Lewis Hamilton Vs Michael Schumacher - Who Is Better?

[NewUsername]

angrymoby said:

A44RON said:

The textbook example of clutching at straws is trying to argue a 43-year-old F1 driver is the same as in their prime years and then describing his Mercedes years as rubbish - they're basically saying Rosberg is better than Michael overall, which anyone who has a clue about F1 knows is total b0ll0cks.

He was 41 ...& unlike Mansell, he re-wrote the rule book on F1 driver physical fitness

& i'm sure you're well aware Kimi is 40 this year & seems to be doing ok still

I think at the time in 1992 you'd struggle to find a fitter driver on the grid than Nigel, he prepared himself exceptionally. maybe in a different way as you had to have strength for the active cars in 92 but he was supremely fit, and a 3rd Dan Black Belt to boot

[angrymoby]

ash73 said:

Ron Dennis - "We're racing Alonso".

was that before or after he tried to blackmail McL?

[angrymoby]

NewUsername said:

I think at the time in 1992 you'd struggle to find a fitter driver on the grid than Nigel, he prepared himself exceptionally. maybe in a different way as you had to have strength for the active cars in 92 but he was supremely fit, and a 3rd Dan Black Belt to boot

Senna had an Olympic performance specialist as his personal trainer ...think he might have pipped our big boned Nige (& Schumacher would've undoubtedly been even fitter when at 40)

sure Nige was muscular, but not sure being a 3rd Dan (in what?) equates to showing a particular level of fitness/ endurance ...sure it's above your average Joe, but hardly triathlete levels of fitness (& i say that from watching my son achieve his 2nd Dan Shotokan ...he's your average 24/7 Fortnite playing, lazy teenager )

[NewUsername]

angrymoby said:

NewUsername said:

I think at the time in 1992 you'd struggle to find a fitter driver on the grid than Nigel, he prepared himself exceptionally. maybe in a different way as you had to have strength for the active cars in 92 but he was supremely fit, and a 3rd Dan Black Belt to boot

Senna had an Olympic performance specialist as his personal trainer ...think he might have pipped our big boned Nige (& Schumacher would've undoubtedly been even fitter when at 40)

sure Nige was muscular, but not sure being a 3rd Dan (in what?) equates to showing a particular level of fitness/ endurance ...sure it's above your average Joe, but hardly triathlete levels of fitness (& i say that from watching my son achieve his 2nd Dan Shotokan ...he's your average 24/7 Fortnite playing, lazy teenager )

you need to go and read how Nigel prepared for 1992 then come back and say he wasn't particularly fit.....its detailed fairly well in "The Lion at Bay" by Christopher Hilton

[angrymoby]

NewUsername said:

you need to go and read how Nigel prepared for 1992 then come back and say he wasn't particularly fit.....its detailed fairly well in "The Lion at Bay" by Christopher Hilton

I didn't say he wasn't particularly fit (the whole grid of 1992 would've been fit) ...just that you don't have to be particularly fit to be a 3rd Dan in presumably Karate

[Halmyre]

NewUsername said:

angrymoby said:

NewUsername said:

I think at the time in 1992 you'd struggle to find a fitter driver on the grid than Nigel, he prepared himself exceptionally. maybe in a different way as you had to have strength for the active cars in 92 but he was supremely fit, and a 3rd Dan Black Belt to boot

Senna had an Olympic performance specialist as his personal trainer ...think he might have pipped our big boned Nige (& Schumacher would've undoubtedly been even fitter when at 40)

sure Nige was muscular, but not sure being a 3rd Dan (in what?) equates to showing a particular level of fitness/ endurance ...sure it's above your average Joe, but hardly triathlete levels of fitness (& i say that from watching my son achieve his 2nd Dan Shotokan ...he's your average 24/7 Fortnite playing, lazy teenager )

you need to go and read how Nigel prepared for 1992 then come back and say he wasn't particularly fit.....its detailed fairly well in "The Lion at Bay" by Christopher Hilton

Nigel's soupstrainer probably cost him at least half a second as well.

[kiseca]

Not quite on topic but I do recall reading that Nigel basically starved himself for a week just so that he could pscyche out Patrese at a weigh-in

[NewUsername]

kiseca said:

Not quite on topic but I do recall reading that Nigel basically starved himself for a week just so that he could pscyche out Patrese at a weigh-in

He trained exceptionally hard all winter in his Florida base

[Jasandjules]

DeltonaS said:

Remember a second a lap quicker in qualy during the first couple of years. Sometimes even 1.2. Unprecedented.

Are you joking? Historically there have been times when certain cars have been 2-3 seconds a lap faster than the rest...

[paulguitar]

Jasandjules said:

DeltonaS said:

Remember a second a lap quicker in qualy during the first couple of years. Sometimes even 1.2. Unprecedented.

Are you joking? Historically there have been times when certain cars have been 2-3 seconds a lap faster than the rest...

Indeed. It’s difficult to take anyone seriously who either does not know or makes up facts.

