Gasley - What's gone wrong?

Gasley - What's gone wrong?

Author
Discussion

wibble cb

1,897 posts

162 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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I know it’s not a 100% direct comparison, but Kimi was a little ‘raw’ when he got into F1, wasn’t his total single seater race experience something like 25 races, yet he seems to have done ok?
I think it will be very apparent, very quickly if Albon can keep up with the big boys.

Edited by wibble cb on Monday 12th August 18:40

Teddy Lop

3,119 posts

22 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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ELUSIVEJIM said:
Maybe the issue is that Verstappen is just too fast?

Albon has been good but I can only see him being in the exact same situation as Gasly.

Hopefully, I am wrong.
he's not *that* fast, or able to drive around problems so well. I pondered the same for a moment.

Is there any WDC (as a handy measure of a great driver) that hasn't been beatable on occasion by a less than top draw driver having a good day?

Schu - bar/mas, ham - kov, alo - fis, and so on.

Bo_apex

1,100 posts

173 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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Teddy Lop said:
he's not *that* fast, or able to drive around problems so well. I pondered the same for a moment.

.
Would a broken seat and no power steering at Silverstone count as a problem ?


Stan the Bat

5,481 posts

167 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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A great driver will thrive under this sort of pressure.
If he's got it then it will soon be apparent.

I think it looks like he might have.

Teddy Lop

3,119 posts

22 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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Bo_apex said:
Teddy Lop said:
he's not *that* fast, or able to drive around problems so well. I pondered the same for a moment.

.
Would a broken seat and no power steering at Silverstone count as a problem ?
I meant so well as to account for the deficit gasly has, clues in the thread title and gist of conversation really.

entropy

3,831 posts

158 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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rallycross said:
This could ruin Albon’s career, another stupid move by Redbull he’s only in his 9th F1 race he deserves some time to get experience before joining the top team.
That's my initial impression too. He does a seem a bit too nice for RB programme and wonder about his killer instinct, probably why he was dropped? Helmut obviously saw something with Ricciardo beside the Smiley Dan exterior.

What favours Albon over Kvyat is that Albon likes an oversteering car; Gasly has been struggling getting on top of the car and setting it up; Max raising the bar with whatever's left on the RB conveyor belt of talent and showing how gifted a driver he is.

Bo_apex said:
The other RB seat may well be a poisoned chalice.

This has the dynamic whiff of Johnny Herbert at Benetton - he was very fast but could be 0.25 seconds down on Schumacher in just one corner.

Jos Verstappen was no better.
I just don't see it. Remember they promoted Danny Ricc and it was Seb who decided to walk.

Horner gets flack for his outbursts but that Ama-Flix documentary series showed he relished having to two top drivers under his watch. The mutual respect between him and Abiteboul and the sadness of losing Ricc in the last episode said it all.

AshVX220 said:
A couple of poster have been questioning whether Gasly is ready to join the top team. Didn't LH start his F1 career in a top team, straight into McLaren? I think if drivers have it in them to get to F1, then going straight into, or at least fairly quickly into a top team is do-able.

For me, it raises another question, is Max such an exceptional talent, that almost any driver they put up against him will falter in the same way Gasly has. That Max is so good, no other driver will be able to get close to getting as much out of the car that Max does?

I'd love to see Max paired with LH, Vettel or LeClerc for that matter. It'd be interesting to see how they would do in equal machinery.
Worth remembering that David Coulthard was at times out of his depth in his first couple of years with Williams - best remembered for crashing into the pit barriers in Australia and yet he was still highly well regarded by Williams & McLaren and look how his F1 career turned: solid #2, dependable, race winner and frequently went toe to toe with Schumi.

Another good example is Massa. He was raw and unpolished, even in his first year with Ferrari. The Todts kept the faith. Only reason Marko is giving second chances is because his conveyor belt is fked.

Deesee

3,923 posts

38 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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Alex Albion understands the limit of adherence, he will get the most out of that Red Bull, will he be as quick as Max, I think so.

I rate the guy i have not looked at the potential penalty parts Gasly has raked up, by there’s a few podiums if it’s the same generation car as Max.

rallycross

10,945 posts

192 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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Deesee said:
Alex Albion understands the limit of adherence, he will get the most out of that Red Bull, will he be as quick as Max, I think so.
Max is clearly exceptional, there is very little chance of anyone being as quick as him in that team, regardless of whether it’s Gasly, Albon or Kvyat. Putting rookie drivers in at the top level is much more likely to break them than make them.

Read up on what former drivers say about the pressure of being in a top team against an exceptional driver - they find themselves under the spotlight constantly under extreme pressure and then they have to deal with a more experienced driver who is also exceptionally quick - RedBull have repeatedly done this and it usually ends in a mess.

Dynion Araf Uchaf

2,501 posts

178 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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AshVX220 said:
A couple of poster have been questioning whether Gasly is ready to join the top team. Didn't LH start his F1 career in a top team, straight into McLaren? I think if drivers have it in them to get to F1, then going straight into, or at least fairly quickly into a top team is do-able.

For me, it raises another question, is Max such an exceptional talent, that almost any driver they put up against him will falter in the same way Gasly has. That Max is so good, no other driver will be able to get close to getting as much out of the car that Max does?

