Official Italian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Discussion
Blib said:
TheDeuce said:
Blib said:
I wonder whether the reason why Hamilton was so magnanimous after the race about LeClerc's tactics was because he did not wish to upset the Tifosi before his move to Ferrari?
You're mad, of course. But at least you sought some form of logic in your delusions 
LeClerc and Hamilton together could bring the championship to Ferrari......?
Do we expect Ferrari to beat Mercedes next year!? Nope... More likely to be beaten by Red Bull at this rate. I think Hamilton might conclude the same and is therefore probably best to stay put
Blib said:
TheDeuce said:
Blib said:
I wonder whether the reason why Hamilton was so magnanimous after the race about LeClerc's tactics was because he did not wish to upset the Tifosi before his move to Ferrari?
You're mad, of course. But at least you sought some form of logic in your delusions LeClerc and Hamilton together could bring the championship to Ferrari......?
That's before all of the corporate BS that he would have to do at Ferrari.
He's also had a tie with Mercedes since the junior formula.
CustardOnChips said:
Blib said:
TheDeuce said:
Blib said:
I wonder whether the reason why Hamilton was so magnanimous after the race about LeClerc's tactics was because he did not wish to upset the Tifosi before his move to Ferrari?
You're mad, of course. But at least you sought some form of logic in your delusions LeClerc and Hamilton together could bring the championship to Ferrari......?
To go to a team that consistently find a way to throw races and championships away?
swisstoni said:
Leclerc has jumped ahead of Verstappen as the top young-gun now IMHO. He combined speed, assertiveness and unflappability on Sunday.
Max has the first 2 but I’m not sure about the 3rd.
Also an interesting shift in the approach to stewarding.
If as Leclerc, and since Sunday now Hamilton, has found it now seems to be fairly open season on moving about to defend.
If that receives only a poxy flag on first offence, this may open the floodgates to a little more indiscipline in the ranks.
I don’t see this as a bad thing necessarily but it may detract from Verstappen’s USP.
There was a time when Hamilton only had to scratch his nose in the McLaren and he’d be landed with some penalty or other.
If the handcuffs are now off, we may see some interesting stuff.
Let’s hope it’s safe.
I'm a trifle undecided about CLC. He's defeated the 5 x WDC, and that's a singular feat. Impressive or what? Fair enough, he might well have exposed weaknesses in his team mate, but others haven't before him. You'd think that's be enough in comparison with Verstappen. However, he's in a car that at some circuits is the class of the field. He led at Bahrain, and comfortably, before his engine expired and Vettel, bless him, spun out unaided. He's now won two races, but at circuits that favour the car. Max has the first 2 but I’m not sure about the 3rd.
Also an interesting shift in the approach to stewarding.
If as Leclerc, and since Sunday now Hamilton, has found it now seems to be fairly open season on moving about to defend.
If that receives only a poxy flag on first offence, this may open the floodgates to a little more indiscipline in the ranks.
I don’t see this as a bad thing necessarily but it may detract from Verstappen’s USP.
There was a time when Hamilton only had to scratch his nose in the McLaren and he’d be landed with some penalty or other.
If the handcuffs are now off, we may see some interesting stuff.
Let’s hope it’s safe.
Verstappen, however, has the slowest car in the top 3. He has won two races, and shown out at a number of others, being on the podium 3 more times, and virtually has 4th at least sewn up. He was rather headstrong at Spa, but he's improved no end. He's third in the table, in front of CLC and, of course, Vettel. In fact, he's a threat to Bottas, despite the latter winning at Monza.
Who is better? Difficult to say. If Vettel does leave at the end of the season, it is possible we might find out. Now that's be fun.
E34-3.2 said:
More importantly Hamilton doesn't fit Ferrari politics. I think that it was Luca di montezemolo who made it very clear. The level of hatred towards Hamilton by the tifosi is second to none...
