Gasley - What's gone wrong?

Gasley - What's gone wrong?

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slipstream 1985

6,481 posts

123 months

Monday 1st July
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TheDeuce said:
slipstream 1985 said:
Lapped by your teammate when at turn 2? he was right behind him... This is the man who had used the honda engine all last season and should have found it an easy jump.
  • Lapped by your team mate who also proved the same car could win the GP.
To be fair the change to a red bull is much more about their car design than PU. But then, also to be fair, his drive yesterday was unforgivably, awkwardly slow and there must come a point at which everyone has to stop being polite about that fact...
Max jumped from torro rosso to redbull and won. Russel jumoed from his williams into the mercedes team and set a fastest time at a testing session didn't he? Good drivers jump into anything and quickly adapt.

Red bull will be feeling the loss of daniel riccardo as they would likely now be 2nd in the championship with him.

SturdyHSV

6,395 posts

111 months

Monday 1st July
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Apparently pushed too hard right at the start of the second stint and destroyed the hard tyre, massive blisters and thus was shafted for the rest of the race.

Still a driver error, but it presumably wasn't representative of his actual pace.

A shame given the car was more competitive than expected he could have had a good showing

sgtBerbatov

1,580 posts

25 months

Monday 1st July
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Red Bull seem to be a throwback to Bennetton of the early 90's to me. They're building around Verstappen and the 2nd driver will just be there to make up the numbers.

I could see a swap between Gasly and Kvyat before the year is out though.

geeks

Original Poster:

4,480 posts

83 months

Monday 1st July
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Not great weekend for him, it has to be time to reinstall the Russian Torpedo surely? Or give Albon the chance he is chomping at the bit for...

Still feel for Gasly I think he is fine driver but the RB outfit doesn't suit him but there isnt anywhere else for him in F1 to find his feet.

groomi

9,193 posts

187 months

Monday 1st July
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I think Red Bull have proven over the years to be too aggressive in forcing their drivers through to the top team and then spitting them out if they don't prove to be a Vettel or Verstappen.

They let go the likes of JEV (Not sorry about the TLA), Sainz jr and ofcourse Ricciardo - all of whom I'm confident would be delivering at least a solid base of points for the team right now. They also treated Kvyat appallingly to make way for Verstappen, which they have at least had the decency to give him another chance in the junior team - a chance which I have to say, he is doing well with considering how low his confidence must have been when he was kicked out of the team originally.

Gasly had a great season last year, but he had zero experience of overcoming any performance difficulties. He's looked out of sorts at RB since pre-season testing and I think they just pushed him up to the senior team too quickly. This could now break a promising career.

In contrast, Albon has not really stood out to me. I certainly don't think he would fare any better at RB, so swapping the drivers would be complete folly.

For me, the sensible move would be to swap Kvyat and Gasly around. Make it clear to Kvyat that his job is to score points behind Max and keep the seat warm - if he can up his game beyond that, then more power to him. To Albon and Gasly, it would be a straight shoot-out. You have until the next young gun is ready to step up to prove who is best.

Lebo44

90 posts

4 months

Monday 1st July
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Interesting...

Kubica said:
I am lacking overall grip and in these conditions when it is hot, when there is a lot of overheating and the tyres are suffering a lot, I am just sliding even more.
Gasly said:
I'm sliding too much, basically. I think it's being a bit too aggressive with the car, asking a bit too much to the rear axle so stressing the rear.

slipstream 1985

6,481 posts

123 months

Monday 1st July
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groomi said:
I think Red Bull have proven over the years to be too aggressive in forcing their drivers through to the top team and then spitting them out if they don't prove to be a Vettel or Verstappen.

They let go the likes of JEV (Not sorry about the TLA), Sainz jr and ofcourse Ricciardo - all of whom I'm confident would be delivering at least a solid base of points for the team right now. They also treated Kvyat appallingly to make way for Verstappen, which they have at least had the decency to give him another chance in the junior team - a chance which I have to say, he is doing well with considering how low his confidence must have been when he was kicked out of the team originally.

Gasly had a great season last year, but he had zero experience of overcoming any performance difficulties. He's looked out of sorts at RB since pre-season testing and I think they just pushed him up to the senior team too quickly. This could now break a promising career.

In contrast, Albon has not really stood out to me. I certainly don't think he would fare any better at RB, so swapping the drivers would be complete folly.

