Gasley - What's gone wrong?
Discussion
Bo_apex said:
Teddy Lop said:
he's not *that* fast, or able to drive around problems so well. I pondered the same for a moment.
.
Would a broken seat and no power steering at Silverstone count as a problem ?.
rallycross said:
This could ruin Albon’s career, another stupid move by Redbull he’s only in his 9th F1 race he deserves some time to get experience before joining the top team.
That's my initial impression too. He does a seem a bit too nice for RB programme and wonder about his killer instinct, probably why he was dropped? Helmut obviously saw something with Ricciardo beside the Smiley Dan exterior. What favours Albon over Kvyat is that Albon likes an oversteering car; Gasly has been struggling getting on top of the car and setting it up; Max raising the bar with whatever's left on the RB conveyor belt of talent and showing how gifted a driver he is.
Bo_apex said:
The other RB seat may well be a poisoned chalice.
This has the dynamic whiff of Johnny Herbert at Benetton - he was very fast but could be 0.25 seconds down on Schumacher in just one corner.
Jos Verstappen was no better.
I just don't see it. Remember they promoted Danny Ricc and it was Seb who decided to walk. This has the dynamic whiff of Johnny Herbert at Benetton - he was very fast but could be 0.25 seconds down on Schumacher in just one corner.
Jos Verstappen was no better.
Horner gets flack for his outbursts but that Ama-Flix documentary series showed he relished having to two top drivers under his watch. The mutual respect between him and Abiteboul and the sadness of losing Ricc in the last episode said it all.
AshVX220 said:
A couple of poster have been questioning whether Gasly is ready to join the top team. Didn't LH start his F1 career in a top team, straight into McLaren? I think if drivers have it in them to get to F1, then going straight into, or at least fairly quickly into a top team is do-able.
For me, it raises another question, is Max such an exceptional talent, that almost any driver they put up against him will falter in the same way Gasly has. That Max is so good, no other driver will be able to get close to getting as much out of the car that Max does?
I'd love to see Max paired with LH, Vettel or LeClerc for that matter. It'd be interesting to see how they would do in equal machinery.
Worth remembering that David Coulthard was at times out of his depth in his first couple of years with Williams - best remembered for crashing into the pit barriers in Australia and yet he was still highly well regarded by Williams & McLaren and look how his F1 career turned: solid #2, dependable, race winner and frequently went toe to toe with Schumi.For me, it raises another question, is Max such an exceptional talent, that almost any driver they put up against him will falter in the same way Gasly has. That Max is so good, no other driver will be able to get close to getting as much out of the car that Max does?
I'd love to see Max paired with LH, Vettel or LeClerc for that matter. It'd be interesting to see how they would do in equal machinery.
Another good example is Massa. He was raw and unpolished, even in his first year with Ferrari. The Todts kept the faith. Only reason Marko is giving second chances is because his conveyor belt is f
ked.Deesee said:
Alex Albion understands the limit of adherence, he will get the most out of that Red Bull, will he be as quick as Max, I think so.
Max is clearly exceptional, there is very little chance of anyone being as quick as him in that team, regardless of whether it’s Gasly, Albon or Kvyat. Putting rookie drivers in at the top level is much more likely to break them than make them.Read up on what former drivers say about the pressure of being in a top team against an exceptional driver - they find themselves under the spotlight constantly under extreme pressure and then they have to deal with a more experienced driver who is also exceptionally quick - RedBull have repeatedly done this and it usually ends in a mess.
AshVX220 said:
A couple of poster have been questioning whether Gasly is ready to join the top team. Didn't LH start his F1 career in a top team, straight into McLaren? I think if drivers have it in them to get to F1, then going straight into, or at least fairly quickly into a top team is do-able.
For me, it raises another question, is Max such an exceptional talent, that almost any driver they put up against him will falter in the same way Gasly has. That Max is so good, no other driver will be able to get close to getting as much out of the car that Max does?
I'd love to see Max paired with LH, Vettel or LeClerc for that matter. It'd be interesting to see how they would do in equal machinery.
LH did start his career in a top team and with the reigning WC in the other car. But he did have 5000km of testing under his belt. That makes a big difference.For me, it raises another question, is Max such an exceptional talent, that almost any driver they put up against him will falter in the same way Gasly has. That Max is so good, no other driver will be able to get close to getting as much out of the car that Max does?
I'd love to see Max paired with LH, Vettel or LeClerc for that matter. It'd be interesting to see how they would do in equal machinery.
Max is the next dominant era defining driver, to take him on you need to be fast but have experience. I have no doubt Gasly, if he joined the team in 2021 would have been able to do a Riccardov Vettel on him. Albon is probably going to find that this is a career ending move. Not because he is not good enough, but because he doesn't have the experience. Again he needs to be joining that team in 2022.
Max v LH, would be tasty, v Leclerc, less so.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Maybe the issue is that Verstappen is just too fast?
Albon has been good but I can only see him being in the exact same situation as Gasly.
