Would a London Grand Prix kill off the Silverstone race?

[thegreenhell]

StevieBee said:

SydneyBridge said:

didn't they used to have a European GP that used to be in a different place every year?

Yep. The European GP afforded countries the opportunities to host additional races, generally to accommodate heighted interest for certain drivers from those countries. Germany hosted it during the Schummacher era. Spain too (Valencia) when Alonso was winning – although I’m not sure that was referred to as the European GP.

Brands Hatch hosted the European GP twice in the 80s, and Donington in '93, all in years when Silverstone had the British GP.

[ukaskew]

I watch a fair bit of Formula E and as a TV viewer it doesn't really make any difference where they are, 90% of the time you're watching an angle that has nothing but concrete and fencing in the background.

It's never going to be like Metropolis Street Racer, driving over Westminster Bridge, around Picadilly Circus etc, so it's not going to be iconic like Monaco or as impressive as Singapore or even Baku.

It'll be a generic street circuit in a part of London where there can be the least disruption possible.

[RoverP6B]

And that's the rub. If they're going to do it, go big or go home. It needs to be in the heart of the city with all the most iconic locations, and to hell with what Sadiq Khan and the Green Party think.

[StevieBee]

Europa1 said:

At the risk of making this thread degenerate into yet another Brexit thread, I had understood that EU state aid rules make it very difficult for governments to subsidise race circuits.

Quite rightly, no EU member state may use EU money to support a race (or any major sporting event) in their country but there is nothing stopping that country throwing their own money at it. The Welsh Government were (and I assume still are) keen to support the Circuit of Wales on the basis of the jobs it would create as a result of the adjoining technology park.

As far as I'm aware though, no European F1 race receives any government subsidy. Hungary used to but stands on its own financial feet these days.

David Cameron lifted the restrictions that required races on public roads to be granted only following the passing of a special bill. To date, apart from the odd rally, no local authority has taken up the opportunity.

[big_rob_sydney]

Lived here for almost 15 years, and despite originally being a huge F1 fan, and having been to other races, I just couldnt get interested in Silverstone. Why?
1. Expensive
2. Hard to get to by public transport from where we live
3. If driving, continually hearing dramas about parking
4. Visibility; lots of comments about it being an ex airfield, and therefore the grandstands are far from the circuit, so its hard to see anything

Didn't Vettel say a club sandwich on site was some ridiculous price as well?

And on top of all that, the cars don't sound like they used to, so it's not the "event" it used to be.

Why put up with all that crap? Plenty of other things I'd rather do.

[TheDeuce]

I suppose, to answer the original question - yes. Of course we can't have two British GP's so if we had one in London it would be the new British GP.

If the question was which would be better... I think a street circuit in a historic city is always going to be very appealing. Hard to argue with London's historic credentials - many of the central streets are more or less as the Roman's built them. Such a race could be hyped beyond belief, even if it was totally impractical in reality.

It won't ever happen. But if it did, it would be very interesting and I would be there. I believe it would be more engaging than what Silverstone has become.

[Mr Tidy]

Well the Baku event is in a historic city, but the track is in the historic part of the city.

Any London GP would no doubt be in the Docklands wilderness with no historic significance any more because it's all been redeveloped, and it's even harder to get to from the West of London than Silverstone, Donnington or Brands Hatch!

I went to the Masters Historic event at Brands in May on the GP circuit and it was fantastic, with a view of nearly half the circuit from Paddock Hill - as well as being way cheaper than the ticket price of the Silverstone GP!

I've never been to the GP weekend at Silverstone because the prices, boggy car park stories and queues put me off - plus it's as flat as a pancake so you don't see too much unless there is a big screen!

But I found myself in Melbourne on business for the 2010 GP weekend - general entry tickets for race day were AU$100 (about £65) yet Silverstone tickets later that year started at £125 I think. So I didn't go.

[Deesee]

It’s been given some thought in the past

2004 layout



2013 layout



3D race with Jenson and Lewis

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx7neIAVbxo

[coppice]

RoverP6B said:

Silverstone as a track is as dull as dishwater, and always has been. Rip up the circuit, tear down that eyesore "Wing" building and return it to being what it was designed to be - an airfield. Ditto Snetterton, Croft etc. If there's one type of circuit even more guaranteed to produce boring racing, it's WW2 bomber airfields...

