Official Italian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Discussion
C70R said:
Nah. Italian sports fans are a lovely, misunderstood bunch.
Looters Stripping Fisichella's BennetonI'm sure they just wanted a group cuddle...
Edited by Andy S15 on Tuesday 10th September 14:46
Double gauche said:
M4CK 1 said:
Derek Smith said:
Deesee said:
BBC JP on the ‘antics’
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/49629863
One of the two best pundits (English Media) in the paddock IMO
I agree with Palmer, which no doubt makes him feel better. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/49629863
One of the two best pundits (English Media) in the paddock IMO
The drivers moaned about being allowed to race, and moan also about consistency. At least they won't moan when there's a serious accident caused by a driver not leaving enough room. Or maybe they will.
It was a bad move by CLC, one that should have been properly punished.
What would've happened if Lewis not taken to the escape road.
What would've happened if Lewis underbraking on the grass verge, had gone sideways.
What what would've happened if they had clipped wheels if Hamilton had refused to move over.
OBLITERATION.
Both Hamilton and Charles would've had a major crash.
Weaving under braking and leaving your opponent enough space on track was made a rule for a good reason!!!!
Is this what the fans want??
Yes we want hard racing but it's more enjoyable when it's fair!!!!!
no chance of an overtake around the outside
he wasnt fully alongside
only bad things can happen
why is it different from the albon sainz incident ?
He was there applying pressure. Letting Leclerc know he’s there. Giving him something to think about. That’s why he was there. Only bad things can happen if you’re not given the room which was there and then taken away but... that’s not a problem now, you can squeeze a drive a bit, even a little contact. If bad things happen the penalties come out. The new rules of engagement. All the drivers will have seen this and approaching racing differently going forward.
kambites said:
Hmm, I certainly think Redbull will be ahead of Ferrari at Marina Bay; hopefully they can keep Mercedes honest but I'm not holding my breath.
It'll be fascinating to watch, as my perception has been that Singapore is not traditionally a "Mercedes" track, and that Hamilton's pole lap last year was pretty much up there with Senna's mythical lap at Monaco (admittedly the 360 camera on Hamilton's car added to the other-worldliness!).Europa1 said:
kambites said:
Hmm, I certainly think Redbull will be ahead of Ferrari at Marina Bay; hopefully they can keep Mercedes honest but I'm not holding my breath.
It'll be fascinating to watch, as my perception has been that Singapore is not traditionally a "Mercedes" track, and that Hamilton's pole lap last year was pretty much up there with Senna's mythical lap at Monaco (admittedly the 360 camera on Hamilton's car added to the other-worldliness!).Double gauche said:
what was lewis doing there though?
no chance of an overtake around the outside
he wasnt fully alongside
only bad things can happen
why is it different from the albon sainz incident ?
Positioning your car on the outside forces the inside driver narrow, compromising their line through the corner and making a pass on the exit or the next corner possible. It's totally legitimate to put your car on the outside on the entry because the inside driver is supposed to be obliged to hold their line. no chance of an overtake around the outside
he wasnt fully alongside
only bad things can happen
why is it different from the albon sainz incident ?
As Palmer implies, penalties do not kill racing, drivers forcing each other off track kills racing.
Double gauche said:
what was lewis doing there though?
no chance of an overtake around the outside
he wasnt fully alongside
only bad things can happen
He was doing the same as he did to Seb on lap 1 last year, and a good thing happened from his perspective. It's callrd putting pressure on, and it quite often works. no chance of an overtake around the outside
he wasnt fully alongside
only bad things can happen
Charles cracked twice under pressure imo. It was a great race and everything, and I think both drivers were fantastic, but that result wouldn't have stood at any other circuit.
heebeegeetee said:
Double gauche said:
what was lewis doing there though?
no chance of an overtake around the outside
he wasnt fully alongside
only bad things can happen
He was doing the same as he did to Seb on lap 1 last year, and a good thing happened from his perspective. It's callrd putting pressure on, and it quite often works. no chance of an overtake around the outside
he wasnt fully alongside
only bad things can happen
Charles cracked twice under pressure imo. It was a great race and everything, and I think both drivers were fantastic, but that result wouldn't have stood at any other circuit.
Having watched it again it was the right decision. Leclerc was on the limit with the gap he left but it wasn’t that bad, unless we are all ready to accept that real racing has ended.
REALIST123 said:
That result wouldn’t have happened in the first place at any other circuit. The Mercedes is clearly still the best car out there.
Having watched it again it was the right decision. Leclerc was on the limit with the gap he left but it wasn’t that bad, unless we are all ready to accept that real racing has ended.
The Merc clearly wasn't the best car at Monza.Having watched it again it was the right decision. Leclerc was on the limit with the gap he left but it wasn’t that bad, unless we are all ready to accept that real racing has ended.
As for 'that bad', I think forcing a driver onto the grass when in the breaking area for a corner is pretty bad. CLC should be grateful for LH's expertise in handling the car and in rapid decision-making. Had he chosen to do the same with many other drivers - let's not name names - it would have ended badly.
Hamilton is good at pressuring drivers in front on him where he is unable to pass through lack of performance. As someone else said, CLC made two errors, of which the forcing off LH was one. Both were down to LH.
Looking back there’s quite a bit of credit that Seb did not get for driving the perfect lap (by giving CLC the tow).
Bottas was just short pole (and lifted on parabolica due to Kimi going off).
Also Seb (& Lewis) did not get the chance for a return tow in the q3 second run.
That 2nd part of Q 3 played a huge part in how the race played out.
Seb drove a great race in Spa to get the win for his team, a great Quali to get CLC the pole..
I can’t see him playing as nicely in the coming races..
Bottas was just short pole (and lifted on parabolica due to Kimi going off).
Also Seb (& Lewis) did not get the chance for a return tow in the q3 second run.
That 2nd part of Q 3 played a huge part in how the race played out.
Seb drove a great race in Spa to get the win for his team, a great Quali to get CLC the pole..
I can’t see him playing as nicely in the coming races..
Let me start by saying that my favourite team is Ferrari and my favourite driver is Any Brit.
I didn't like Charles' moves on Lewis at the Della Roggia chicane. For me, it sours the victory - only slightly, but all the same, it wasn't 100% clean racing. If Charles hadn't put Lewis on the grass by moving in the braking zone, Lewis would have been on the inside for the right-hander and for the two Lesmos, and would almost certainly have taken the lead. So, all those people saying that the new rule interpretation is great for the spectacle, it actually robbed them of an overtake for the lead at the weekend. Albeit an overtake that would have been generally unpopular, given the venue and recent Merc/Lewis domination of the sport.
Note that this is me railing against the new rule interpretation, not the drivers. Charles knew he'd be able to get away with one or two marginal moves against Lewis, just as he knew that Lewis would rather stay behind him than crash. In a Ferrari, at Monza, Charles did the logical thing.
I didn't like Charles' moves on Lewis at the Della Roggia chicane. For me, it sours the victory - only slightly, but all the same, it wasn't 100% clean racing. If Charles hadn't put Lewis on the grass by moving in the braking zone, Lewis would have been on the inside for the right-hander and for the two Lesmos, and would almost certainly have taken the lead. So, all those people saying that the new rule interpretation is great for the spectacle, it actually robbed them of an overtake for the lead at the weekend. Albeit an overtake that would have been generally unpopular, given the venue and recent Merc/Lewis domination of the sport.
Note that this is me railing against the new rule interpretation, not the drivers. Charles knew he'd be able to get away with one or two marginal moves against Lewis, just as he knew that Lewis would rather stay behind him than crash. In a Ferrari, at Monza, Charles did the logical thing.
heebeegeetee said:
He was doing the same as he did to Seb on lap 1 last year, and a good thing happened from his perspective. It's callrd putting pressure on, and it quite often works.
Charles cracked twice under pressure imo. It was a great race and everything, and I think both drivers were fantastic, but that result wouldn't have stood at any other circuit.
Chances are the result wouldn't have stood before the summer break, since then rules have been tweaked and the drivers were all happy with the decision made. The only reason any of them will bh now is because they're racing drivers and aren't getting their own way of they're on the wrong side of things. Charles cracked twice under pressure imo. It was a great race and everything, and I think both drivers were fantastic, but that result wouldn't have stood at any other circuit.
Get hlwhat results would've stood before the summer break now out of your head, it's not going to be the same and the racing will be all the better for it. Fan want to see battles like Villenueve vs Arnoux, well with this rule tweak they've got the potential to have it, just because the result doesn't go the way you want it to doesn't mean that the rule has to be changed yet again to suit the desired result.... That sounds quite familiar actually
M4CK 1 said:
Derek Smith said:
Deesee said:
BBC JP on the ‘antics’
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/49629863
One of the two best pundits (English Media) in the paddock IMO
I agree with Palmer, which no doubt makes him feel better. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/49629863
One of the two best pundits (English Media) in the paddock IMO
The drivers moaned about being allowed to race, and moan also about consistency. At least they won't moan when there's a serious accident caused by a driver not leaving enough room. Or maybe they will.
It was a bad move by CLC, one that should have been properly punished.
What would've happened if Lewis not taken to the escape road.
What would've happened if Lewis underbraking on the grass verge, had gone sideways.
What what would've happened if they had clipped wheels if Hamilton had refused to move over.
