History of the current F1 teams
Discussion
I was just thinking the other day about the history of the current F1 teams and all the changes over the years.
Came up with this little list (feel free to correct if wrong):
Ferrari (1950)
McLaren (1966)
Tyrell (1970) -> BAR (1999) -> Honda (2006) -> Brawn GP (2009) -> Mercedes Benz (2010)
Williams (1977)
Toleman (1981) -> Benetton (1986) -> Renault F1 (2002) -> Lotus Renault GP (2011) -> Lotus F1 (2012) -> Renault F1 (2016)
Minardi (1985) -> Toro Rosso (2006)
Jordan GP (1991) -> Midland F1 (2006) -> Spyker F1 (2007) -> Force India (2008) -> Racing Point (2019)
Sauber (1993) -> BMW Sauber (2006) -> Sauber (2010) -> Alfa Romeo (2019)
Stewart GP (1997) -> Jaguar (2000) -> Red Bull (2005)
Haas (2016)
Quite interesting to see that Haas joins Ferrari, McLaren and Williams as the only teams who haven't bought out another team and started from scratch.
Came up with this little list (feel free to correct if wrong):
Ferrari (1950)
McLaren (1966)
Tyrell (1970) -> BAR (1999) -> Honda (2006) -> Brawn GP (2009) -> Mercedes Benz (2010)
Williams (1977)
Toleman (1981) -> Benetton (1986) -> Renault F1 (2002) -> Lotus Renault GP (2011) -> Lotus F1 (2012) -> Renault F1 (2016)
Minardi (1985) -> Toro Rosso (2006)
Jordan GP (1991) -> Midland F1 (2006) -> Spyker F1 (2007) -> Force India (2008) -> Racing Point (2019)
Sauber (1993) -> BMW Sauber (2006) -> Sauber (2010) -> Alfa Romeo (2019)
Stewart GP (1997) -> Jaguar (2000) -> Red Bull (2005)
Haas (2016)
Quite interesting to see that Haas joins Ferrari, McLaren and Williams as the only teams who haven't bought out another team and started from scratch.
Ferrari dates further back than 1950. Originally, Enzo Ferrari set up Scuderia Ferrari to run and manage the pre war Alfa Romeo grand prix team.
After World War 2, Ferrari started building his own cars. The Ferrari logo can be seen on cars in the 1930s -
Here are some Ferrari F1 cars at the 1949 British Grand Prix -
Altrhough Ken Tyrell didn't produce his own F1 car until 1970, he was entering grand prix cars under the Team Tyrell name from 1968 usually using Matra cars. Jackie Stewart was World Champion in 1969 driving a Tyrell team Matra.
After World War 2, Ferrari started building his own cars. The Ferrari logo can be seen on cars in the 1930s -
Here are some Ferrari F1 cars at the 1949 British Grand Prix -
Altrhough Ken Tyrell didn't produce his own F1 car until 1970, he was entering grand prix cars under the Team Tyrell name from 1968 usually using Matra cars. Jackie Stewart was World Champion in 1969 driving a Tyrell team Matra.
Edited by Eric Mc on Thursday 15th August 12:04
cholo said:
Looks good, but Mclaren haven't always been just Mclaren.
They were partnered with Mercedes before they entered F1 with their own team and were known as Mclaren-Mercedes for a number of years.
Nope. They were founded my Bruce McLaren in 1963.They were partnered with Mercedes before they entered F1 with their own team and were known as Mclaren-Mercedes for a number of years.
Mercedes provided their engines from 1995 to 2014. The Mclaren - Mercedes name was a marketing thing.
Edited by StevieBee on Thursday 15th August 12:46
StevieBee said:
Nope. They were founded my Bruce McLaren in 1963.
Mercedes provided their engines from 1995 to 2014. The Mclaren - Mercedes name was a marketing thing.
Of course it was a marketing thing. Isn't the whole of F1 a marketing thing?Mercedes provided their engines from 1995 to 2014. The Mclaren - Mercedes name was a marketing thing.
Edited by StevieBee on Thursday 15th August 12:46
In fact, isn't the current Mercedes team just a marketing thing?? Other than the name and where the money comes from, what have they got to do with the road car division.
I just thought it was worth mentioning for accuracy as the OP listed BMW-Sauber as a seperate team also.
cholo said:
StevieBee said:
Nope. They were founded my Bruce McLaren in 1963.
Mercedes provided their engines from 1995 to 2014. The Mclaren - Mercedes name was a marketing thing.
Of course it was a marketing thing. Isn't the whole of F1 a marketing thing?Mercedes provided their engines from 1995 to 2014. The Mclaren - Mercedes name was a marketing thing.
Edited by StevieBee on Thursday 15th August 12:46
In fact, isn't the current Mercedes team just a marketing thing?? Other than the name and where the money comes from, what have they got to do with the road car division.
I just thought it was worth mentioning for accuracy as the OP listed BMW-Sauber as a seperate team also.
Unless I misread it, your post suggested that McLaren started life as McLaren - Mercedes which is not true. They were founded in 1963. The structure of ownership has changed over time as has their engine supplier but from the perspective of corporate provenance, they remain the same team that was founded in '63.
Whilst it is possible to trace the lineage of Mercedes to Tyrell, it's not entirely accurate. Tyrell (as in Tyrell Racing Ltd) was wound up. BAT acquired their premises, equipment and entry to F1. Craig Pollock sold the BAR team to Honda who then sold it to Ross Brawn who in turn sold it to Mercedes. So from a corporate perspective, the Mercedes F1 team's line starts at BAR rather than Tyrell.
cholo said:
Of course it was a marketing thing. Isn't the whole of F1 a marketing thing?
