Official Belgium GP thread 2019
Discussion
kiseca said:
I'm just saying that simply expecting the drivers to be more careful there is never going to happen.
But this is exactly what experience brings, knowing where to push and knowing where to be cautious. Very rarely is the race won on the first corner, especially against a slower car.
ChevronB19 said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
ChevronB19 said:
If you’re on the Rotterdam to Hull boat I’m on it as well!
We are/were!
If you ever wondered what Max and Lando do in their off time, they are racing each other on iRacing right now: https://www.twitch.tv/landonorris
regarding the F2 crash, i noticed precisely where the t-bone happened that 15 years ago it was all gravel trap...
If that tarmac run-off area was still gravel trap now, would it have had a different outcome - ie Hubert's car not bouncing as far back onto the track and the other car being slowed sufficiently enough or taking a different trajectory? In the pursuit of going forwards with safety, have the FIA actually gone backwards?
If that tarmac run-off area was still gravel trap now, would it have had a different outcome - ie Hubert's car not bouncing as far back onto the track and the other car being slowed sufficiently enough or taking a different trajectory? In the pursuit of going forwards with safety, have the FIA actually gone backwards?
Gary C said:
eccles said:
What a strange view you have.
Verstappen is an experienced F1 driver now, he's been there enough times he knows what goes on at your average first corner and this one is tighter than most. It's all about not putting yourself in that position in the first place, and all the cars in front of him will be closing the door as they're going round the corner, so it's a bit of a no brainer not to go up the inside.
He's got no one to blame but himself.
In this case, I think your right. Verstappen is an experienced F1 driver now, he's been there enough times he knows what goes on at your average first corner and this one is tighter than most. It's all about not putting yourself in that position in the first place, and all the cars in front of him will be closing the door as they're going round the corner, so it's a bit of a no brainer not to go up the inside.
He's got no one to blame but himself.
His instinct told him to stick it up the inside, and thats what makes him exciting, but it was a mistake.
eccles said:
kiseca said:
I'm just saying that simply expecting the drivers to be more careful there is never going to happen.
But this is exactly what experience brings, knowing where to push and knowing where to be cautious. Very rarely is the race won on the first corner, especially against a slower car.Max's experience has been that he's gone for that gap dozens of times in different corners and it's earned him a place or at least not ended his race. This time, he simply couldn't turn any tighter and it put him out of the race. In most other cases, when the door was closing, he had somewhere to go. A bit more room to move into, to give him some more braking time. Here it was bounce off Kimi, or hit a wall.
But yes, he has speed already, once experience has taught him enough ways to avoid shunting himself out of contention, he's going to be the standout driver of his generation, I think.
kiseca said:
eccles said:
kiseca said:
I'm just saying that simply expecting the drivers to be more careful there is never going to happen.
But this is exactly what experience brings, knowing where to push and knowing where to be cautious. Very rarely is the race won on the first corner, especially against a slower car.Max's experience has been that he's gone for that gap dozens of times in different corners and it's earned him a place or at least not ended his race. This time, he simply couldn't turn any tighter and it put him out of the race. In most other cases, when the door was closing, he had somewhere to go. A bit more room to move into, to give him some more braking time. Here it was bounce off Kimi, or hit a wall.
But yes, he has speed already, once experience has taught him enough ways to avoid shunting himself out of contention, he's going to be the standout driver of his generation, I think.
HighwayStar said:
kiseca said:
eccles said:
kiseca said:
I'm just saying that simply expecting the drivers to be more careful there is never going to happen.
But this is exactly what experience brings, knowing where to push and knowing where to be cautious. Very rarely is the race won on the first corner, especially against a slower car.Max's experience has been that he's gone for that gap dozens of times in different corners and it's earned him a place or at least not ended his race. This time, he simply couldn't turn any tighter and it put him out of the race. In most other cases, when the door was closing, he had somewhere to go. A bit more room to move into, to give him some more braking time. Here it was bounce off Kimi, or hit a wall.
But yes, he has speed already, once experience has taught him enough ways to avoid shunting himself out of contention, he's going to be the standout driver of his generation, I think.
kiseca said:
HighwayStar said:
kiseca said:
eccles said:
kiseca said:
I'm just saying that simply expecting the drivers to be more careful there is never going to happen.
But this is exactly what experience brings, knowing where to push and knowing where to be cautious. Very rarely is the race won on the first corner, especially against a slower car.Max's experience has been that he's gone for that gap dozens of times in different corners and it's earned him a place or at least not ended his race. This time, he simply couldn't turn any tighter and it put him out of the race. In most other cases, when the door was closing, he had somewhere to go. A bit more room to move into, to give him some more braking time. Here it was bounce off Kimi, or hit a wall.
But yes, he has speed already, once experience has taught him enough ways to avoid shunting himself out of contention, he's going to be the standout driver of his generation, I think.