To be fair, it's only second to none as he is the guy that most frequently beats them. I suppose if he did become insane and decided to move across, that wouldn't be such an issue.Although he would then be stuck driving a twitchy, low grip car that ruins it's tyres and doesn't suit most circuits for a team that randomly destroy their drivers chances in endless humorous ways. So the Tifosi would no doubt then blame him for not trying hard enough
Blib said:
I wonder whether the reason why Hamilton was so magnanimous after the race about LeClerc's tactics was because he did not wish to upset the Tifosi before his move to Ferrari?
Lewis has been waiting for a decent bit of competition for some time now and has mentioned a few times that he was particularly looking forward to having a battle with LeClerc. My guess is that the racer in him was pretty pleased with Sunday as a day at the office in terms of an enjoyable race.ukaskew said:
Blib said:
I wonder whether the reason why Hamilton was so magnanimous after the race about LeClerc's tactics was because he did not wish to upset the Tifosi before his move to Ferrari?
Lewis has been waiting for a decent bit of competition for some time now and has mentioned a few times that he was particularly looking forward to having a battle with LeClerc. My guess is that the racer in him was pretty pleased with Sunday as a day at the office in terms of an enjoyable race.Also the likes of Max and CLC are fairly safe competition for him to enjoy tussling with. Neither of them have the car this season to be a serious threat for the title, he really may as well enjoy the battles when they occur and no reason he shouldn't wish for them to be a little more frequent. In reality, on most circuits it's far more likely to be Ferrari v Red Bull anyway - and so long as they're also battling each other, neither of them represent a sustained threat to Mercedes. Not across the course of a season.
ukaskew said:
Lewis has been waiting for a decent bit of competition for some time now and has mentioned a few times that he was particularly looking forward to having a battle with LeClerc. My guess is that the racer in him was pretty pleased with Sunday as a day at the office in terms of an enjoyable race.
I suspect he's also happy that even on the circuits which clearly suited the Ferrari design ethos, he's been within striking distance of them. It makes it very hard to see any other team seriously challenging Mercedes over the course of the latter half of the season which basically means (barring something very odd happening) he only has to beat Bottas to collect the WDC. ukaskew said:
Blib said:
I wonder whether the reason why Hamilton was so magnanimous after the race about LeClerc's tactics was because he did not wish to upset the Tifosi before his move to Ferrari?
Lewis has been waiting for a decent bit of competition for some time now and has mentioned a few times that he was particularly looking forward to having a battle with LeClerc. My guess is that the racer in him was pretty pleased with Sunday as a day at the office in terms of an enjoyable race.
hing. He questioned the stewards decisions in relation to consistency but took nothing away from CLC. Lewis said he will drive according to the new dawn of racing etiquette. Change, adapt and overcome. Other drives will be doing the same.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens to the first driver defending harder than previously allowed and his challenger ends up in the barriers or worse. It’s going to be interesting.
HighwayStar said:
Lewis said he will drive according to the new dawn of racing etiquette. Change, adapt and overcome. Other drives will be doing the same.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens to the first driver defending harder than previously allowed and his challenger ends up in the barriers or worse. It’s going to be interesting.
I'm not usually a fan of the Palmer columns on the BBC Sport website but he got this spot on in my opinion. It does seem as though the 'lesser' drivers in the midfield get harsher penalties, and it does also seem like it's going to take a big accident where a driver pushes another off track to get this 'new' lighter touch policy reviewed again. Had Lewis not taken evasive action off the track it's inconceivable that LeClerc would have got away without any penalty whatsoever.It’ll be interesting to see what happens to the first driver defending harder than previously allowed and his challenger ends up in the barriers or worse. It’s going to be interesting.
Having different driver stewards at every race leads to inconsistency in what should be some fairly black and white rules ('leave a cars width under braking')
Personally I founf Leclercs antics understandable in the context of Monza but nonetheless disappointing.
Being able to squeeze drivers off the track and moving under braking spoils the racing IMHO : they are cheap shots that require no skill and deprive us a of a chance to see real skill in action in terms of late braking and car positioning. All we will be left with is DRS assisted overtakes which are bloody boring.
Being able to squeeze drivers off the track and moving under braking spoils the racing IMHO : they are cheap shots that require no skill and deprive us a of a chance to see real skill in action in terms of late braking and car positioning. All we will be left with is DRS assisted overtakes which are bloody boring.
Edited by mattb46 on Monday 9th September 20:53
swisstoni said:
If that receives only a poxy flag on first offence, this may open the floodgates to a little more indiscipline in the ranks.
I don’t see this as a bad thing necessarily but it may detract from Verstappen’s USP.
There was a time when Hamilton only had to scratch his nose in the McLaren and he’d be landed with some penalty or other.
If the handcuffs are now off, we may see some interesting stuff.
I agree, can we please have the handcuffs off now. Did any of you see Ayrton run Prost off the road, it was like a party trick. He's lean real hard, Prost would back off and off and end up on the grass saying 'he drove me off the road'. Then Senna tried the same thing with Mansell (in Barcelona in 91, there's a clip on youtube) and ended up doing 200 at the end of the straight about an inch apart, because Nigel wasn't giving an inch of road. I don’t see this as a bad thing necessarily but it may detract from Verstappen’s USP.
There was a time when Hamilton only had to scratch his nose in the McLaren and he’d be landed with some penalty or other.
If the handcuffs are now off, we may see some interesting stuff.
I want that stuff to be allowed. Send James Hunt out there now he'd be black flagged every race.
otherman said:
Then Senna tried the same thing with Mansell (in Barcelona in 91, there's a clip on youtube) and ended up doing 200 at the end of the straight about an inch apart, because Nigel wasn't giving an inch of road.
Senna did not try to run Mansell off the road at all. They simply went alongside each other on the straight and Mansell was able to brake a bit later in the Williams.BBC JP on the ‘antics’
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/49629863
One of the two best pundits (English Media) in the paddock IMO
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/49629863
One of the two best pundits (English Media) in the paddock IMO
E34-3.2 said:
More importantly Hamilton doesn't fit Ferrari politics. I think that it was Luca di montezemolo who made it very clear. The level of hatred towards Hamilton by the tifosi is second to none...
If Lewis became a Ferrari driver, the Tifosi would worship him which would be funny, if a little pathetic, to watch.Good racing, great race, but LC got away with a few marginal moves because he is the young unknown quantity. Max did the same, at first, some incredible moves, the difference? Max’s antics were indulged and encouraged by his team, so he kept doing it and started to increasingly become unstuck. It took him a long time to learn the lesson (although the last two races he has reverted to type) The more experienced drivers will have taken this drive of LC on board and in future races if he tries it again, they will have his measure and he will come unstuck or he will will learn very fast (which I think he will because he is the real deal) and play by the standards most of the others adhere to. To utterly mentally dominate other drivers to moving over the way Senna and Schumacher did is less likely these days I feel, and even they came unstuck as some of the examples given above demonstrate.
paulguitar said:
If Lewis became a Ferrari driver, the Tifosi would worship him which would be funny, if a little pathetic, to watch.
I'm not sure.There is a lot of inherent racism in Italy. I was at the race in general admission seats (i.e. lots of locals) in 2009 when Lewis crashed on the last lap challenging the Brawns.
The locals were very derogatory towards him; although my Italian is limited I think it had something to do with his heritage rather than his driving skills.
Deesee said:
BBC JP on the ‘antics’
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/49629863
One of the two best pundits (English Media) in the paddock IMO
I agree with Palmer, which no doubt makes him feel better. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/49629863
One of the two best pundits (English Media) in the paddock IMO
The drivers moaned about being allowed to race, and moan also about consistency. At least they won't moan when there's a serious accident caused by a driver not leaving enough room. Or maybe they will.
It was a bad move by CLC, one that should have been properly punished.
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