In fact, isn't the current Mercedes team just a marketing thing?? Other than the name and where the money comes from, what have they got to do with the road car division.
I just thought it was worth mentioning for accuracy as the OP listed BMW-Sauber as a separate team also.
I think the distinction is that Mercedes just supplied engines and sponsorship to McLaren whereas BMW did actually buy the Sauber team and run it as BMW-Sauber for a number for years before offloading.In fact, isn't the current Mercedes team just a marketing thing?? Other than the name and where the money comes from, what have they got to do with the road car division.
I just thought it was worth mentioning for accuracy as the OP listed BMW-Sauber as a separate team also.
Nice bit of research, anyone going to start adding the ones that are no longer racing or does that require a different thread name?
rev-erend said:
Hass did not start from scratch.
It's a Ferrari B team in disguise with may off the shelf parts.
Well, they did. Carl Hass invested (with others) in the formation of team. They formed a strategic partnership with Ferrari but are an entirely separate corporate entity that did not exist before they were formed. For scratch.It's a Ferrari B team in disguise with may off the shelf parts.
Mellow Yellow said:
cholo said:
Of course it was a marketing thing. Isn't the whole of F1 a marketing thing?
In fact, isn't the current Mercedes team just a marketing thing?? Other than the name and where the money comes from, what have they got to do with the road car division.
I just thought it was worth mentioning for accuracy as the OP listed BMW-Sauber as a separate team also.
I think the distinction is that Mercedes just supplied engines and sponsorship to McLaren whereas BMW did actually buy the Sauber team and run it as BMW-Sauber for a number for years before offloading.In fact, isn't the current Mercedes team just a marketing thing?? Other than the name and where the money comes from, what have they got to do with the road car division.
I just thought it was worth mentioning for accuracy as the OP listed BMW-Sauber as a separate team also.
Nice bit of research, anyone going to start adding the ones that are no longer racing or does that require a different thread name?
Vaud said:
StevieBee said:
Wasn't Minardi born from the ashes of Onyx or some other back of the grid team? Or am I thinking of Andrea Moda?
Coloni > Andrea ModaOnyx Grand Prix was it's own team (and with a very colourful owner at one point)
Minardi was it's own team
cholo said:
StevieBee said:
Nope. They were founded my Bruce McLaren in 1963.
Mercedes provided their engines from 1995 to 2014. The Mclaren - Mercedes name was a marketing thing.
Of course it was a marketing thing. Isn't the whole of F1 a marketing thing?Mercedes provided their engines from 1995 to 2014. The Mclaren - Mercedes name was a marketing thing.
Edited by StevieBee on Thursday 15th August 12:46
In fact, isn't the current Mercedes team just a marketing thing?? Other than the name and where the money comes from, what have they got to do with the road car division.
I just thought it was worth mentioning for accuracy as the OP listed BMW-Sauber as a seperate team also.
From 2000 until the end of 2011 Daimler AG owned 40% of McLaren's F1 team, and they were partly responsible for coughing up the money for the Mad Max $100M spygate fine. Subsequently a 30% stake in the team was eventually sold to Baharain's Mumtakalat.
The ownership/corporate histories of most F1 teams can be quite complicated and convoluted. Even in "simpler" times, trying to establish how a team was structured could be very complicated. Sometimes, these complications were deliberate as teams tried to skate around rules and regulations - and not all related to the sport. Tax and legal matters could be an incentive to set up separate but connected entities to run the cars. Colin Chapman's Lotus set up was particularly complex - and it changed over time.
StevieBee said:
Whilst it is possible to trace the lineage of Mercedes to Tyrell, it's not entirely accurate. Tyrell (as in Tyrell Racing Ltd) was wound up. BAT acquired their premises, equipment and entry to F1. Craig Pollock sold the BAR team to Honda who then sold it to Ross Brawn who in turn sold it to Mercedes. So from a corporate perspective, the Mercedes F1 team's line starts at BAR rather than Tyrell.
I've always thought that Ken Tyrrell sold the team and F1 entry to BAR in 1998.I understand that BAR used a different factory, equipment, etc but the ownership was bought from Mr Tyrrell himself.
Edit: Just found companies house page for them and it shows the name changes at the bottom - https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0078744...
The BAR-Tyrrell thing was purely a mechanism to get an entry into F1 without paying the $25m deposit required of new teams. FIA rules don't allow championship entries themselves to be bought and sold, so they had to buy the company that held the entry to get the entry. Other than that paper exercise, everything about the setup of BAR was 100% as a new team.
rev-erend said:
Hass did not start from scratch.
It's a Ferrari B team in disguise with may off the shelf parts.
Having took over Marussia's old factory. Marussia having been Virgin F1 before that (Wikipedia told me this, I'm not that much of a nerd). It's a Ferrari B team in disguise with may off the shelf parts.
New teams often form from old. Facilities and staff are taken over. Think its easier in some ways to change team name and take over an existing 'entry' rather than start from scratch.
Zarco said:
Having took over Marussia's old factory. Marussia having been Virgin F1 before that (Wikipedia told me this, I'm not that much of a nerd).
New teams often form from old. Facilities and staff are taken over. Think its easier in some ways to change team name and take over an existing 'entry' rather than start from scratch.
It's a slight tangent, but if you're looking at continuity through location rather than ownership, then the Leafield Technical Centre has hosted TWR-Jaguar (Group C), Arrows F1, Super Aguri F1, Lotus Racing and Caterham F1.New teams often form from old. Facilities and staff are taken over. Think its easier in some ways to change team name and take over an existing 'entry' rather than start from scratch.
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