Deesee said:
Edited by HighwayStar on Wednesday 4th September 11:42
130R said:
If you ever wondered what Max and Lando do in their off time, they are racing each other on iRacing right now: https://www.twitch.tv/landonorris
I saw a few minutes of that, Max got disqualified for hitting another car 
HighwayStar said:
kiseca said:
HighwayStar said:
kiseca said:
eccles said:
kiseca said:
I'm just saying that simply expecting the drivers to be more careful there is never going to happen.
But this is exactly what experience brings, knowing where to push and knowing where to be cautious. Very rarely is the race won on the first corner, especially against a slower car.Max's experience has been that he's gone for that gap dozens of times in different corners and it's earned him a place or at least not ended his race. This time, he simply couldn't turn any tighter and it put him out of the race. In most other cases, when the door was closing, he had somewhere to go. A bit more room to move into, to give him some more braking time. Here it was bounce off Kimi, or hit a wall.
But yes, he has speed already, once experience has taught him enough ways to avoid shunting himself out of contention, he's going to be the standout driver of his generation, I think.
Deesee said:
Edited by HighwayStar on Wednesday 4th September 11:42
Deesee said:
HighwayStar said:
kiseca said:
HighwayStar said:
kiseca said:
eccles said:
kiseca said:
I'm just saying that simply expecting the drivers to be more careful there is never going to happen.
But this is exactly what experience brings, knowing where to push and knowing where to be cautious. Very rarely is the race won on the first corner, especially against a slower car.Max's experience has been that he's gone for that gap dozens of times in different corners and it's earned him a place or at least not ended his race. This time, he simply couldn't turn any tighter and it put him out of the race. In most other cases, when the door was closing, he had somewhere to go. A bit more room to move into, to give him some more braking time. Here it was bounce off Kimi, or hit a wall.
But yes, he has speed already, once experience has taught him enough ways to avoid shunting himself out of contention, he's going to be the standout driver of his generation, I think.
Deesee said:
Edited by HighwayStar on Wednesday 4th September 11:42
kiseca said:
Deesee said:
HighwayStar said:
kiseca said:
HighwayStar said:
kiseca said:
eccles said:
kiseca said:
I'm just saying that simply expecting the drivers to be more careful there is never going to happen.
But this is exactly what experience brings, knowing where to push and knowing where to be cautious. Very rarely is the race won on the first corner, especially against a slower car.Max's experience has been that he's gone for that gap dozens of times in different corners and it's earned him a place or at least not ended his race. This time, he simply couldn't turn any tighter and it put him out of the race. In most other cases, when the door was closing, he had somewhere to go. A bit more room to move into, to give him some more braking time. Here it was bounce off Kimi, or hit a wall.
But yes, he has speed already, once experience has taught him enough ways to avoid shunting himself out of contention, he's going to be the standout driver of his generation, I think.
Deesee said:
Edited by HighwayStar on Wednesday 4th September 11:42
HighwayStar said:
With that corner, it's actually at the corner there isn't anywhere that appears to be out the way when it's starts going wrong. If they are already through and clear it's fine. Tt's cars follow the drivers caught up in the crash. They can get tagged anywhere across the track. Cars bouncing off cars in all directions. I wonder what Max did in the years between the 2 incidents to make the corner. I'm at work so can look into that at the moment.
Similar starting position p5/p7 gave loads of space, and did not dive in on the curb... Deesee said:
HighwayStar said:
With that corner, it's actually at the corner there isn't anywhere that appears to be out the way when it's starts going wrong. If they are already through and clear it's fine. Tt's cars follow the drivers caught up in the crash. They can get tagged anywhere across the track. Cars bouncing off cars in all directions. I wonder what Max did in the years between the 2 incidents to make the corner. I'm at work so can look into that at the moment.
Similar starting position p5/p7 gave loads of space, and did not dive in on the curb... HighwayStar said:
With that corner, it's actually at the corner there isn't anywhere that appears to be out the way when it's starts going wrong. If they are already through and clear it's fine. Tt's cars follow the drivers caught up in the crash. They can get tagged anywhere across the track. Cars bouncing off cars in all directions. I wonder what Max did in the years between the 2 incidents to make the corner. I'm at work so can look into that at the moment.
that was kind of my original point. That corner, specifically, when things start going wrong they go wrong faster than the driver can react, or keep awareness. And contact often ends up taking out more than just the two cars immediately involved.That corner and Verstappen are the perfect storm, it seems. But twice in 4 years is... well that's just being stubborn. Or stupid. Or delusional.
Monza first corner has been known to have incidents too, drivers get caught under braking, but at least there's a bit of room on both the outside and the inside if the driver can get the car there. Once you realise you're about to stack it, there is space to do something other than just try brake harder.
JonChalk said:
It’s either going to be more of a problem, or less of a problem for Vertappen in Italy, as he’ll be starting at the back due to engine changes penalties.
Less pressure at first corner.
Or
More targets to aim at.
Which do we think?
It might add to the excitement of the day. He'll need to make his way through the field and will anticipate a 5th place. It might not be easy. Could be fun if the lead is settled. Less pressure at first corner.
Or
More targets to aim at.
Which do we think?
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