If Japanese GP cancelled; Hamilton takes title?

If Japanese GP cancelled; Hamilton takes title?

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Discussion

MitchT

12,655 posts

155 months

Tuesday 8th October
quotequote all
Helicopter has to be able to fly or the race doesn't happen. That's a rule, good roads or otherwise. I seem to recall sometime in the last decade that a race was seriously delayed because the helicopter couldn't fly in the conditions at the start time.

ETA:
2017 Chinese GP FP1 disrupted and FP2 cancelled due to poor visibility preventing helicopter from flying.

Edited by MitchT on Tuesday 8th October 22:49

TheDeuce

3,135 posts

12 months

Tuesday 8th October
quotequote all
Teddy Lop said:
Suzukas a decent sized city no? I believe if road ambulance can make a hospital with the required grade of trauma care in a certain time the race can proceed with or without the helicopter
I had a quick check actually, the general hospital is less than 3 miles away. 12 minute drive. I saw a chap being lifted in to an air ambulance in Cornwall earlier this year (not too hideous, just broken leg from coming off a ladder) and the loading in procedure took about 5 minutes and then at least another 5 minutes for it to take off, and I assume some more faff at the other end. For a short trip of a few miles, I can imagine a road ambulance with it's sirens blaring is potentially faster overall.

Additional, I did a little research: https://emj.bmj.com/content/21/3/355

Particularly this bit:

"Transfer times

It is necessary to establish the total transport time when air and road transport options are considered. It often takes at least 20 minutes to transfer a patient from scene to helicopter landing site, package, secure, lift, fly, unload, and transfer the patient from helipad to emergency department by air ambulance in metropolitan areas.6 There is consensus that helicopters have a role in transporting critically injured patients over distances greater than 50 kilometres or 30 minutes by road in rural areas in Australia.40,41 Helicopter transport time may be significantly longer than 20 minutes if there is a need for secondary land ambulance transfer from the hospital’s helipad to the emergency department.42 In our experience secondary land ambulance transfer from helipad to the ED may add up to 15 minutes to the total helicopter transport time. The necessity for land ambulance transfer from helipad to hospital may double transport times by air,6 and this may have important consequences for patients who cannot receive advanced airway management until arrival in the ED resuscitation room. Helicopter transport with secondary land ambulance transfer from the helipad is unlikely to be faster than direct transport from the scene by road unless the road transport time is estimated to be >45 minutes, and this is reflected in the algorithm."

So there you have it. I'm sure they will have the helicopter at the track, but any driver unlucky enough to need it might be better getting in the back of a normal ambulance instead.

Big Nanas

281 posts

30 months

Wednesday 9th October
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I remember this issue being covered before by (I think) Brundle at (I think) Suzuka (yes I know!)

They mentioned that although the hospital is so close, traffic is bad so they still rely on the helicopter transfer. Im sure they'll cover this all again on the pre-show.

thegreenhell

6,192 posts

165 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
It's not compulsory for a helicopter to be available for the race to go ahead. FIA Appendix H, para 2.8.3.8 outlines the necessary provisions for medical evacuation. In general, a helicopter is the preferred means of medivac, but in cases where this is impossible then the race can go ahead if a suitably-equipped road ambulance with police escort is available, and by such means can reach the pre-approved hospital within 20 minutes.

DaveTheRave87

1,369 posts

35 months

Wednesday 9th October
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I think they'll be extra cautious here, with Jules Bianchi's accident happening in similar conditions.

I'll reckon that there'll be no racing taking place if the helicopter can't fly.

TheDeuce

3,135 posts

12 months

Wednesday 9th October
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DaveTheRave87 said:
I think they'll be extra cautious here, with Jules Bianchi's accident happening in similar conditions.

I'll reckon that there'll be no racing taking place if the helicopter can't fly.
Based on google traffic right now, and last night - it really would be quicker to not use the helicopter. Still useful as a backup I guess just city traffic is unusually hectic for some reason, or a route closed unexpectedly. I'm sure you're right and they will do whatever they calculate is safest, I'm just not convinced that the chopper is what they would choose for transport if they had the option.

I also think that due to various incidents here over the years, some Typhoon related - as was Bianchi's to a degree, they will be super cautious of the weather and wind speeds. They've already put out the media announcements that show they're minded to take no risks..

Big Nanas

281 posts

30 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
It's not compulsory for a helicopter to be available for the race to go ahead. FIA Appendix H, para 2.8.3.8 outlines the necessary provisions for medical evacuation. In general, a helicopter is the preferred means of medivac, but in cases where this is impossible then the race can go ahead if a suitably-equipped road ambulance with police escort is available, and by such means can reach the pre-approved hospital within 20 minutes.
Ah yes, thats a good point. They mentioned that although the hospital is close, the traffic means they couldn't guarantee getting there within the 20 minute window.
Thanks for adding that.

Graham

16,312 posts

230 months

Thursday 10th October
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I would have thought the bigger problem in a typhoon would be spectator safety. with the race more likely to be cancelled for that. lots of people out in the open without enough cover and in metal grandstands.

in 2018 for the Formula E there was a point where the place had to be evacuated as there was an electrical storm looking like it would hit brooklyn.

All spectators were evacuated as they all could not be put under cover. took them about another 30 mins to think it might be a good idea to get anyone working under cover mind...

in the end it was just a heavy rain shower.. and everyone let back in

G

TheDeuce

3,135 posts

12 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
Graham said:
I would have thought the bigger problem in a typhoon would be spectator safety. with the race more likely to be cancelled for that. lots of people out in the open without enough cover and in metal grandstands.

in 2018 for the Formula E there was a point where the place had to be evacuated as there was an electrical storm looking like it would hit brooklyn.

All spectators were evacuated as they all could not be put under cover. took them about another 30 mins to think it might be a good idea to get anyone working under cover mind...

in the end it was just a heavy rain shower.. and everyone let back in

G
Depends on the wind speed and final direction the storm takes as it approaches landfall I guess. Even if it's as close as 100 miles away from Suzuka with a wind speed of 100mph, other than a lot of blustery rain the conditions at the circuit could be totally bearable and safe. Or... it could be closer/stronger and everyone would have to be told to give up and go home.

complete headfk for the organisers right now no doubt.

Petrus1983

2,554 posts

108 months

Thursday 10th October
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I think they’d have been cautious no matter what, but I feel two things will make them uber cautious - a) Jules Bianchi, b) the fact the WDC & WCC is pretty much a given. Fingers crossed though as I like watching the Japanese GP.

thegreenhell

6,192 posts

165 months

Thursday 10th October
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Graham said:
I would have thought the bigger problem in a typhoon would be spectator safety. with the race more likely to be cancelled for that. lots of people out in the open without enough cover and in metal grandstands.

G
I think the cars will become undriveable before it's actually unsafe for people to be out in the open. They don't work well in standing water or in strong winds, so a combination of both would see them kept safely in the garages.

TheDeuce

3,135 posts

12 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
I think the cars will become undriveable before it's actually unsafe for people to be out in the open. They don't work well in standing water or in strong winds, so a combination of both would see them kept safely in the garages.
I agree. A mildly unpredictable crosswind can cause upsets - low level random powerful gusts around the track would be pretty risky. No one wants their down force cancelled out when they're pushing 2g in a corner.