For me, the sensible move would be to swap Kvyat and Gasly around. Make it clear to Kvyat that his job is to score points behind Max and keep the seat warm - if he can up his game beyond that, then more power to him. To Albon and Gasly, it would be a straight shoot-out. You have until the next young gun is ready to step up to prove who is best.
They didn't let go of Riccardo he went and they wanted to keep him. I think they knew gasly wasnt ready but their hand was forced.

enjo

337 posts

82 months

Monday 1st July
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Europa1 said:
You could at least spell the guy's name correctly.
Ghastly?

Rumours of the Hulk - could be tempting for him to get that elusive podium if true?
I'd love to see it but I'm not sure they would they snub their junior dev program like that.

Jay_87

976 posts

148 months

Monday 1st July
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slipstream 1985 said:
They didn't let go of Riccardo he went and they wanted to keep him. I think they knew gasly wasnt ready but their hand was forced.
Agree with this.

The reason Albon got the STR drive was because of a Red Bull driver shortage, dont forget he had already signed with Nissan to race in F.E.

Is/Was Gasly ready for Red Bull? I'm not so sure. I think they suffer with "Verstappen" fear in that they worry that if the don't promote the younger guys quick enough they'll leave and drive elsewhere, Ferrari did it with Leclerc but so far its paying off with him. RBR should've stuck with Sainz and promoted him, he's more than worthy of a top team.

Also I don't see Gasly as a potential future champion, I don't think you can mention him in the same bracket as Verstappen, Leclerc, Norris or Ocon when talking about the current crop of young drivers.

groomi

9,193 posts

187 months

Monday 1st July
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slipstream 1985 said:
They didn't let go of Riccardo he went and they wanted to keep him. I think they knew gasly wasnt ready but their hand was forced.
I meant that they let him go in the sense that they were unable/didn't want to stop him.

That's not a criticism of Red Bull, I'm sure Ricciardo is a fairly determined person once he's made a decision. But they could have made other choices, they didn't have to push Gasly up.

TheDeuce

2,563 posts

10 months

Monday 1st July
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groomi said:
I meant that they let him go in the sense that they were unable/didn't want to stop him.

That's not a criticism of Red Bull, I'm sure Ricciardo is a fairly determined person once he's made a decision. But they could have made other choices, they didn't have to push Gasly up.
I think they must have refused to consider a one year contract with DR. I understand the reasons he chose to leave. But those reasons wouldn't make such sense if he had a one year option to see what the new honda PU was all about. He must have been curious about the possibility of a far more reliable red bull car. He's young enough to have given it a single year if he had that option - hence, I don't think they did give that option.

enjo

337 posts

82 months

Monday 1st July
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TheDeuce said:
I think they must have refused to consider a one year contract with DR. I understand the reasons he chose to leave. But those reasons wouldn't make such sense if he had a one year option to see what the new honda PU was all about. He must have been curious about the possibility of a far more reliable red bull car. He's young enough to have given it a single year if he had that option - hence, I don't think they did give that option.
Christian Horner stated on the Beyond the Grid podcast they offered everything he was asking including a 1 year contract and he still wanted to go.

rallycross

10,168 posts

181 months

Monday 1st July
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enjo said:
Christian Horner stated on the Beyond the Grid podcast they offered everything he was asking including a 1 year contract and he still wanted to go.
If there is one person in F1 that you'd not take single word he says at face value as being true, its CH.

TheDeuce

2,563 posts

10 months

Monday 1st July
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enjo said:
TheDeuce said:
I think they must have refused to consider a one year contract with DR. I understand the reasons he chose to leave. But those reasons wouldn't make such sense if he had a one year option to see what the new honda PU was all about. He must have been curious about the possibility of a far more reliable red bull car. He's young enough to have given it a single year if he had that option - hence, I don't think they did give that option.
Christian Horner stated on the Beyond the Grid podcast they offered everything he was asking including a 1 year contract and he still wanted to go.
You know what, I listened to that one too - fair enough, if that's what he said that's what he said. I clearly didn't recall that nugget of info.

We will never know the detail though. There may have been unsatisfactory terms applied to the one year deal option. If we accept that DR was weighing up his options - if they had genuinely offered him everything he wanted as a single package (not some things he wanted with a 3 year deal, the other things via a 1 year...) then he would still be there wouldn't he?

I'm sure that they offered him everything he wanted at points throughout the negotiation. What CH says could be true, but it could also be true that they never offered everything he wanted at one time, as one package. Given that we know nothing of the detail and that the process of negotiation was probably informally started at least a year ahead of the announcement, there is plenty of room for doubt as to how generous they really were with terms or willingness. Add in that his greatest concern was favouritism of Max - would they really put into the contract that that would not be the case? Or would there be endless clauses which would trigger selection of a priority driver under certain circumstances - all loaded to ensure that no matter what Max did, it would generally fall in his favour?

The only facts are:

1) He negotiated - so he was open to staying.

2) He left - so not 'everything' he wanted could have been offered as a single package. Otherwise why spend months negotiating in the first place? You wouldn't do that and then walk away if in the end they said yes to everything you wanted.

The only third way is that Renault somehow showed him something amazing that they have cunningly kept hidden from race weekends since, or perhaps - lovely chap as he is - he's a screwdriver short of a toolkit. Doesn't seem that way to me though, he seems like the guy that takes time out and really thinks his options through.

slipstream 1985

6,481 posts

123 months

Tuesday 2nd July
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Either way Danni has now slipped into that midfield medeocracy pool of drivers and reputations as one of the top 3 has defo faded. I know he has not lost any ability but it is defo hurting his career if the renault doesnt come good.

TheDeuce

2,563 posts

10 months

Tuesday 2nd July
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slipstream 1985 said:
Either way Danni has now slipped into that midfield medeocracy pool of drivers and reputations as one of the top 3 has defo faded. I know he has not lost any ability but it is defo hurting his career if the renault doesnt come good.
From our perspective yes. If a team is looking for a driver they won't be fooled in to forgetting he's a strong talent just because he's stuck behind the wheel of not particularly good car.

If it goes beyond a year or two though, as a sporting personality he's going to be less appealing - they want stars as well as talent, from a sponsorship point of view.

Painful seeing him with the Renault - I would love to see him find another seat next year, although that might be impossible unless someone is willing to pay him out of his current contract.

Jasandjules

62,894 posts

173 months

Tuesday 2nd July
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slipstream 1985 said:
Either way Danni has now slipped into that midfield medeocracy pool of drivers and reputations as one of the top 3 has defo faded. I know he has not lost any ability but it is defo hurting his career if the renault doesnt come good.
I thought Renault on Sky interviews was saying that they were basically adjusting the car to suit him which is why he started to improve. I guess if that doesn't pay off........ But I did think that sounded a bit rough on the Hulk.

TheDeuce

2,563 posts

10 months

Tuesday 2nd July
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Jasandjules said:
slipstream 1985 said:
Either way Danni has now slipped into that midfield medeocracy pool of drivers and reputations as one of the top 3 has defo faded. I know he has not lost any ability but it is defo hurting his career if the renault doesnt come good.
I thought Renault on Sky interviews was saying that they were basically adjusting the car to suit him which is why he started to improve. I guess if that doesn't pay off........ But I did think that sounded a bit rough on the Hulk.
They probably meant specifically his car. Not the overall upgrade philosophy of both cars. That said, I suppose if they did steer all future developments to what he wanted - and it worked for him, it could be argued that he has taken them a good route and Hulk should adapt to the 'better' car.

In any case, step changes are good, especially if they compliment their strongest driver. However, they are step changes, it's not going to transform the car to a different category. Top of the middle perhaps but it's a long way off mixing it with the top three, at least with any consistency and not relying on freak incidents etc.

mat205125

15,640 posts

157 months

Thursday 4th July
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slipstream 1985 said:
Part of me wonders if red bull would be ahead of ferrari if danni was still there.
Kvyat? wink

TheDeuce

2,563 posts

10 months

Thursday 4th July
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mat205125 said:
slipstream 1985 said:
Part of me wonders if red bull would be ahead of ferrari if danni was still there.
Kvyat? wink
They almost certainly would. In a previous post I did some basic maths and any driver team mate capable of netting 80% of Max's points so far this season would be sufficient to do that.

Obviously a more competitive driver would sometimes take points from Max so it's not an exact science trying to work out what could have been.. But by the same token, another hot driver at RB would also have taken more points from Ferrari too.

In a nutshell, 1 max and anyone else 'nearly' as good as a second Max and Ferrari would need to work a lot harder to avoid placing third in the WCC.

DR is more than a nearly Max, I would say the two are very different in some ways but are more or less equal talents. If DR's endless DNF's last season are considered, the points they both took were pretty equal.

Ferrari will almost certainly be the second team this year as a result - they were bloody lucky that Gasly has performed as he has, because on merit, it could/would have been RB in second come the end of the season.