Official Italian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

Official Italian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

Author
Discussion

ukaskew

5,204 posts

166 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
C70R said:
Nah. Italian sports fans are a lovely, misunderstood bunch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_associatio...
Yup, the recent stuff with Lukaku is mind boggling.

M4CK 1

367 posts

72 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
Deesee said:
BBC JP on the ‘antics’

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/49629863

One of the two best pundits (English Media) in the paddock IMO
I agree with Palmer, which no doubt makes him feel better.

The drivers moaned about being allowed to race, and moan also about consistency. At least they won't moan when there's a serious accident caused by a driver not leaving enough room. Or maybe they will.

It was a bad move by CLC, one that should have been properly punished.
I'd like to echo this comment.
What would've happened if Lewis not taken to the escape road.
What would've happened if Lewis underbraking on the grass verge, had gone sideways.
What what would've happened if they had clipped wheels if Hamilton had refused to move over.
OBLITERATION.
Both Hamilton and Charles would've had a major crash.

Weaving under braking and leaving your opponent enough space on track was made a rule for a good reason!!!!
Is this what the fans want??
Yes we want hard racing but it's more enjoyable when it's fair!!!!!

Hungrymc

4,081 posts

82 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
M4CK 1 said:
Weaving under braking and leaving your opponent enough space on track was made a rule for a good reason!!!!
Is this what the fans want??
Yes we want hard racing but it's more enjoyable when it's fair!!!!!
I think fans (some fans) want this flexibility when it helps to level the playing field and create a popular result. Most fans know the call for "let them race" after Seb's rejoin / squeeze on Lewis (Was it Canada?) was more about the entertainment spectacle than the any encouragement of good clean hard racing (because it wasn't clean).

Positioning in overtaking is highly nuanced. We will soon enough hear from people who see no difference between changing line to close a car off track on the out side while it was along side in a breaking zone, with taking the inside line on turn in before a passing car has gotten along side. It is hard to define simple rules that suit every possible scenario but moving under braking and allowing a cars width is one that generally everyone gets and isn't contentious. Corner exits are going to get really messy now (they were already less clear than corner entry / braking).

I think adding the need for contact to make it a proper penalty is a ridiculous decision.

That's said, I enjoyed LEC's win, he flirted with and stepped over the line, but he got away with it and has probably established a new precedent for moving in the braking zone. Championship contenders will avoid contact, everyone else who feels wronged will be making sure there is a touch.... In open wheeled cars, that's a ridiculous thing to encourage.

Double gauche

270 posts

42 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
M4CK 1 said:
Derek Smith said:
Deesee said:
BBC JP on the ‘antics’

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/49629863

One of the two best pundits (English Media) in the paddock IMO
I agree with Palmer, which no doubt makes him feel better.

The drivers moaned about being allowed to race, and moan also about consistency. At least they won't moan when there's a serious accident caused by a driver not leaving enough room. Or maybe they will.

It was a bad move by CLC, one that should have been properly punished.
I'd like to echo this comment.
What would've happened if Lewis not taken to the escape road.
What would've happened if Lewis underbraking on the grass verge, had gone sideways.
What what would've happened if they had clipped wheels if Hamilton had refused to move over.
OBLITERATION.
Both Hamilton and Charles would've had a major crash.

Weaving under braking and leaving your opponent enough space on track was made a rule for a good reason!!!!
Is this what the fans want??
Yes we want hard racing but it's more enjoyable when it's fair!!!!!
what was lewis doing there though?
no chance of an overtake around the outside
he wasnt fully alongside
only bad things can happen
why is it different from the albon sainz incident ?