OBLITERATION.
Both Hamilton and Charles would've had a major crash.
Weaving under braking and leaving your opponent enough space on track was made a rule for a good reason!!!!
Is this what the fans want??
Yes we want hard racing but it's more enjoyable when it's fair!!!!!
I also agree that this is going to go on until there is a serious accident. The speeds at Monza are frightening, but there is space off the track. But if similar logic is applied in Singapore, then the consequences will inevitably be more severe.
REALIST123 said:
That result wouldn’t have happened in the first place at any other circuit. The Mercedes is clearly still the best car out there.
Having watched it again it was the right decision. Leclerc was on the limit with the gap he left but it wasn’t that bad, unless we are all ready to accept that real racing has ended.
I'd be interested to hear your definition of "real racing" in an open cockpit, open wheel formula with 1500bhp/ton. At the weekend, Lewis was mere inches from being launched into the air at a piece of track that is about as close to spectators as it's possible to get in F1. Having watched it again it was the right decision. Leclerc was on the limit with the gap he left but it wasn’t that bad, unless we are all ready to accept that real racing has ended.
rdjohn said:
M4CK 1 said:
Derek Smith said:
Deesee said:
BBC JP on the ‘antics’
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/49629863
One of the two best pundits (English Media) in the paddock IMO
I agree with Palmer, which no doubt makes him feel better. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/49629863
One of the two best pundits (English Media) in the paddock IMO
The drivers moaned about being allowed to race, and moan also about consistency. At least they won't moan when there's a serious accident caused by a driver not leaving enough room. Or maybe they will.
It was a bad move by CLC, one that should have been properly punished.
What would've happened if Lewis not taken to the escape road.
What would've happened if Lewis underbraking on the grass verge, had gone sideways.
What what would've happened if they had clipped wheels if Hamilton had refused to move over.
OBLITERATION.
Both Hamilton and Charles would've had a major crash.
Weaving under braking and leaving your opponent enough space on track was made a rule for a good reason!!!!
Is this what the fans want??
Yes we want hard racing but it's more enjoyable when it's fair!!!!!
I also agree that this is going to go on until there is a serious accident. The speeds at Monza are frightening, but there is space off the track. But if similar logic is applied in Singapore, then the consequences will inevitably be more severe.
They may reduce this down to 3/4/5 per year Max, In place of or with the penalty points.
One thing is now for sure moving under breaking is allowed...as such...
DanielSan said:
Chances are the result wouldn't have stood before the summer break, since then rules have been tweaked and the drivers were all happy with the decision made. The only reason any of them will bh now is because they're racing drivers and aren't getting their own way of they're on the wrong side of things.
Get hlwhat results would've stood before the summer break now out of your head, it's not going to be the same and the racing will be all the better for it. Fan want to see battles like Villenueve vs Arnoux, well with this rule tweak they've got the potential to have it, just because the result doesn't go the way you want it to doesn't mean that the rule has to be changed yet again to suit the desired result.... That sounds quite familiar actually
You're conflating hard racing (which the drivers want) and illegal moves (which no one voted for) though? Get hlwhat results would've stood before the summer break now out of your head, it's not going to be the same and the racing will be all the better for it. Fan want to see battles like Villenueve vs Arnoux, well with this rule tweak they've got the potential to have it, just because the result doesn't go the way you want it to doesn't mean that the rule has to be changed yet again to suit the desired result.... That sounds quite familiar actually
Charles made other defensive moves that were very hard and totally fair. There was some brilliant driving.
Moving under braking and putting the other car off track was illegal and does nothing to aid hard racing. In-fact, if you can put the chasing car off track, at the very least you've nullified the racing for some time while the clean tyres and re-engage.
And as for contact determining the penalty when this is in the hands of the other driver.... LOL... no one is that stupid to believe this is a good thing?
This is a ridiculous and ill conceived approach.
Deesee said:
One thing is now for sure moving under breaking is allowed...as such...
using football analogy i'm guessing the FIA are classing moving under braking as a 'foul' ...moving under braking & causing another driver off track as a 'yellow card' ...& moving under braking & causing another driver off track AND collision as a 'red card'personally i'd class 'moving under braking & causing another driver off track as pretty fking dangerous & worthy of a straight red imo
& if we're going down the football card system, i'd also say that 'gaining a lasting advantage' is a 'red' i.e you're gonna get some form of penalty, so 'not losing an advantage' is worthy of a 'yellow' because i can think of a fair few corners & a fair few occasions where (pretty much all) drivers have locked up under braking have gone straight on to stay ahead of another car
so all in all ...the ref bottled it in front of the home crowd
Edited by angrymoby on Wednesday 11th September 14:33
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