Official 2019 Spanish Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Discussion
Some interesting points.
In terms of where F1 cars are to go in the future i think we, as fans, as well as the governing body actually have a pretty difficult decision to make.
Do we want F1 to be:
A:
The fastest, most advanced, most impressive racing cars on the planet
or
B:
The best, most exciting race series on the planet.
As to me, the two simply cannot go hand in hand. We have today the technology to make F1 cars supremely powerful, reliable and aerodynamically efficient. This does not promote good racing. Evidence of this can be seen on a smaller scale up and down the motorsport world. Just the other week at Brands Hatch we had Blancpain GT cars on the bill. The big quick GT3 cars were lapping at some awesome speeds, the spectacle out in the countryside was superb (blah blah catch fencing GP loop blah) but the races itself, were dull.
The GT4 race however for more basic GTs cars? Superb. Close racing, as the cars have smaller brakes and less aero, so can follow each other and out brake each other.
So what do we want F1 to be, close racing at mega speed, with cars lapping ever faster?
or shall we essentially put the entire field into FF1600 cars and watch some amazing racing in cars with more power then grip, poor aero etc?
I know which i would choose. And after Spain, a race i turned off to watch football (something i am frankly astonished at) it cannot come soon enough.
In terms of where F1 cars are to go in the future i think we, as fans, as well as the governing body actually have a pretty difficult decision to make.
Do we want F1 to be:
A:
The fastest, most advanced, most impressive racing cars on the planet
or
B:
The best, most exciting race series on the planet.
As to me, the two simply cannot go hand in hand. We have today the technology to make F1 cars supremely powerful, reliable and aerodynamically efficient. This does not promote good racing. Evidence of this can be seen on a smaller scale up and down the motorsport world. Just the other week at Brands Hatch we had Blancpain GT cars on the bill. The big quick GT3 cars were lapping at some awesome speeds, the spectacle out in the countryside was superb (blah blah catch fencing GP loop blah) but the races itself, were dull.
The GT4 race however for more basic GTs cars? Superb. Close racing, as the cars have smaller brakes and less aero, so can follow each other and out brake each other.
So what do we want F1 to be, close racing at mega speed, with cars lapping ever faster?
or shall we essentially put the entire field into FF1600 cars and watch some amazing racing in cars with more power then grip, poor aero etc?
I know which i would choose. And after Spain, a race i turned off to watch football (something i am frankly astonished at) it cannot come soon enough.
rdjohn said:
I think VW introducing DSG in 2003 was the real game-changer for road cars. That was inspired by the Porsche 962. Not having the driver take their hands off the wheel is only a natural evolution. I have a mate who prefers autos, but never touches his paddles.
Historically, sequential gears have been the standard for motorbikes and cycles. It is surprising that F1 was so slow to ditch Dog gears in favour of something more exotic. But what they have now is “from another planet” compared to road cars.
I remember the Audi S1 Evo 2 Group B rally car having a DSG system at the end of 1985.Historically, sequential gears have been the standard for motorbikes and cycles. It is surprising that F1 was so slow to ditch Dog gears in favour of something more exotic. But what they have now is “from another planet” compared to road cars.
Presume the Porsche 962 system was slightly earlier?
I think this was the first rally it was entered as a test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFEdIu5N3p0&t=...
TheDeuce said:
I think they have impacted road cars though - sorry! Yes, I agree that the technology is different. But the presence of paddle shifting in F1 has made the idea more desirable in road cars. It would have happened in any case (in road cars), but initially the use of paddles in F1 was used to make the idea of paddles more sexy in the first performance road cars that used them.
There is a difference between saying the technology doesn't transfer, and saying it has no impact on what is developed elsewhere, and how it is sold to the customer.
That's a marketing influence rather than a technological one - which I would not argue against. After all, sponsors are very hopeful that the marketing power of F1 will work for them.There is a difference between saying the technology doesn't transfer, and saying it has no impact on what is developed elsewhere, and how it is sold to the customer.
Deesee said:
It was me, thanks for that.rdjohn said:
Deesee said:
It was me, thanks for that.
rdjohn said:
I think VW introducing DSG in 2003 was the real game-changer for road cars. That was inspired by the Porsche 962. Not having the driver take their hands off the wheel is only a natural evolution. I have a mate who prefers autos, but never touches his paddles.
Historically, sequential gears have been the standard for motorbikes and cycles. It is surprising that F1 was so slow to ditch Dog gears in favour of something more exotic. But what they have now is “from another planet” compared to road cars.
Really! Historically, sequential gears have been the standard for motorbikes and cycles. It is surprising that F1 was so slow to ditch Dog gears in favour of something more exotic. But what they have now is “from another planet” compared to road cars.
Motorbikes have had sequential gearboxes since the 60s or beyond!
BTCC cars had them in the 90s, so it took VAG an awful long time to "invent" them with the DSG - just how much do DSG clutches cost out of interest?
I'll stick to a manual gearbox thanks!
Mr Tidy said:
rdjohn said:
I think VW introducing DSG in 2003 was the real game-changer for road cars. That was inspired by the Porsche 962. Not having the driver take their hands off the wheel is only a natural evolution. I have a mate who prefers autos, but never touches his paddles.
Historically, sequential gears have been the standard for motorbikes and cycles. It is surprising that F1 was so slow to ditch Dog gears in favour of something more exotic. But what they have now is “from another planet” compared to road cars.
Really! Historically, sequential gears have been the standard for motorbikes and cycles. It is surprising that F1 was so slow to ditch Dog gears in favour of something more exotic. But what they have now is “from another planet” compared to road cars.
Motorbikes have had sequential gearboxes since the 60s or beyond!
BTCC cars had them in the 90s, so it took VAG an awful long time to "invent" them with the DSG - just how much do DSG clutches cost out of interest?
I'll stick to a manual gearbox thanks!
https://www.xtrac.com/product/p427-p545-p559-in-li...
Mr Tidy said:
I'll stick to a manual gearbox thanks!
I've got a problem with my left leg and I can't declutch more than a few times on a journey. I've had to go auto for some years now. I had a 7-speed auto with flappies on a 350 SLK. It made nonsense of manual changes. If you wanted to enjoy the power, you were forever changing gear. It was quicker to leave it in full auto. I used the paddles when on a corner as any change up near the apex used to unsettle the car a bit, and unsettle me a lot more, but apart from long hill climbs, that was the only use for the manual change.
I now prefer auto now. Most boxes have a manual override without the complexity of paddles. It is surprising how infrequently I use mine.
I drove a Prius. That was a bit odd as the engine seemed to stay at very narrow rev range. It was a bit like a DAF 55 a girlfriend used to drive.
But each to their own. I'm sure that if I had a left leg that worked properly I would have stuck with manual change - as well as not selling my TVR - but modern autos are pretty good.
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