Gasley - What's gone wrong?
Discussion
ELUSIVEJIM said:
thegreenhell said:
That was Helmut Marko... https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/marko-gasly-red...
Then Alonso will be joining in 2020 
Bottas to Williams
Alonso to Red Bull
kambites said:
ash73 said:
I seem to remember they wouldn't match Max's deal because he was younger and they thought he had more potential; and Danny left because of this.
I thought it was more that he didn't believe he would be offered equal treatment, but I'm not sure where I got that impression from. As for why not kvyatt to red bull to keep the seat warm while albon matures, what nobody's speculated yet: what if he did really well? Then what do red bull do?
768 said:
I'm sure they could, but doesn't that either mean Ricciardo or accepting their own driver programme couldn't fill the seat?
It does mean that, pretty much. Although who really cares if they effectively devalue their own driver programme? Upcoming talent would still be keen to sign up to the programme, even it is devalued, it's still a rare chance not to be sniffed at. Do we really care about these driver programmes? I get why the teams ended up with them, I get the point... But in the end if they can leapfrog Ferrari by abandoning their own programme and recruiting elsewhere, then I think they would.As an aside, I'm sure they would specifically love Ricciardo back. For the right money, just maybe he would say yes - it would certainly be a tricky one for him to mull over!!! I've always understood why he left, but on the other hand, seeing how that's worked out, I can equally understand why he might now consider coming back. He'll hopefully have a worthwhile third option at some point, but if the only two options were Renault or Red Bull, I wouldn't be amazed if he took the RB option.
rallycross said:
This could ruin Albon’s career, another stupid move by Redbull he’s only in his 9th F1 race he deserves some time to get experience before joining the top team.
You would sort of hope that Redbull realise this and hence have at least moderately reasonable expectations. I appreciate that "reasonable expectations" has perhaps not been a hallmark of Redbull's approach to their young drivers, though. kambites said:
You would sort of hope that Redbull realise this and hence have at least moderately reasonable expectations. I appreciate that "reasonable expectations" has perhaps not been a hallmark of Redbull's approach to their young drivers, though.
its not just red bulls expectations though is it - its the global media circus that will intensify. Although today's kids seem quite savvy to it, I was just pondering the other day in relation to Mick Schumacher and my opinions on his old man just how much we make commodities out of people, how they become this publically owned thing rather than a person with feelings.kambites said:
You would sort of hope that Redbull realise this and hence have at least moderately reasonable expectations. I appreciate that "reasonable expectations" has perhaps not been a hallmark of Redbull's approach to their young drivers, though.
They have the car to beat Ferrari next year, they just need the second driver. Hence, I don't think they can be very reasonable when it comes to what they expect. If Albon is amazing, he stays, if he isn't at least showing signs of being amazing a couple of races in this season, I think they'll be developing conversations with other potential drivers.I'm sure young Albon would like a gentler approach to the top but it's just not the way it's worked out. The reality is, he has to hit the ground running and prove himself almost immediately. Some pressure!
At least, he doesn't have to be as stunning as Max. He just has to be to Max what Bottas is to Lewis.
kambites said:
Still leaves open the question of what constitutes "success" for him though. Will they be happy if he's roughly on a par with Gasly's performance initially and then slowly improves throughout this season, or are they going to be expecting him to beat Ferraris in his first race?
I suppose first race just has to not be 'bad'. After that he will surely need to at least average as good as Gasly's better results, and show a general upward trajectory race by race. I think they'd at least need to believe he's well on track to beating Ferrari's after a few races - even if he hasn't actually managed it.Even then, who knows how safe the seat would really be. I'm convinced they will push to beat Ferrari next year, that is their obvious best goal/target and they will line themselves up to do that as best they can. If they think another driver is a better option, even if Albon has done very well, his seat would be at risk. Although, if he does do well and is let go regardless, his stock in the paddock will have risen so it wouldn't have been a waste of time.
Just 17 days and we can see the kid take the bull by the horns
groomi said:
The only problem with Red Bulls junior programme is Helmut Marko.
There was interview within in Motor Sport a while back that changed my view of him somewhat - for the better.He said that what he looks for in drivers is a tangible hunger. He mentioned that so many kids come through the ranks mollycoddled to the point that they expect success forgetting that they have to work at it. He mentioned one lad on their junior programme who was asked to drive a van to collect something or other but refused saying he was a racing driver, not a van driver.