I'd love to see Max paired with LH, Vettel or LeClerc for that matter. It'd be interesting to see how they would do in equal machinery.
LH did start his career in a top team and with the reigning WC in the other car. But he did have 5000km of testing under his belt. That makes a big difference.

Max is the next dominant era defining driver, to take him on you need to be fast but have experience. I have no doubt Gasly, if he joined the team in 2021 would have been able to do a Riccardov Vettel on him. Albon is probably going to find that this is a career ending move. Not because he is not good enough, but because he doesn't have the experience. Again he needs to be joining that team in 2022.

Max v LH, would be tasty, v Leclerc, less so.

ELUSIVEJIM

7,903 posts

106 months

Vaud

36,385 posts

110 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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ELUSIVEJIM said:
Maybe the issue is that Verstappen is just too fast?

Albon has been good but I can only see him being in the exact same situation as Gasly.

Hopefully, I am wrong.
I suspect it is like being team mate to Lewis...

But the teams know the data, I don't think the expectation is to match Max, but they know what is possible and if the driver is managing tyres, driving to the strategy agreed, etc They aren't looking for 2 winners, they are looking for a solid wing man?

RemarkLima

845 posts

167 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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exelero said:
I’m surprised by this, I thought Kvyat would jump in instead
I'm not sure why people are saying this, seen it commented a few times, but given Kvyat has had his chance, seems like a case of doing the same thing and expecting different results!

TheDeuce

5,546 posts

21 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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Deesee said:
Alex Albion understands the limit of adherence, he will get the most out of that Red Bull, will he be as quick as Max, I think so.

I rate the guy i have not looked at the potential penalty parts Gasly has raked up, by there’s a few podiums if it’s the same generation car as Max.
That's quite a prediction! No reason it can't prove true I suppose..

Personally, I think Max has got the extra couple % of talent that makes the difference between the good and the great. It's entirely possible Albon does too - if he does he has to show it very quickly so we won't have long to find out smile

Deesee

3,923 posts

38 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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rallycross said:
Deesee said:
Alex Albion understands the limit of adherence, he will get the most out of that Red Bull, will he be as quick as Max, I think so.
Max is clearly exceptional, there is very little chance of anyone being as quick as him in that team, regardless of whether it’s Gasly, Albon or Kvyat. Putting rookie drivers in at the top level is much more likely to break them than make them.

Read up on what former drivers say about the pressure of being in a top team against an exceptional driver - they find themselves under the spotlight constantly under extreme pressure and then they have to deal with a more experienced driver who is also exceptionally quick - RedBull have repeatedly done this and it usually ends in a mess.
I’m not so sure on exceptional, Good not great let’s say with Max, Dani Ric handled himself well against Max, some would say was a better driver....

Let look at the now, Red Bull would have looked at the GPS and inputs on a guy who first tested a F1 car 6 months ago, they like it and have given him a ‘life’ time drive...

DanielSan

14,931 posts

122 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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I think the best way for RB/Albon to approach Spa and Monza is just to get used to the car, I don't think anyone can see them being close to the Mercedes there so get things right operationally and aim for/expect performances agent tracks get twisty again

Vaud

36,385 posts

110 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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RemarkLima said:
I'm not sure why people are saying this, seen it commented a few times, but given Kvyat has had his chance, seems like a case of doing the same thing and expecting different results!
So why did they give him the Torro Rosso seat? They saw that he had matured with time out?

ArnageWRC

1,112 posts

114 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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groomi said:
Was it Einstein who said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

The only problem with Red Bull's junior programme is Helmut Marko.
Its time he was moved on as well.......I never get the impression he knows what he's doing.

Short of crashing consistently, and/or taking a dump in the team manager's breakfast plate - then a driver should be given the whole season. If he's good enough to earn the seat, at least give him the full season.

TheDeuce

5,546 posts

21 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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Deesee said:
I’m not so sure on exceptional, Good not great let’s say with Max, Dani Ric handled himself well against Max, some would say was a better driver....

Let look at the now, Red Bull would have looked at the GPS and inputs on a guy who first tested a F1 car 6 months ago, they like it and have given him a ‘life’ time drive...
Other than DNF's Max vs DR did indeed perform about the same. I think Max has evolved a little since last year, but maybe so has DR - it's hard to tell given the car he's currently driving around. On the basis that a driver needs to catch up a competitor AND overtake successfully though, DR is hard to beat. His ability to overtake cleanly several times a race is pretty unique.

dunc_sx

1,155 posts

152 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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TheDeuce said:
Other than DNF's Max vs DR did indeed perform about the same.
Not in 2018 anyway. Max out qualified DR the majority of the time (as he did in 2017) and finished ahead of him in every race they both completed beyond the 6th race of the season.

That's pretty conclusive in my opinion.

Dunc.

Edited by dunc_sx on Monday 12th August 23:01

CoolHands

10,932 posts

150 months

Monday 12th August 2019
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They just want someone to pick up more points than Gasly. I don’t think they need, want or care for the driver to be matching Max. Horner clearly said they want more points from the number 2 to get ahead of Ferrari.