The Official Japanese GP 2019 **Spoilers**
Discussion
HustleRussell said:
My main problem with ‘let them race’ is that when modern F1 cars make any kind of contact, nine times out of ten there is damage to delicate and vulnerable bodywork components which then ruins that driver’s entire race. This could easily be addressed by the regs changes but it doesn’t look like it will.
Some barely visible winglets get crunched and the car's lost 25% of its downforce.
Evangelion said:
Take the stupid wings off completely and there'd be no weight to worry about. Plus we could get back to real downforce, ie the force of gravity. It was good enough for Moss and Fangio.
Personally I am all for returning to a bias of mechanical grip vs aero, through it would be hard to outlaw all aero effects.The challenge is that you would have to neuter every lower formula as well.
I wonder what a modern Maserati 250F would look like once increased safety was taken into account.
budgie smuggler said:
Don't forget the plastic bag which cost Magnussen 4 seconds a lap in Singapore...vaud said:
Personally I am all for returning to a bias of mechanical grip vs aero, through it would be hard to outlaw all aero effects.
The challenge is that you would have to neuter every lower formula as well.
I wonder what a modern Maserati 250F would look like once increased safety was taken into account.
Nothing like a Maserati 250FThe challenge is that you would have to neuter every lower formula as well.
I wonder what a modern Maserati 250F would look like once increased safety was taken into account.
janesmith1950 said:
Hungrymc said:
...should have been a flag if the officials wanted him in, that’s what they’re there for.
Exactly. No backroom bullst on the radio or emails- use the flags, that's what they're for!!The end-plates on the front wings come off all the time and it's really not uncommon for a car to be seen with a small section of bodywork hanging off after an incident. Teams only bringing in the car if the performance is impeded rather for safety reason. I think Ferrari and CLC were fairly punished for the accident, but the punishment for driving with a small bit of bodywork hanging off feels very harsh IMHO
vaud said:
I wonder what a modern Maserati 250F would look like once increased safety was taken into account.
There was a modern version of a 250f style 1950s car manufactured in the 90s I think to be a one make classic race series. I remember seeing it in Autosport magazine being driven around Donington. I can't remember what they were called to find a photo of one but I think it had a big rollover hoop, much bigger than the ones added on the originals that race at Goodwood.Edited to add, it was Formula Classic - https://online.handh.co.uk/m/lot-details/index/cat...
Edited by FourWheelDrift on Tuesday 15th October 14:27
Daston said:
I have been watching a few indycar races this year and despite a fair bit of contact their wings seem to hold up better. Is this just due to the lack of smaller fiddly parts? Could a simple 1 or 2 part wing cut down on the amout of shards?
It's more down to the fact that it's a spec chassis so Dallara can beef up those parts without worrying about the weight penalty.There were plenty of bits falling off when IndyCar had multiple aerokit manufacturers.
jsf said:
vaud said:
... I wonder what a modern Maserati 250F would look like once increased safety was taken into account.
Nothing like a Maserati 250FPS - don't forget the cloth helmets, alcohol fuel and hay bales.
Evangelion said:
Take the stupid wings off completely and there'd be no weight to worry about. Plus we could get back to real downforce, ie the force of gravity. It was good enough for Moss and Fangio.
Problem is it'd be slower than loads of other car championships (and bikes too) so they'd have to change the name from F1 as well to F (some other higher number).Dunc.
Evangelion said:
jsf said:
vaud said:
... I wonder what a modern Maserati 250F would look like once increased safety was taken into account.
Nothing like a Maserati 250FPS - don't forget the cloth helmets, alcohol fuel and hay bales.
The Surveyor said:
janesmith1950 said:
Hungrymc said:
...should have been a flag if the officials wanted him in, that’s what they’re there for.