StevieBee said:
He mentioned that so many kids come through the ranks mollycoddled to the point that they expect success forgetting that they have to work at it. He mentioned one lad on their junior programme who was asked to drive a van to collect something or other but refused saying he was a racing driver, not a van driver.
Remarkable.Fair to say Ricciardo and Verstappen are both peckish
A couple of poster have been questioning whether Gasly is ready to join the top team. Didn't LH start his F1 career in a top team, straight into McLaren? I think if drivers have it in them to get to F1, then going straight into, or at least fairly quickly into a top team is do-able.
For me, it raises another question, is Max such an exceptional talent, that almost any driver they put up against him will falter in the same way Gasly has. That Max is so good, no other driver will be able to get close to getting as much out of the car that Max does?
I'd love to see Max paired with LH, Vettel or LeClerc for that matter. It'd be interesting to see how they would do in equal machinery.
For me, it raises another question, is Max such an exceptional talent, that almost any driver they put up against him will falter in the same way Gasly has. That Max is so good, no other driver will be able to get close to getting as much out of the car that Max does?
I'd love to see Max paired with LH, Vettel or LeClerc for that matter. It'd be interesting to see how they would do in equal machinery.
StevieBee said:
groomi said:
The only problem with Red Bulls junior programme is Helmut Marko.
There was interview within in Motor Sport a while back that changed my view of him somewhat - for the better.He said that what he looks for in drivers is a tangible hunger. He mentioned that so many kids come through the ranks mollycoddled to the point that they expect success forgetting that they have to work at it. He mentioned one lad on their junior programme who was asked to drive a van to collect something or other but refused saying he was a racing driver, not a van driver.
AshVX220 said:
A couple of poster have been questioning whether Gasly is ready to join the top team. Didn't LH start his F1 career in a top team, straight into McLaren? I think if drivers have it in them to get to F1, then going straight into, or at least fairly quickly into a top team is do-able.
Yes and no. Hamilton had been nurtured (dare I say, groomed) for F1 by McLaren since his karting days, and was deemed to be ready. One gets the impression that Ron Dennis would not have promoted Hamilton to F1 until he was ready. Helmut Marko, on the other hand, has shown time and again that he's happy to pick his fruit before it is ripe.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
AshVX220 said:
A couple of poster have been questioning whether Gasly is ready to join the top team. Didn't LH start his F1 career in a top team, straight into McLaren? I think if drivers have it in them to get to F1, then going straight into, or at least fairly quickly into a top team is do-able.
Yes and no. Hamilton had been nurtured (dare I say, groomed) for F1 by McLaren since his karting days, and was deemed to be ready. One gets the impression that Ron Dennis would not have promoted Hamilton to F1 until he was ready. Helmut Marko, on the other hand, has shown time and again that he's happy to pick his fruit before it is ripe.
The cupboard was so bare they had to pull Kyvat into TR & if Albon doesn't work out will he have to admit he's failed & buy in a non junior team driver?
Clockwork Cupcake said:
Yes and no. Hamilton had been nurtured (dare I say, groomed) for F1 by McLaren since his karting days, and was deemed to be ready. One gets the impression that Ron Dennis would not have promoted Hamilton to F1 until he was ready.
Helmut Marko, on the other hand, has shown time and again that he's happy to pick his fruit before it is ripe.
You make a valid point.Helmut Marko, on the other hand, has shown time and again that he's happy to pick his fruit before it is ripe.
However I would not recommend mentioning the words Ron and Groomed in the same paragraph.
I know it’s not a 100% direct comparison, but Kimi was a little ‘raw’ when he got into F1, wasn’t his total single seater race experience something like 25 races, yet he seems to have done ok?
I think it will be very apparent, very quickly if Albon can keep up with the big boys.
I think it will be very apparent, very quickly if Albon can keep up with the big boys.
Edited by wibble cb on Monday 12th August 18:40
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Maybe the issue is that Verstappen is just too fast?
Albon has been good but I can only see him being in the exact same situation as Gasly.
Hopefully, I am wrong.
he's not *that* fast, or able to drive around problems so well. I pondered the same for a moment. Albon has been good but I can only see him being in the exact same situation as Gasly.
Hopefully, I am wrong.
Is there any WDC (as a handy measure of a great driver) that hasn't been beatable on occasion by a less than top draw driver having a good day?
Schu - bar/mas, ham - kov, alo - fis, and so on.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff