Official 2019 British Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

Official 2019 British Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

Author
Discussion

Graveworm

8,473 posts

70 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
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TheDeuce said:
True - although I'm sure it's all calculated as 'worth it' on some level. Admittedly it looks odd from an outside perspective, but then I'm sure many business choices I make would look like sheer madness to anyone that can't see the mechanics of those choices playing out behind the scenes.

Either way, this year they have clearly taken enough money to get through the event, even if they just break even. I think their complaining is more politics than reality.
It's a business it publishes figures. It sold out last year but lost 5 million and hasn't turned a profit in years. Yes it's their fault for signing the contract but it does not change the maths.

Deesee

8,327 posts

82 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
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Graveworm said:
TheDeuce said:
True - although I'm sure it's all calculated as 'worth it' on some level. Admittedly it looks odd from an outside perspective, but then I'm sure many business choices I make would look like sheer madness to anyone that can't see the mechanics of those choices playing out behind the scenes.

Either way, this year they have clearly taken enough money to get through the event, even if they just break even. I think their complaining is more politics than reality.
It's a business it publishes figures. It sold out last year but lost 5 million and hasn't turned a profit in years.
Point us to the direction of these published figures, the BDRC accounts are relatively balance sheet positive and profitable.

What happens when the boy cries wolf..

ChocolateFrog

24,762 posts

172 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
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Will be great to see Hamilton claim the outright Silverstone wins, fingers crossed.

Although someone said Clark won his 5 in 7 appearances, which is some effort.

Graveworm

8,473 posts

70 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
quotequote all
Deesee said:
Point us to the direction of these published figures, the BDRC accounts are relatively balance sheet positive and profitable.

What happens when the boy cries wolf..
In the accounts it is clear that the Grand Prix isn't profitable and only half the revenue comes from it. Their balance sheet is healthy ish because they have ticket sales in the bank but have not yet had to pay for a lot of the costs when they are published (as also explained in the accounts.
Whilst some CEO or financial officers have of course lied or mislead about figures its not as common as people think and it is illegal. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0025798...


Edited by Graveworm on Tuesday 9th July 19:06

TheDeuce

21,131 posts

65 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
quotequote all
Graveworm said:
In the accounts it is clear that the Grand Prix isn't profitable and only half the revenue comes from it. Their balance sheet is healthy ish because they have ticket sales in the bank but have not yet had to pay for a lot of the costs when they are published (as also explained in the accounts.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0025798...
Maybe I'm missing something but that just proves that times are hard overall for Silverstone - the true cost and revenue associated with the F1 GP isn't explicitly revealed is it?

Apologies if I am missing something, bit tired.

Graveworm

8,473 posts

70 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Maybe I'm missing something but that just proves that times are hard overall for Silverstone - the true cost and revenue associated with the F1 GP isn't explicitly revealed is it?

Apologies if I am missing something, bit tired.
They have made statements as to the figures. See Forbes etc.

TheDeuce

21,131 posts

65 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
quotequote all
Graveworm said:
They have made statements as to the figures.
We need to see those statements in order to debate this any further...

Willing to bet such statements are subtly obtuse in one way or another. The accounts show that a HUGE chunk of their revenue is F1 ticket sales (we can approximate the ticket sales revenue), there is no hiding that. They need to better monetise the facility in-between GP's.

thegreenhell

15,023 posts

218 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
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TheDeuce said:
We need to see those statements in order to debate this any further...
How about just leaving it at that, or at least moving that into one of the other discussions about that subject and leave this one for chat about cars and racing and stuff instead of fking boring accounting?

TheDeuce

21,131 posts

65 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
How about just leaving it at that, or at least moving that into one of the other discussions about that subject and leave this one for chat about cars and racing and stuff instead of fking boring accounting?
I'd normally agree - but the race is days away and Silverstone have themselves made a headline about this being 'the last GP' there, and why.

If we're contemplating getting excited about the British GP it's hard to ignore the suggestion (threat..) that it is to be the last one. I assume even you can't think of anything else to say about the racing side of things since you have instead chosen to post complaining about another topic that several of your fellow members clearly find interesting enough to discuss.

Graveworm

8,473 posts

70 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
We need to see those statements in order to debate this any further...

Willing to bet such statements are subtly obtuse in one way or another. The accounts show that a HUGE chunk of their revenue is F1 ticket sales (we can approximate the ticket sales revenue), there is no hiding that. They need to better monetise the facility in-between GP's.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2019/05/12/how-f1s-british-grand-prix-burned-through-20-million-of-cash/#6d5ca925688c

Swampy1982

3,305 posts

110 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
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Some how managed to blag my first Grand Prix tickets, VIP none the less.

My brother in law and I are leaving at 5am, aiming to be there 7ish, got some VIP parking but guess I'll sit in the queue like everyone else.

Then breakfast, lunch, and race, followed by dinner.

I can think of worse ways to spend a sunday. To say I'm excited is beyond understatement!

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
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Awesome! Enjoy.

TheDeuce

21,131 posts

65 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
quotequote all
Graveworm said:
TheDeuce said:
We need to see those statements in order to debate this any further...

Willing to bet such statements are subtly obtuse in one way or another. The accounts show that a HUGE chunk of their revenue is F1 ticket sales (we can approximate the ticket sales revenue), there is no hiding that. They need to better monetise the facility in-between GP's.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2019/05/12/how-f1s-british-grand-prix-burned-through-20-million-of-cash/#6d5ca925688c
My point proven. We can calculate their revenue from ticket sales as a result of hosting F1 this year, and as a result - we know that it's far, far more than they have paid to host it, assuming the figure in that article is vaguely correct.

The only direct quote of relevance in that article is that they are struggling and are losing money - but not due to F1 specifically. I estimate they have taken at least 35m in F1 ticket sales this year, probably closer to £50m. Their fee to Liberty is around £19m. How exactly is F1 the problem? They want more revenue from F1 because it's easier than going out to find new business to keep the track busier and more profitable overall.

Europa1

10,923 posts

187 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
How about just leaving it at that, or at least moving that into one of the other discussions about that subject and leave this one for chat about cars and racing and stuff instead of fking boring accounting?
Maybe because as things currently stand, the 2019 British Grand Prix, the subject of this thread, will be the last, due to the "fking boring accounting" you're grumbling about.

Graveworm

8,473 posts

70 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
My point proven. We can calculate their revenue from ticket sales as a result of hosting F1 this year, and as a result - we know that it's far, far more than they have paid to host it, assuming the figure in that article is vaguely correct.

The only direct quote of relevance in that article is that they are struggling and are losing money - but not due to F1 specifically. I estimate they have taken at least 35m in F1 ticket sales this year, probably closer to £50m. Their fee to Liberty is around £19m. How exactly is F1 the problem? They want more revenue from F1 because it's easier than going out to find new business to keep the track busier and more profitable overall.
Let's assume that's gross so they get 83 percent of that after Vat. Say less than 70 percent after commission and fees.
The cost of planning running, marketing, advertising, hosting, staffing, Road closures hospitality, logistics Admin also has to come out of that. According to https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2017/03/13/the-...
Without any track costs its 18.5 million.
Silverstone is the only GP without government help. Its not the only one making a loss.

Deesee

8,327 posts

82 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
quotequote all
Graveworm said:
Deesee said:
Point us to the direction of these published figures, the BDRC accounts are relatively balance sheet positive and profitable.

What happens when the boy cries wolf..
In the accounts it is clear that the Grand Prix isn't profitable and only half the revenue comes from it. Their balance sheet is healthy ish because they have ticket sales in the bank but have not yet had to pay for a lot of the costs when they are published (as also explained in the accounts.
Whilst some CEO or financial officers have of course lied or mislead about figures its not as common as people think and it is illegal. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0025798...


Edited by Graveworm on Tuesday 9th July 19:06
They are the BDRC figures. not Silverstone race weekend figures.

No lies/no misleading just accountancy.

The balance sheet will have a mass of hidden assets (land/buildings), there’s plenty of hidden value there.

After all London needs a new airport, right, a small spur from HS2 would sort that.

The GP is profitable and provides them massive amounts of cash, otherwise why in the accounts would the need to arrange a new facility from this September for 10mill +, if they don’t enter a new agreement.

Would not surprise me if they don’t renew the gp that it all ends up as housing/new airport as ‘we can’t make ends meet’.

Anyway, that’s me out, back to the racing this week..

TheDeuce

21,131 posts

65 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
quotequote all
Graveworm said:
TheDeuce said:
My point proven. We can calculate their revenue from ticket sales as a result of hosting F1 this year, and as a result - we know that it's far, far more than they have paid to host it, assuming the figure in that article is vaguely correct.

The only direct quote of relevance in that article is that they are struggling and are losing money - but not due to F1 specifically. I estimate they have taken at least 35m in F1 ticket sales this year, probably closer to £50m. Their fee to Liberty is around £19m. How exactly is F1 the problem? They want more revenue from F1 because it's easier than going out to find new business to keep the track busier and more profitable overall.
Let's assume that's gross so they get 83 percent of that after Vat. Say less than 70 percent after commission and fees.
The cost of planning running, marketing, advertising, hosting, staffing, Road closures hospitality, logistics Admin also has to come out of that. According to https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2017/03/13/the-...
Without any track costs its 18.5 million.
Silverstone is the only GP without government help. Its not the only one making a loss.
This years ticket sales should be around £50m x 0.7 (your 70%) = £35m. It's enough to host a 4 day event and pay Liberty the assumed £19m, more than enough.

The track costs issue is not clear cut. Yes, they have to maintain very high standards to host F1, but also they then have a very good track and should be able to attract more clubs and series to make use of it.

Look at their overall revenue from last year, I think it was £59m... If F1 ticket sales account for most of that, which they must do as we can all see the prices and that they keep selling out, then what exactly are they doing to make money for the rest of the year? F1 isn't going to pay for them to have a massive track maintained in tip top condition all year just for the F1 event. It's like a shop having just one customer, who happens to be incredibly rich and brings enough money to just about fund the shop for an entire year - if the shop wants to actually make a profit it needs to look beyond that one customer and grow the business.

Deesee

8,327 posts

82 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
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If I were Liberty, I’d buy 5 tracks and have 2 F1 events per year, then have 10 guest slots per year.

TheDeuce

21,131 posts

65 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
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janesmith1950 said:
Conversation for another day/thread I know, however I find it curious that there's both the FIA and an owner of the show to one side.

The whole show obviously generates a lot of money, however you have to ask what Liberty (or whoever owns it) brings to proceedings?
They manage and direct the spectacle that brings the £billions. Sounds easy but they paid billions for that position and have to fiercely protect, and intend to grow that asset.

To be fair, with the scale of the sport and the money these days, it will be a major job and responsibility to keep it all going in the right direction (financially).

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 9th July 2019
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
They manage and direct the spectacle that brings the £billions. Sounds easy but they paid billions for that position and have to fiercely protect, and intend to grow that asset.

To be fair, with the scale of the sport and the money these days, it will be a major job and responsibility to keep it all going in the right direction (financially).
Sorry, you quoted a post I started then deleted (not your fault). I was going to give context to the point but ran out of energy to infect the thread with it, so deleted.

My opinion is that the show has too many people leeching money out of it who aren't necessary for the thing to thrive.