DIW35

3,965 posts

145 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
If he could have stayed on the outside through the first part of the chicane, he would have been on the inside for the second part. Simple geometry.

iandc

2,464 posts

151 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
Double gauche said:
what was lewis doing there though?
no chance of an overtake around the outside
he wasnt fully alongside
only bad things can happen
why is it different from the albon sainz incident ?
Ah so Lewis's fault then!! That clarifies why no penalty for CLC. Maybe it's because he comes from Monaco.
Interesting reaction from Lewis. Not a great deal of moaning and seems to relish going head to head in future races. I imagine Max and Seb would have same reaction!!!! Well not Seb 'cause he wouldn't be that close!!!

Andy S15

379 posts

72 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
C70R said:
Nah. Italian sports fans are a lovely, misunderstood bunch.
Looters Stripping Fisichella's Benneton

I'm sure they just wanted a group cuddle...




Edited by Andy S15 on Tuesday 10th September 14:46

HighwayStar

2,503 posts

89 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
Double gauche said:
M4CK 1 said:
Derek Smith said:
Deesee said:
BBC JP on the ‘antics’

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/49629863

One of the two best pundits (English Media) in the paddock IMO
I agree with Palmer, which no doubt makes him feel better.

The drivers moaned about being allowed to race, and moan also about consistency. At least they won't moan when there's a serious accident caused by a driver not leaving enough room. Or maybe they will.

It was a bad move by CLC, one that should have been properly punished.
I'd like to echo this comment.
What would've happened if Lewis not taken to the escape road.
What would've happened if Lewis underbraking on the grass verge, had gone sideways.
What what would've happened if they had clipped wheels if Hamilton had refused to move over.
OBLITERATION.
Both Hamilton and Charles would've had a major crash.

Weaving under braking and leaving your opponent enough space on track was made a rule for a good reason!!!!
Is this what the fans want??
Yes we want hard racing but it's more enjoyable when it's fair!!!!!
what was lewis doing there though?
no chance of an overtake around the outside
he wasnt fully alongside
only bad things can happen
why is it different from the albon sainz incident ?

He was there applying pressure. Letting Leclerc know he’s there. Giving him something to think about. That’s why he was there. Only bad things can happen if you’re not given the room which was there and then taken away but... that’s not a problem now, you can squeeze a drive a bit, even a little contact. If bad things happen the penalties come out. The new rules of engagement. All the drivers will have seen this and approaching racing differently going forward.

Deesee

2,756 posts

28 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all

coetzeeh

1,809 posts

181 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
I can't wait for the next race - the Red Bulls will be very competitive and giving the Mercs a hard time.

Pretty sure Max was watching all of this and saying "game on, that is my territory".

Parts guys better start making spare panels already.

kambites

57,335 posts

166 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
Hmm, I certainly think Redbull will be ahead of Ferrari at Marina Bay; hopefully they can keep Mercedes honest but I'm not holding my breath.

Europa1

8,821 posts

133 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
kambites said:
Hmm, I certainly think Redbull will be ahead of Ferrari at Marina Bay; hopefully they can keep Mercedes honest but I'm not holding my breath.
It'll be fascinating to watch, as my perception has been that Singapore is not traditionally a "Mercedes" track, and that Hamilton's pole lap last year was pretty much up there with Senna's mythical lap at Monaco (admittedly the 360 camera on Hamilton's car added to the other-worldliness!).

HustleRussell

16,791 posts

105 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
Europa1 said:
kambites said:
Hmm, I certainly think Redbull will be ahead of Ferrari at Marina Bay; hopefully they can keep Mercedes honest but I'm not holding my breath.
It'll be fascinating to watch, as my perception has been that Singapore is not traditionally a "Mercedes" track, and that Hamilton's pole lap last year was pretty much up there with Senna's mythical lap at Monaco (admittedly the 360 camera on Hamilton's car added to the other-worldliness!).
Hamilton’s lap was incredible but Verstappen was hamstrung by a drivability issue with his Renault power unit IIRC, I think Red Bull will be very much in contention for the front row of the grid.

kambites

57,335 posts

166 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
I was under the impression that Mercedes had ironed out their weakness in low speed corners this year and are now at last the equals of Redbull in that regard?