Hopefully, I am wrong.
I suspect it is like being team mate to Lewis... Albon has been good but I can only see him being in the exact same situation as Gasly.
Hopefully, I am wrong.
But the teams know the data, I don't think the expectation is to match Max, but they know what is possible and if the driver is managing tyres, driving to the strategy agreed, etc They aren't looking for 2 winners, they are looking for a solid wing man?
Deesee said:
Alex Albion understands the limit of adherence, he will get the most out of that Red Bull, will he be as quick as Max, I think so.
I rate the guy i have not looked at the potential penalty parts Gasly has raked up, by there’s a few podiums if it’s the same generation car as Max.
That's quite a prediction! No reason it can't prove true I suppose..I rate the guy i have not looked at the potential penalty parts Gasly has raked up, by there’s a few podiums if it’s the same generation car as Max.
Personally, I think Max has got the extra couple % of talent that makes the difference between the good and the great. It's entirely possible Albon does too - if he does he has to show it very quickly so we won't have long to find out
rallycross said:
Deesee said:
Alex Albion understands the limit of adherence, he will get the most out of that Red Bull, will he be as quick as Max, I think so.
Max is clearly exceptional, there is very little chance of anyone being as quick as him in that team, regardless of whether it’s Gasly, Albon or Kvyat. Putting rookie drivers in at the top level is much more likely to break them than make them.Read up on what former drivers say about the pressure of being in a top team against an exceptional driver - they find themselves under the spotlight constantly under extreme pressure and then they have to deal with a more experienced driver who is also exceptionally quick - RedBull have repeatedly done this and it usually ends in a mess.
Let look at the now, Red Bull would have looked at the GPS and inputs on a guy who first tested a F1 car 6 months ago, they like it and have given him a ‘life’ time drive...
RemarkLima said:
I'm not sure why people are saying this, seen it commented a few times, but given Kvyat has had his chance, seems like a case of doing the same thing and expecting different results!
So why did they give him the Torro Rosso seat? They saw that he had matured with time out?groomi said:
Was it Einstein who said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."
The only problem with Red Bull's junior programme is Helmut Marko.
Its time he was moved on as well.......I never get the impression he knows what he's doing.The only problem with Red Bull's junior programme is Helmut Marko.
Short of crashing consistently, and/or taking a dump in the team manager's breakfast plate - then a driver should be given the whole season. If he's good enough to earn the seat, at least give him the full season.
Deesee said:
I’m not so sure on exceptional, Good not great let’s say with Max, Dani Ric handled himself well against Max, some would say was a better driver....
Let look at the now, Red Bull would have looked at the GPS and inputs on a guy who first tested a F1 car 6 months ago, they like it and have given him a ‘life’ time drive...
Other than DNF's Max vs DR did indeed perform about the same. I think Max has evolved a little since last year, but maybe so has DR - it's hard to tell given the car he's currently driving around. On the basis that a driver needs to catch up a competitor AND overtake successfully though, DR is hard to beat. His ability to overtake cleanly several times a race is pretty unique.Let look at the now, Red Bull would have looked at the GPS and inputs on a guy who first tested a F1 car 6 months ago, they like it and have given him a ‘life’ time drive...
TheDeuce said:
Other than DNF's Max vs DR did indeed perform about the same.
Not in 2018 anyway. Max out qualified DR the majority of the time (as he did in 2017) and finished ahead of him in every race they both completed beyond the 6th race of the season.That's pretty conclusive in my opinion.
Dunc.
Edited by dunc_sx on Monday 12th August 23:01
dunc_sx said:
Not in 2018 anyway. Max out qualified DR the majority of the time (as he did in 2017) and finished ahead of him in every race they both completed beyond the 6th race of the season.
That's pretty conclusive in my opinion.
Dunc.
Danny DNFd 8 times, usually from high points positions, all mech plus being hit by team mate, max had 1 pure mech DNF. That's pretty conclusive in my opinion.
Dunc.
Edited by dunc_sx on Monday 12th August 23:01
Teddy Lop said:
dunc_sx said:
Not in 2018 anyway. Max out qualified DR the majority of the time (as he did in 2017) and finished ahead of him in every race they both completed beyond the 6th race of the season.
That's pretty conclusive in my opinion.
Dunc.
Danny DNFd 8 times, usually from high points positions, all mech plus being hit by team mate, max had 1 pure mech DNF. That's pretty conclusive in my opinion.
Dunc.
Edited by dunc_sx on Monday 12th August 23:01
Max last year was indeed stronger during qualifying but if it were not for the dnfs DR's ability to overtake and make up lost ground would have at least seen him draw equal overall.
Some drivers are excellent over one lap, max has that talent. DR's strength lies in his ability to stay cool throughout a race and make up places reliably - race after race, generally without incident.
Two different but imo very close drivers that together this season would have formed a very difficult combination of talents for Ferrari to combat.
Edited by TheDeuce on Tuesday 13th August 07:53
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