

I don't think the car manufacturers would have any interest in such a formula given that it's not even remotely sensible for road cars, so that leads you to the question of whether F1 can survive without them.

I thought it wasn't sensible at he moment due to the production and distribution grid?

I am hypothesising about how we keep ICE and some form of green message.

[TheDeuce]

Vaud said:

I thought it wasn't sensible at he moment due to the production and distribution grid?

I am hypothesising about how we keep ICE and some form of green message.

The problem is, that ultimately the green message is to get rid of ICE altogether.

[Derek Smith]

kambites said:

ash73 said:

There's nothing to discuss about the "race", Bottas had a clutch problem so the other guy won.

Only if you think the only thing which matters is who wins. There's 9 other points places to fight for.

One positive of this race actually was that the TV directors (or at least this one) finally seem to have got the message that it's more interesting to show mid-field battles than the leader out on his own. Back in the Schumacher era I can remember the whole race coverage basically just showing a red car driving around on its own.

Well said. It was a race that was as good as most Spanish GPs.

To think that the only thing that matters is which car wins misses the full glory of F1, and by some distance.

The race wasn't brilliant but there was a lot of fun away from the top five, although there was a lot happening with them.

Might I throw in a bid for McL doing well after so long in the mid of midfield. There's interest there.

It was a typical F1 race; interesting for those who take an interest in F1. We can't expect to expect Bahrain every fortnight, nice though it would be.

[Eric Mc]

Is there not a massive problem with hydrogen in that it is so poor when it comes to energy density. After all, the Space Shuttle's hydrogen tank was bigger than the vehicle it fueled. Obviously a hydrogen fuel tank for an ICE engine in a motor vehicle would not need to be so massive in proportion to that of a rocket motor but the fuel tank would still need to be a lot bigger than a petrol tank.

And how is the hydrogen stored in the tank - under pressure and chilled to almost absolute zero to keep it liquid?

[Vaud]

Eric Mc said:

Is there not a massive problem with hydrogen in that it is so poor when it comes to energy density. After all, the Space Shuttle's hydrogen tank was bigger than the vehicle it fueled. Obviously a hydrogen fuel tank for an ICE engine in a motor vehicle would not need to be so massive in proportion to that of a rocket motor but the fuel tank would still need to be a lot bigger than a petrol tank.

And how is the hydrogen stored in the tank - under pressure and chilled to almost absolute zero to keep it liquid?

Easy. Ejectable tanks, to be dodged Mario style.

[Eric Mc]

And no smoking within 100km of the pits.

[HorneyMX5]

vdn said:

If anything; F1 will end fully electric in the future.

There's already a series for that with loads of manufacturer support and well known drivers.

[kambites]

HorneyMX5 said:

vdn said:

If anything; F1 will end fully electric in the future.

There's already a series for that with loads of manufacturer support and well known drivers.

Indeed, but it's currently not very fast and is close to being a spec series. I guess the question is whether F1 moves over to sit above FE, or FE takes over the mantle and F1 tries to continue without any major manufacturer support. Right now, batteries aren't good enough to run a car with F1 performance over F1 race distances; how long it'll take them to get there is anyone's guess but I think they need to improve in energy density by roughly an order of magnitude.

[DanielSan]

ash73 said:

MB is right as usual but nobody will listen. The leading manufacturers and their sponsors won't care until people stop watching.

TBH I'm amazed anyone IS watching... oh look another "managed" Merc 1-2

I've been saying for years they should add ground effect, clip the wings, fix the tyres and bring back refuelling. They also need to ditch these boring hybrid power units and get back to screaming V10s, and focus "green" efforts on logistics.

Another year, another missed opportunity.

If they want to be more green, as you say focus on the logistics side, and as a nod to green-ness with the cars use E85 fuel, I'd also bring in the V8 Supercars pit rules where you have so much fuel to use but a tank that's not big enough. That way the engines still have to be efficient but bringing the refuelling back adds in an extra level of strategy.

[Deesee]

There is only one way forward V10 hybrids 1500 hp!!

Well..

Simplified aero.

Sprint race on the Saturday with ‘quali’ style tyres.

Reverse grid Sunday (top 10), unlimited tyres.

[vdn]

Eric Mc said:

ash73 said:

Eric Mc said:

We have deviated a long way from last week's Spanish race.

There's nothing to discuss about the "race", Bottas had a clutch problem so the other guy won.

I rest my case.

You chaps are a bore. Why don’t you and watch row boats or judo or something

And there were plenty of ups and downs across the field but you two only seem interested in the winner. Shame.

[paulguitar]

vdn said:

You chaps are a bore. Why don’t you and watch row boats or judo or something

And there were plenty of ups and downs across the field but you two only seem interested in the winner. Shame.

I don't think it is really fair to suggest anyone who is not delirious with the way a sport is going needs to simply watch something else. Many folks here have been watching for decades and do have very valid points in my opinion.

[vdn]

paulguitar said:

vdn said:

You chaps are a bore. Why don’t you and watch row boats or judo or something

And there were plenty of ups and downs across the field but you two only seem interested in the winner. Shame.

I don't think it is really fair to suggest anyone who is not delirious with the way a sport is going needs to simply watch something else. Many folks here have been watching for decades and do have very valid points in my opinion.

I agree but some characters come back after every race and say “ohhhh how can anyone watch that...”. And then say the same thing a week later. It’s hilarious.

[paulguitar]

vdn said:

paulguitar said:

vdn said:

You chaps are a bore. Why don’t you and watch row boats or judo or something

And there were plenty of ups and downs across the field but you two only seem interested in the winner. Shame.

I don't think it is really fair to suggest anyone who is not delirious with the way a sport is going needs to simply watch something else. Many folks here have been watching for decades and do have very valid points in my opinion.

I agree but some characters come back after every race and say “ohhhh how can anyone watch that...”. And then say the same thing a week later. It’s hilarious.

Well, yes, I agree there are some people that are just masochists!

[kambites]

DanielSan said:

If they want to be more green, as you say focus on the logistics side,

They don't want to be more green though. They want to encourage car manufacturers to join the series, and those car manufacturers only want to spend money on racing where they can use it as a marketing tool for their road cars, and the road car market is being pushed to be more green.