Mr_Thyroid

1,741 posts

172 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
Double gauche said:
what was lewis doing there though?
no chance of an overtake around the outside
he wasnt fully alongside
only bad things can happen
why is it different from the albon sainz incident ?
Positioning your car on the outside forces the inside driver narrow, compromising their line through the corner and making a pass on the exit or the next corner possible. It's totally legitimate to put your car on the outside on the entry because the inside driver is supposed to be obliged to hold their line.

As Palmer implies, penalties do not kill racing, drivers forcing each other off track kills racing.

heebeegeetee

26,747 posts

193 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
Double gauche said:
what was lewis doing there though?
no chance of an overtake around the outside
he wasnt fully alongside
only bad things can happen
He was doing the same as he did to Seb on lap 1 last year, and a good thing happened from his perspective. It's callrd putting pressure on, and it quite often works.

Charles cracked twice under pressure imo. It was a great race and everything, and I think both drivers were fantastic, but that result wouldn't have stood at any other circuit.

REALIST123

11,799 posts

98 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
heebeegeetee said:
Double gauche said:
what was lewis doing there though?
no chance of an overtake around the outside
he wasnt fully alongside
only bad things can happen
He was doing the same as he did to Seb on lap 1 last year, and a good thing happened from his perspective. It's callrd putting pressure on, and it quite often works.

Charles cracked twice under pressure imo. It was a great race and everything, and I think both drivers were fantastic, but that result wouldn't have stood at any other circuit.
That result wouldn’t have happened in the first place at any other circuit. The Mercedes is clearly still the best car out there.

Having watched it again it was the right decision. Leclerc was on the limit with the gap he left but it wasn’t that bad, unless we are all ready to accept that real racing has ended.

Derek Smith

33,987 posts

193 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
That result wouldn’t have happened in the first place at any other circuit. The Mercedes is clearly still the best car out there.

Having watched it again it was the right decision. Leclerc was on the limit with the gap he left but it wasn’t that bad, unless we are all ready to accept that real racing has ended.
The Merc clearly wasn't the best car at Monza.

As for 'that bad', I think forcing a driver onto the grass when in the breaking area for a corner is pretty bad. CLC should be grateful for LH's expertise in handling the car and in rapid decision-making. Had he chosen to do the same with many other drivers - let's not name names - it would have ended badly.

Hamilton is good at pressuring drivers in front on him where he is unable to pass through lack of performance. As someone else said, CLC made two errors, of which the forcing off LH was one. Both were down to LH.




Deesee

2,756 posts

28 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
Looking back there’s quite a bit of credit that Seb did not get for driving the perfect lap (by giving CLC the tow).

Bottas was just short pole (and lifted on parabolica due to Kimi going off).

Also Seb (& Lewis) did not get the chance for a return tow in the q3 second run.

That 2nd part of Q 3 played a huge part in how the race played out.

Seb drove a great race in Spa to get the win for his team, a great Quali to get CLC the pole..

I can’t see him playing as nicely in the coming races..

HardtopManual

1,233 posts

111 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
Let me start by saying that my favourite team is Ferrari and my favourite driver is Any Brit.

I didn't like Charles' moves on Lewis at the Della Roggia chicane. For me, it sours the victory - only slightly, but all the same, it wasn't 100% clean racing. If Charles hadn't put Lewis on the grass by moving in the braking zone, Lewis would have been on the inside for the right-hander and for the two Lesmos, and would almost certainly have taken the lead. So, all those people saying that the new rule interpretation is great for the spectacle, it actually robbed them of an overtake for the lead at the weekend. Albeit an overtake that would have been generally unpopular, given the venue and recent Merc/Lewis domination of the sport.

Note that this is me railing against the new rule interpretation, not the drivers. Charles knew he'd be able to get away with one or two marginal moves against Lewis, just as he knew that Lewis would rather stay behind him than crash. In a Ferrari, at Monza, Charles did the logical thing.