Take the F1 back to Brands, maybe extend the track for a longer lap if possible, but keep it broadly as it is and stuff sweaty Nomex in the mouth of anyone who suggests big tarmac run-off zones.

The London GP would be a fantastic money-spinner if put on in the West End - Whitehall, the Mall, Regent Street sort of area. If they put it on down in Tower Hamlets, forget it - it'd look like Singapore without any of the glamour. Valencia was a rubbish circuit but the setting was fantastic, with those beautiful Art Nouveau buildings beside the track.

Perhaps a question for another thread, but if the UK was to build its own Spa/Nürburgring, where to put it? Maybe using existing road layouts as Spa originally did?

I harbour a certain affection for airfield tracks - Silverstone was wonderful back in the day when you could be in the same post code of the cars on track. Croft is fine and Thruxton is terrific , as is Goodwood .

But GP back at Brands - oh God yes- I went to them all from 72 and 86 and it was wonderful . .

An F1 car between Invergarry and Kyle of Lochalsh would be something - but completing the circuit would be tough - not sure Liberty are ready fro 100mile laps...

I will settle for the Grand Prix de Cadwell -no finer circuit for viewing . Bit tight for the current lardy F1 car but ...err... Coppice at 150plus ? God yes .

Edited by coppice on Thursday 4th July 08:08

[TheDeuce]

That video represents just how big of a push they gave towards having a London GP. And still, it didn't happen.

I doubt it ever will, I doubt it more so now than I did back when it was being seriously considered. A little sad as I do think it would become a much one of the highlights of the calendar - even though the circuit itself would be compromised from a racing perspective in several ways.

[StevieBee]

coppice said:

But GP back at Brands - oh God yes

Brands is 'my circuit'. I love the place. First race I ever watched was the Shell Oil 1000kms in 82 - followed by the GP the same year. Been going there every year since. I think I know every rock and blade of grass at the place.

But there's a problem.

It's become a circuit where the only good racing it generates is salon car stuff and some of the historic series. This isn't the circuit's fault. Single seat race car evolution has meant that even the very junior categories, the cars stick to the road like glue with braking efficiency so good that they barely touch them on a lap. The only one real overtaking spot is Druids.

Champ Cars raced there in 2005 and in the entire race, not a single overtake took place. Not one! A1GP didn't provide much racing spectacle even on the GP loop. I fear F1 would be much the same.

They could change the layout but would run the risk of loosing the very essence of the place.

[chunder27]

I seriously do not think Palmer would ever sign away that much money to host an event, he refused to do it with with Superbikes and dropped the biggest round of the series with the highest attendance as he did not want to pay hosting fees.

Then set up his own series and now runs over half the rounds at his tracks to maximise his profit, removing rounds from areas like Ireland, Croft, Mallory and a few others, and also oddly travelling to Holland, which makes me sick to the stomach.

So, he would never pay the fees for a start, and the track would have to be butchered, and he would never pay for that either. Plus watching on the long circuit now is a very different and sad experience after the fencing and banning in certain areas happened.

As for London, I would like to see it happen merely to force Silverstone to take a look at themselves as that place is a greedy, penny pinching dump.

Yet, you all flock there like lemmings, interesting.

I can't see London ever closing down for an F1 race, and why should they, the place is 70% foreigners and tourists who would not understand what the hell was going on anyway!

[coppice]

chunder27 said:

Yet, you all flock there like lemmings, interesting.

I can't see London ever closing down for an F1 race, and why should they, the place is 70% foreigners and tourists who would not understand what the hell was going on anyway!

1 I go to Silverstone- warts and all -not because I am a lemming , but because of the cars I can see there. I have been going there for 48 years because I want to , OK ? I am a grown up and so please don't insult me , or other people, who don't share your Eeyore persona . I prefer enjoying the ointment than gleefully finding the fly

2 London full of foreigners ? Yup and that is part of its appeal as somewhere a bit more cosmopolitan than my normal habitat .

[Europa1]

With the proposals for circuits taking in the "classic landmarks", I just can't see how they will be able to build enough grandstands to make it anything like viable for the promoter. I suspect ticket prices would make Silverstone look bargain basement by comparison.

[Castrol for a knave]

chunder27 said:

I seriously do not think Palmer would ever sign away that much money to host an event, he refused to do it with with Superbikes and dropped the biggest round of the series with the highest attendance as he did not want to pay hosting fees.

