Official 2019 British Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

Official 2019 British Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

Author
Discussion

Hungrymc

6,629 posts

136 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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I guess if the Merc battle added nothing to the race for so many fans, you have to question if it’s worth them continuing to allow the drivers to race. No point risking any more than necessary if it adds no value. I enjoyed it and hope they continue, but I guess I’m in the minority.

We saw some battling in pit lane again. I know the speeds are low but I hate seeing a car pulling out along side another while passing other teams crews, it’s a tiny mistake away from ploughing through half a pit crew. It’s exciting but bearing in mind one has to yield by pit exit, I’m not sure it’s worth the risk of allowing them along side each other.

zebra

4,555 posts

213 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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REALIST123 said:

Clearly not.

“Bottas admits tyre choice at first pit stop was a “mistake”

2019 British Grand Prix Posted on
14th July 2019, 21:00 | Written by Dieter Rencken and Keith Collantine

Valtteri Bottas says his choice of tyre at his first pit stop was a “mistake” because it locked him into a two-stop strategy.

Bottas, who led the opening laps of the race, was the first of the two Mercedes drivers to pit. He put on a second set of medium compound tyres, which ensured he would have to make a second pit stop later in the race.
At that point he was trying to stay close enough to Lewis Hamilton to ensure his team mate came out of the pits behind him.

“After my first stop I felt like it was under control,” said Bottas. “I was following the gap closely, the pit stop gap I had to Lewis, and I was just waiting for him to stop and obviously the Safety Car got him ahead of me at that point.


“I was stuck into a two-stop at that stage, because we stopped for the medium again from medium tyres so it meant anyway I had to stop in the end, which was a mistake from our side. A two-stop, we thought, would be by far the fastest but actually one stop was possible as well. Not quite ideal but one of these days.”

Bottas, who has fallen 39 points behind his team mate at the top of the points standings, drew some consolation by Mercedes’ one-two finish after their tough weekend in Austria.

“At least it felt like the pace was good today and yesterday so there are positives to take,” he said. “Also, really, really happy for us as a team, getting maximum points and it’s pretty impressive the gap to the teams behind now.”

He also prevailed in a hard-fought battle with Hamilton in the opening laps of the race. “we had good racing at the beginning and I really enjoyed it,” he said.

“That’s why we are here, to race hard and fair. I’m sure Toto [Wolff, team principal] didn’t maybe enjoy it as much as we did but it doesn’t matter.”
........so Hamilton decided to go long for his first stop saving himself a pitstop. That would have likely produced the same result, so the safety car, whilst lucky, was still an irrelevance as Hamilton would have passed Bottas during his second pitstop.

HustleRussell

24,599 posts

159 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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DeltonaS said:
Sorry, but missed the part were the fight for the lead between the two Merc drivers got really exciting.
You didn’t watch the first quarter of the race then?

I know you only have eyes for your homeboy Max, but I think you should allow yourself to acknowledge that there are 19 other drivers out there too.

blueg33

35,401 posts

223 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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The race I saw had good racing and action throughout the field.

From comments on this thread I think some people were watching a different race.

Derek Smith

45,459 posts

247 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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blueg33 said:
The race I saw had good racing and action throughout the field.

From comments on this thread I think some people were watching a different race.
Not to mention a different season.

The total dominance of Mercedes is such that they win every race. Oh! apart from the previous one of course. The Mercs elsewhere were all over the rest of the field with lots in hand we are told. Except Baku of course, where the Ferrari, in the hands of a rookie driver, had the win on a plate until the engine decided to play up.

We've had three great races this season. That's three. Any season with three great races in it would have been called a great one, and we've got half of this one still to go, with RB on the up, Ferrari with unrealised potential and, on top of all of that, we are seeing one of the best three drivers in F1 that I've ever seen not only show his stuff every race, but, unlikely though it sounds, improve.

Fans in the future will look back at this season and say they were sorry to have missed it live.

Anyone who can moan about the state of GP racing at the moment really needs to go into a darkened room and think about their attitudes. Or be locked in one, away from F1 forums.

The only things to criticise this season is the TV director and Jordan. Apart from them, this is great.


Derek Smith

45,459 posts

247 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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zebra said:
REALIST123 said:

Clearly not.

“Bottas admits tyre choice at first pit stop was a “mistake”

2019 British Grand Prix Posted on
14th July 2019, 21:00 | Written by Dieter Rencken and Keith Collantine

Valtteri Bottas says his choice of tyre at his first pit stop was a “mistake” because it locked him into a two-stop strategy.

Bottas, who led the opening laps of the race, was the first of the two Mercedes drivers to pit. He put on a second set of medium compound tyres, which ensured he would have to make a second pit stop later in the race.
At that point he was trying to stay close enough to Lewis Hamilton to ensure his team mate came out of the pits behind him.

“After my first stop I felt like it was under control,” said Bottas. “I was following the gap closely, the pit stop gap I had to Lewis, and I was just waiting for him to stop and obviously the Safety Car got him ahead of me at that point.


“I was stuck into a two-stop at that stage, because we stopped for the medium again from medium tyres so it meant anyway I had to stop in the end, which was a mistake from our side. A two-stop, we thought, would be by far the fastest but actually one stop was possible as well. Not quite ideal but one of these days.”

Bottas, who has fallen 39 points behind his team mate at the top of the points standings, drew some consolation by Mercedes’ one-two finish after their tough weekend in Austria.

“At least it felt like the pace was good today and yesterday so there are positives to take,” he said. “Also, really, really happy for us as a team, getting maximum points and it’s pretty impressive the gap to the teams behind now.”

He also prevailed in a hard-fought battle with Hamilton in the opening laps of the race. “we had good racing at the beginning and I really enjoyed it,” he said.

“That’s why we are here, to race hard and fair. I’m sure Toto [Wolff, team principal] didn’t maybe enjoy it as much as we did but it doesn’t matter.”
........so Hamilton decided to go long for his first stop saving himself a pitstop. That would have likely produced the same result, so the safety car, whilst lucky, was still an irrelevance as Hamilton would have passed Bottas during his second pitstop.
The 'mistake' wasn't the tyre choice but the early stop I think. It did indeed cost Bottas the race. It seemed strangely early and my thought at the time was the lock-up in the second(?) lap must have damaged his tyre, perhaps causing vibrations that could harm the car. Otherwise, it seemed a tactical error.

If it was a tactical early stop then surely the choice would have been hards, and fingers crossed that they'd have lasted.

The quote makes it clear that Hamilton had it in the bag from Bottas' stop, so the SC did not rob us of an exciting battle. It was already over.


GB4 JEV FFS

876 posts

66 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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TheDeuce said:
Japanese? Sounds like Crofty to me biggrin
Finally, this makes sense! Crofty isn't mental, he's just a weeabo.

DonkeyApple

54,781 posts

168 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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Teddy Lop said:
Blink982 said:
No offence to any cricket fans but it really wound me up hearing people booing when they turned the cricket off on one of the big screens when Lewis was coming on stage. After all, thousands of us stayed back to see him and hear what he had to say after his record victory and battle with VB. It looked to me like his appearance was cut short by what is a meaningless game of rounders (to me, I'm not a fan of cricket and didn't even realise there was a world Cup on).

What exactly did Christian Horner say about Vettel and the next gp in Germany?
they kind of bungled how they handled it, like they did putting the world cup on the track screens using a split screen that left both too small to realistically watch during the f2 last year.

Sure, give your football fans etc a place to keep up but remember most of us are here for the motorsport.

Great race though and great its staying, being there and watching like f3 qually or FP on a friday with more fans in attendance than who turn up to see the race at certain tracks makes you wonder what liberty are playing around at, although having followed f1 for years I'm bored by now of hearing of the imminent demise of the British GP, I wonder if its just a marketing tool now.
It’s generally very silly having people pay to go and attend one sporting event and then displaying another at the venue.

Firstly, there will be people who don’t want to know the results of the other sporting event. Secondly, it normally detracts from the prime event by cutting screen time/space etc. And thirdly, and why it’s just a moronic residue of having to show football to scrotes who would get violent if they weren’t pandered to, we all have the technological ability to keep track of everything at anytime through our personal communication devices.

Traditionally you could tell cricket fans at another sporting event because they would have a little radio and a mono ear plug in.

Yes, England clinching the cricket World Cup is a huge thing but anyone can listen to it on a radio or watch it on their phone while at another event, so just why does one sporting venue suddenly in the last few years feel so obliged to potentially sacrifice their customers experience of the prime event in order to needlessly display another?

Personally, I think it has become too obtrusive and has been driven by this endless fear of upsetting the small number of fruit and veg punters who are desperate to rant and rave at anyone who dares not follow the code of bowing to their every whim.

I just think it needs to be dialled back a bit and the intelligence brought back.

Teddy Lop

8,262 posts

66 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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DonkeyApple said:
It’s generally very silly having people pay to go and attend one sporting event and then displaying another at the venue.

Firstly, there will be people who don’t want to know the results of the other sporting event. Secondly, it normally detracts from the prime event by cutting screen time/space etc. And thirdly, and why it’s just a moronic residue of having to show football to scrotes who would get violent if they weren’t pandered to, we all have the technological ability to keep track of everything at anytime through our personal communication devices.

Traditionally you could tell cricket fans at another sporting event because they would have a little radio and a mono ear plug in.

Yes, England clinching the cricket World Cup is a huge thing but anyone can listen to it on a radio or watch it on their phone while at another event, so just why does one sporting venue suddenly in the last few years feel so obliged to potentially sacrifice their customers experience of the prime event in order to needlessly display another?

Personally, I think it has become too obtrusive and has been driven by this endless fear of upsetting the small number of fruit and veg punters who are desperate to rant and rave at anyone who dares not follow the code of bowing to their every whim.

I just think it needs to be dialled back a bit and the intelligence brought back.
yes and no. I'm sure the world cup decision was driven by a fear many people might stay away/restrict their attendance, which is crap but given silverstones allways-on-the-edge in terms of profitability I can't blame them for worrying for margins.

I think the fear of people getting violent if they can't watch the footy is a little alarmist. I'm not sure those so inclined would have shown up, or from what I've seen of f1 crowds are the same bunch anyway.

This year they had a couple of "sports zones," essentially areas set up off track showing other sports, which drew a crowd and were for the most part easy enough to ignore.

RobGT81

5,227 posts

185 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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blueg33 said:
Lewis's career still seems to in ascendency as a driver, as a racer and as a team player. Vettel’s appears to be waning.
I think Lewis would have thrown in the towel a few years ago, if he hadn't won a Championship in that time. It's easy to not wane, when you are so far ahead of everyone else. All credit to Merc in the years leading up to 2014.

Jasandjules

69,787 posts

228 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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Deesee said:
Fastest pit stop ever at 1.90 seconds, well done red bull...

https://streamable.com/nuqdl
That is beyond impressive.

DonkeyApple

54,781 posts

168 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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RobGT81 said:
blueg33 said:
Lewis's career still seems to in ascendency as a driver, as a racer and as a team player. Vettel’s appears to be waning.
I think Lewis would have thrown in the towel a few years ago, if he hadn't won a Championship in that time. It's easy to not wane, when you are so far ahead of everyone else. All credit to Merc in the years leading up to 2014.
I enjoy watching Lewis work. It can make the races boring having such a lone winner but the pleasure is found in watching someone at the absolute top of their game. And your right that there was a time when it seemed to be falling apart a bit and he was clearly struggling to grow up and be his own man. The break from his father and his childhood McLaren team was in hindsight what was needed for him to feel a master of his own destiny as a man. In a sport where so many potential greats make the wrong team move at crucial times in their career and we lose sporting opportunities as viewers it is again a pleasure to see someone get their move so perfectly right.

The next big event in Lewis’s career will be when Mercedes begin to wane and he has to judge what move to make, if any. There are young guns coming up behind him who are good enough to beat him and will be cheaper to rent. I do expect another big wobble in his career down the line but at the moment it is just a total pleasure to watch an absolutely elite sportsman balance his life and work and repeatedly deliver a masterclass.

I also like Vetel. He seems a nice chap, very smart and an extremely fast driver but he has a weakness that for me Button first clearly highlighted in that amazing wet Canada race when he specifically aimed to scare Vetel off the track and succeeded in doing so. It was that event that really showed this weakness and one that every driver now seeks to employ when going head to head with him. It would be a shame to lose him from the grid but this season has seen his issue really come to the fore and he needs to invest in trying to limit it somehow.

This season, despite the dominance of Lewis we have some great racing going on behind the Mercedes which we haven’t necessarily had in other years and I was pleased that despite it being the British GO and Lewis our in front the cameras spent a lot of time where the action was.

The highlight of this year’s race was that my two girls actually watched it with me. The youngest gave us drivers to support, I was LEC, the eldest VET and she chose VER. We got very lucky that those three had a plenty of action which kept them excited and made it a memorable event for me.

blueg33

35,401 posts

223 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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RobGT81 said:
blueg33 said:
Lewis's career still seems to in ascendency as a driver, as a racer and as a team player. Vettel’s appears to be waning.
I think Lewis would have thrown in the towel a few years ago, if he hadn't won a Championship in that time. It's easy to not wane, when you are so far ahead of everyone else. All credit to Merc in the years leading up to 2014.
To some degree I agree with you, basically success breeds success. But IMO Lewis is driving with all the aggression of the younger drivers but combining it it with more maturity, lots of drivers fail to achieve that blend, and its the blend that helps you win. If the car is not competitive its harder to get that blend.

When I watch a race now, if Lewis is under pressure I expect him to deal with it, if Vettel is under pressure I expect him to make a mistake. Similarly if it was Alonzo or Kimi to deal with the pressure. In the years when Hamilton was under pressure from Button and his private life, he made more mistakes. Motor racing is an inner game as much as tennis or golf.





Jabbah

1,331 posts

153 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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Derek Smith said:
The 'mistake' wasn't the tyre choice but the early stop I think. It did indeed cost Bottas the race. It seemed strangely early and my thought at the time was the lock-up in the second(?) lap must have damaged his tyre, perhaps causing vibrations that could harm the car. Otherwise, it seemed a tactical error.

If it was a tactical early stop then surely the choice would have been hards, and fingers crossed that they'd have lasted.

The quote makes it clear that Hamilton had it in the bag from Bottas' stop, so the SC did not rob us of an exciting battle. It was already over.
I got the impression from something else Bottas said that they were convinced a two stop was needed and the reason for choosing to go medium again for the first stop was to prevent the over cut from Hamilton going longer. As it was, it seemed Hamilton had so much in hand that he would have had him at one stop or another even if both were on 2 stops and there was no safety car.

The Surveyor

7,575 posts

236 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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Derek Smith said:
The 'mistake' wasn't the tyre choice but the early stop I think. It did indeed cost Bottas the race. It seemed strangely early and my thought at the time was the lock-up in the second(?) lap must have damaged his tyre, perhaps causing vibrations that could harm the car. Otherwise, it seemed a tactical error.

If it was a tactical early stop then surely the choice would have been hards, and fingers crossed that they'd have lasted.

The quote makes it clear that Hamilton had it in the bag from Bottas' stop, so the SC did not rob us of an exciting battle. It was already over.
I don't think Bottas stopped too early, Max started on the same Medium tyre and had stopped a few laps before (lap 13) so part of the timing of the stop was to ensure Bottas didn't lose track position to Max as well as the drivers who started on the Soft tyre and who pitted around lap 12. Bottas had always set out to run a 2-stop strategy, and being the lead Merc he got the call to stop first which left Hamilton time to react and push the first stint out long enough to switch to a 2 stop. If anything the safety car came too early for Hamilton as he was radioing that the tyres were good and would have probably put a few more laps on them before switching to the hard tyre.

It's unfair to say Bottas made an error, for me he was just out-thought by the other side of the garage who calculated correctly that a 1 stop was faster given the low degradation from the new tarmac compared to last years stats.

paulguitar

22,950 posts

112 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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HustleRussell said:
DeltonaS said:
Sorry, but missed the part were the fight for the lead between the two Merc drivers got really exciting.
You didn’t watch the first quarter of the race then?

I know you only have eyes for your homeboy Max, but I think you should allow yourself to acknowledge that there are 19 other drivers out there too.
I am of the opinion that a big battle for the lead, whichever drivers are involved, is a huge plus for any race to have. I can see from the comments here that for some people, if this battle involves the Mercedes drivers, then it doesn't count.

I don't feel the same way.



Jasandjules

69,787 posts

228 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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DeltonaS said:
Sorry, but missed the part were the fight for the lead between the two Merc drivers got really exciting.
The first 4 laps...

Andy S15

399 posts

126 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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Great fight at the start between the Mercs. More of that please.

Regarding the Merc strategy - yes, Bottas got unlucky with the SC. However, Lewis had great pace at the point for an undercut and probably would have got got infront after his pitstop. Having watched quite a few of the Mercedes team behind the scenes strategy videos, it seems to be a common trend that when they have a driver in second place, they like to 'do whatever the leader doesn't do'. IE, Bottas as the lead driver got the preference on pit strategy and chose the safe option, assuming the 2 stop was going to be required for deg. At this point, Hamilton's crew will have decided to do the opposite - what would the point be in following Bottas in the next lap? He'd have still been in 2nd and the on track fight would have continued. Great for us as spectators, not so great for Merc.

However, had Bottas' crew decided to take the riskier option and do a longer 1 stop (I mean, it's unlikely given he was the leader, always take the less risky option), Hamilton's crew would have very likely chosen the alternate strategy and taken the 2 stop - in which case we would have been looking at a very different race.

ajprice

27,253 posts

195 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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With the standings as they are, if Hamilton and Bottas were split to separate teams, they would be 2nd and 4th in the constructors table.



Ferrari 243
Hamilton 223
Red Bull 191
Bottas 184
All other teams 179

TheDeuce

21,128 posts

65 months

Tuesday 16th July 2019
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ajprice said:
With the standings as they are, if Hamilton and Bottas were split to separate teams, they would be 2nd and 4th in the constructors table.



Ferrari 243
Hamilton 223
Red Bull 191
Bottas 184
All other teams 179
Nice way of visualising it that.

Interesting to see that by Summer break Hamilton could in theory hold a points lead over both Ferrari drivers combined. In terms of psychological advantage that's pretty brutal.