Exactly. No backroom bullst on the radio or emails- use the flags, that's what they're for!!The end-plates on the front wings come off all the time and it's really not uncommon for a car to be seen with a small section of bodywork hanging off after an incident. Teams only bringing in the car if the performance is impeded rather for safety reason. I think Ferrari and CLC were fairly punished for the accident, but the punishment for driving with a small bit of bodywork hanging off feels very harsh IMHO
He was lucky I think.
It’s not really much of a punishment. He got of lightly.
Exige77 said:
The Surveyor said:
janesmith1950 said:
Hungrymc said:
...should have been a flag if the officials wanted him in, that’s what they’re there for.
Exactly. No backroom bullst on the radio or emails- use the flags, that's what they're for!!The end-plates on the front wings come off all the time and it's really not uncommon for a car to be seen with a small section of bodywork hanging off after an incident. Teams only bringing in the car if the performance is impeded rather for safety reason. I think Ferrari and CLC were fairly punished for the accident, but the punishment for driving with a small bit of bodywork hanging off feels very harsh IMHO
He was lucky I think.
It’s not really much of a punishment. He got of lightly.
I'm really enjoying the resurgence of McLaren this year so was very annoyed that the bits off CLC's car blocked Lando's brake ducts forcing him to pit early, and I'm also not down-playing the risk to Lewis Hamilton, yet given other drivers have shed bodywork without punishment at all I don't see how it can be said he got off lightly. He got a 10 second penalty when most driver who have a coming together only to later see a small bit of bodywork come away get no punishment at all.
The Surveyor said:
Exige77 said:
The Surveyor said:
janesmith1950 said:
Hungrymc said:
...should have been a flag if the officials wanted him in, that’s what they’re there for.
Exactly. No backroom bullst on the radio or emails- use the flags, that's what they're for!!The end-plates on the front wings come off all the time and it's really not uncommon for a car to be seen with a small section of bodywork hanging off after an incident. Teams only bringing in the car if the performance is impeded rather for safety reason. I think Ferrari and CLC were fairly punished for the accident, but the punishment for driving with a small bit of bodywork hanging off feels very harsh IMHO
He was lucky I think.
It’s not really much of a punishment. He got of lightly.
I'm really enjoying the resurgence of McLaren this year so was very annoyed that the bits off CLC's car blocked Lando's brake ducts forcing him to pit early, and I'm also not down-playing the risk to Lewis Hamilton, yet given other drivers have shed bodywork without punishment at all I don't see how it can be said he got off lightly. He got a 10 second penalty when most driver who have a coming together only to later see a small bit of bodywork come away get no punishment at all.
That’s where I think he got of lightly.
Max didn’t get any points and other people’s races were interfered with.
Evangelion said:
Perhaps a more suitable punishment would have been to give his points to Max, like in snooker when you give points away - your opponent gets them.
At least the punishment would fit the crime. However if it was a regular sanction, then teams would just retire the car to save engine life.
Evangelion said:
Perhaps a more suitable punishment would have been to give his points to Max, like in snooker when you give points away - your opponent gets them.
Interesting idea but no idea how it would work. If points at end of race the "guilty" driver would just retire but cannot work out points at time of incident. So I think a non-starter.The Surveyor said:
He was certainly due a penalty for hitting Max, no question about that.
he was 100% fault for hitting Max, but a penalty i'm not so sure (& the stewards weren't sure either) drivers don't really (they have a rough idea) know how much grip they have on the 1st lap until they get to the first corner ...& it's not like Max didn't have any room- he had half a trackLeclerc was certainly due a penalty for his ignoring of a race control instruction- he should have been warned, then black flagged- pretty simple, instead they let him race so as to not 'ruin' the spectacle & afaiaa hit him with biggest time penalty they could (10s) ...the extra 5s seemed to be tacked on (how many first lap incidents have been left to be dealt till after the race?)
I'm not sure when this 'don't ruin spectacle attitude crept in, but it's a fine line when it takes precedence over a: the rule book & b: safety
F1 isn't & shouldn't be WWE imho
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