Then set up his own series and now runs over half the rounds at his tracks to maximise his profit, removing rounds from areas like Ireland, Croft, Mallory and a few others, and also oddly travelling to Holland, which makes me sick to the stomach.

So, he would never pay the fees for a start, and the track would have to be butchered, and he would never pay for that either. Plus watching on the long circuit now is a very different and sad experience after the fencing and banning in certain areas happened.

As for London, I would like to see it happen merely to force Silverstone to take a look at themselves as that place is a greedy, penny pinching dump.

Yet, you all flock there like lemmings, interesting.

I can't see London ever closing down for an F1 race, and why should they, the place is 70% foreigners and tourists who would not understand what the hell was going on anyway!

Good points.

Hosting F1 is a poisoned chalice - it costs the circuit money. You have to sell a lot of overpriced butties to recoup the cost of the required spec (on and off the track) and the actual operating costs.

[Deesee]

25 million race fee to get 2000000+ people in and out, Transport for London will almost that in tube/bus fees over the three days.

Do it on a bank holiday, make it a night race..

[thegreenhell]

chunder27 said:

As for London, I would like to see it happen merely to force Silverstone to take a look at themselves as that place is a greedy, penny pinching dump.

Yet, you all flock there like lemmings, interesting.

You think Silverstone is greedy?

It is the sport of F1 that is greedy. Silverstone makes a loss on the GP, with the hosting fees, trackside advertising, paddock hospitality etc that goes directly to F1, while the circuit can only try to make back its costs from ticket sales and concessions. F1 forces the circuit to make the prices you pay what they are if the event is to be remotely viable financially.

[chunder27]

The contract was signed by someone who knew what they were signing, and were stupid enough to sign it all those years ago, I have no sympathy. Nurburgring and one or two others said many years ago "f*** you it's too dear, and fair play to them.

An event that costs that much to attend is frankly crazy, then you read comments about people being charged 30 odd quid to park their car for a day and it becomes embarrassing and rather worrying to be honest.

This is what I don't understand about modern F1 fans and their desperation to see F1 in this country, it's expensive anywhere admittedly, but other venues are SO SO SO much nicer and more of an event.

Look at what Australis does on an F1 weekend, it is what F1 should be every country it visits, a celebration of motorsport in that country, at Silverstone it is all tied up in contracts series that HAVE to be there, and the lack of space (laughable in an area so big) means nothing else can race there.

There should be BTCC on, British GT, celeb races, top historic stuff, just like it used to be, not the boring, tried same noise stuff that is offered up now.

Yet, as I say they still keep falling off the cliff edge every year, bless em.

[ricky301973]

I decided to look at it from this angle; the key thing is the Silverstone track itself, it does'nt have the current fascination of street races, for me personally i dislike some of them given the current design and spec of f1 cars we need better designed tracks you see i feel the current issue of overtaking could in part be helped by designing new tracks with better chances to overtake and NOT tracks like monaco which is basically a conga line unless a car breaks in some way! silverstone has retained this to a degree and i miss tracks like turkey and others which have some amazing twists and turns then que London surely going to be another street circuit tight so great for the individual driver as a challenge but crap for fans who are wanting to see challenges into corners and feel in the long term it will just be another conga line.

[entropy]

StevieBee said:

Brands is 'my circuit'. I love the place. First race I ever watched was the Shell Oil 1000kms in 82 - followed by the GP the same year. Been going there every year since. I think I know every rock and blade of grass at the place.

But there's a problem.

It's become a circuit where the only good racing it generates is salon car stuff and some of the historic series. This isn't the circuit's fault. Single seat race car evolution has meant that even the very junior categories, the cars stick to the road like glue with braking efficiency so good that they barely touch them on a lap. The only one real overtaking spot is Druids.

Champ Cars raced there in 2005 and in the entire race, not a single overtake took place. Not one! A1GP didn't provide much racing spectacle even on the GP loop. I fear F1 would be much the same.

They could change the layout but would run the risk of loosing the very essence of the place.

Glad a veteran shares this view. Always hear what a great race track it is, great viewing but contemporary thoroughbred race cars aren't much of a spectacle. For all its faults at least at Silverstone you can be a metre away from the apex and see high speed direction changes.