[coetzeeh]

ash73 said:

angrymoby said:

A44RON said:

Interesting, the Alonso lost against Hamilton; they finished on equal points in the same car. While Alonso beat Hamilton from 2010-2013 (actually finished ahead of him on points, not just equal points) in what many F1 experts describe as inferior cars, particularly in 2013.

same points- still lost ...to a rookie, a rookie who wasn't getting insider info on tyre pressures or balance from the Ferrari either

& yeah, the Ferrari was probably marginally worse than the McLaren ...then again, the Mclaren paring was stronger imo (x2 WDC drivers) & afaiaa no team orders (& i think we all know Fred likes being no.1, hence 'spy gate' ...& "Fernando is faster than you")

Eggs & baskets & all that

Ron Dennis - "We're racing Alonso".

Clearly remember that comment by Ron. Gave the plot away

[vdn]

coetzeeh said:

ash73 said:

angrymoby said:

A44RON said:

Interesting, the Alonso lost against Hamilton; they finished on equal points in the same car. While Alonso beat Hamilton from 2010-2013 (actually finished ahead of him on points, not just equal points) in what many F1 experts describe as inferior cars, particularly in 2013.

same points- still lost ...to a rookie, a rookie who wasn't getting insider info on tyre pressures or balance from the Ferrari either

& yeah, the Ferrari was probably marginally worse than the McLaren ...then again, the Mclaren paring was stronger imo (x2 WDC drivers) & afaiaa no team orders (& i think we all know Fred likes being no.1, hence 'spy gate' ...& "Fernando is faster than you")

Eggs & baskets & all that

Ron Dennis - "We're racing Alonso".

Clearly remember that comment by Ron. Gave the plot away

Poor ol’ Alonso. Having been trumped by a young rookie; threatening the team didn’t work out for him. Who’d have thunk it.

If only he could have outperformed the rookie on merit in the first place. Just imagine.

[DeltonaS]

Nice Talksport interview with Button, who comes to the same conclusion as me: "you can’t compare He’s (Lewis) been in a team that has dominated Formula 1."


https://talksport.com/sport/motorsport/617009/lewi...

And, asked if his fellow Brit is the best ever, Button said: “He’s very good.
“We were team-mates for three years so I could see first hand how good he is. His natural ability is fantastic.”
However, asked if it’s impossible to compare him to Jackie Stewart and the sport’s other icons, he added: “Yeah, you can’t compare.”

Continuing his previous answer, he added: “You really can’t compare. He’s been in a team that has dominated Formula 1.

By the way best bit of the interview:

“I think he is the fastest driver that has ever driven an F1 car, I really do,” the Brit added about the ‘special’ 22-year-old.
The Dutchman has a total of seven race wins to his name, with six podium finishes this season.
“I think he is unbelievably fast,” Button said. “Previously to this year he made some mistakes, as you would expect from a young driver, but now he’s doing such a fantastic job.
“I really do think he is very special.”

[vdn]

[HustleRussell]

BTW I have listened to that interview, your paraphrasing is highly creative

[paulguitar]

Max is a great talent, no doubt about it, and has huge potential. I think currently he is still some way off Hamilton’s level, overall, but he could still get there. He can be a little clumsy in wheel to wheel combat, I feel. He messes up a lot of starts as well.

Interesting Button considers him as fast as that. I have not heard the interview, and we know Deltona can be rather ‘creative’ with the facts, but if he did indeed say that, it’s high praise for Max.

[DeltonaS]

HustleRussell said:

BTW I have listened to that interview, your paraphrasing is highly creative

paulguitar said:

Interesting Button considers him as fast as that. I have not heard the interview, and we know Deltona can be rather ‘creative’ with the facts, but if he did indeed say that, it’s high praise for Max.

It's called quoting, even the blind/deaf can read/hear it from both the spoken and written interview text in the link.

The stupid however may still find it difficult.

Quite telling, though not revealing, given the armchair pundits that populate this part the forum.

[paulguitar]

DeltonaS said:

HustleRussell said:

BTW I have listened to that interview, your paraphrasing is highly creative

paulguitar said:

Interesting Button considers him as fast as that. I have not heard the interview, and we know Deltona can be rather ‘creative’ with the facts, but if he did indeed say that, it’s high praise for Max.

It's called quoting, even the blind/deaf can read/hear it from both the spoken and written interview text in the link.

The stupid however may still find it difficult.

Quite telling, though not revealing, given the armchair pundits that populate this part the forum.

Charming.


The reason I was being cautious is that you have previously been dishonest enough to make it hard to trust you. So, having not yet heard the interview, past experience suggests you could selectively quote, misquote or lie to support your argument.

Edited by paulguitar on Saturday 19th October 14:03

[KevinCamaroSS]

I prefer to look at facts and figures, rather than other drivers opinions for the simple reason that the drivers will always be biased in one direction, whatever direction that is.

E.g. JB saying MV is the fastest driver ever in F1. If that was the case he should be qualifying significantly ahead of AA, which he is not.

I believe that MV and CLC, along with a few others of the new generation, will take over at the top when LH decides to retire, but it will not be this year, or next year either.

Based on facts and figures LH is better than MS based on the fact that he has nearly equalled his records and has done so with the minimum of cheating.

In all likelihood he will equal or overtake the outright records next year. Also bear in mind LH has, to date, 60 fewer starts than MS.

[GOATever]

TheDeuce said:

Nothing even close since? I think the difference between the very best and worst F1 drivers has always been pretty slim in real terms. I completely disagree no-one has even come 'close' to Shumacher.

In terms of ‘bang for the buck’ there really has been nothing since.