Lewis Hamilton Vs Michael Schumacher - Who Is Better?

Lewis Hamilton Vs Michael Schumacher - Who Is Better?

Author
Discussion

HustleRussell

24,602 posts

159 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
DOCG said:
Rosberg was not that far behind Hamilton, in 2 of the 3 dominant seasons together the championship went to the final round.
(One of those two only because of double points)

LaurasOtherHalf

21,429 posts

195 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
DOCG said:
I never thought I'd see someone bother to write propaganda about an F1 driver.
Propaganda? hehe Ok...

Rather than taking pot shots at people's posts on a forum you joined a matter of weeks ago, why don't you try and change our mind with some reasoned debate on why you think Schumacher was indeed better? How old are you, early 20s? You must have done some serious research on the subject as most of what you're talking about happened when you were a child-so enthral us with your expertise thumbup

Edited by LaurasOtherHalf on Tuesday 5th November 13:22

Graveworm

8,476 posts

70 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
DOCG said:
There is not evidence that teams do believe that driver skill plays a large factor, marketing is just as big a reason as to what drivers a team will want to acquire. Ferrari were very keen to keep Massa until 2014 because their major sponsor (Santander) was expanding into Brazilian market at the time.

As for Brown and Lauda, they were luring the most marketable driver on the grid; British, media friendly, a good brand for Mercedes to associate themselves with.
Santander has been in Brazil since 97 Ferrari approached Rosberg to replace Massa in 2012 but apart from that spot on.

How on earth do you think you are the only one who knows this? Yes small teams need to sell seats but Manufacturer teams need to be winning races as that's what sells the cars.

vdn

8,905 posts

202 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
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Yes, Hamilton’s phenomenal rise through the ranks is irrelevant.

They could have just signed anyone, for marketing purposes. Lauda pursued Lewis for Mercedes marketing purposes apparently.

rolleyes

There’s some real thicko’s about; I can’t believe some people actually watch F1 and think these things. I also think there’s a lot of naivety toward lower formulae also... and driver successes pre F1.

37chevy

3,280 posts

155 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
vdn said:
Yes, Hamilton’s phenomenal rise through the ranks is irrelevant.

They could have just signed anyone, for marketing purposes. Lauda pursued Lewis for Mercedes marketing purposes apparently.

rolleyes

There’s some real thicko’s about; I can’t believe some people actually watch F1 and think these things. I also think there’s a lot of naivety toward lower formulae also... and driver successes pre F1.
indeed..if they wanted a driver for pure marketing value then surely Alex Yoong would have been a perfect tie In with Petronas...he could partner Scott Speed who would be a great tie in for IWC

Mr. White

1,029 posts

103 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
If Hamilton had 1) number 1 status and 2) a team that pitted him one lap earlier in China 2007, he would already be on 8 titles.

Yes, he's better than Schumacher.

vdn

8,905 posts

202 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
Mr. White said:
If Hamilton had 1) number 1 status and 2) a team that pitted him one lap earlier in China 2007, he would already be on 8 titles.

Yes, he's better than Schumacher.
yes

paulguitar

23,104 posts

112 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
Mr. White said:
If Hamilton had 1) number 1 status and 2) a team that pitted him one lap earlier in China 2007, he would already be on 8 titles.

Yes, he's better than Schumacher.
I certainly think that is accurate. If Hamilton had anything like the set-up that Schumacher had he'd be miles ahead already.



DOCG

534 posts

53 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Propaganda? hehe Ok...

Rather than taking pot shots at people's posts on a forum you joined a matter of weeks ago, why don't you try and change our mind with some reasoned debate on why you think Schumacher was indeed better? How old are you, early 20s? You must have done some serious research on the subject as most of what you're talking about happened when you were a child-so enthral us with your expertise thumbup

Edited by LaurasOtherHalf on Tuesday 5th November 13:22
I don't think Schumacher was a better driver. As I showed in my previous posts, it is impossible to tell either way because the differences are so small compared to the other factors in determining success.

DOCG

534 posts

53 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
Graveworm said:
Santander has been in Brazil since 97 Ferrari approached Rosberg to replace Massa in 2012 but apart from that spot on.

How on earth do you think you are the only one who knows this? Yes small teams need to sell seats but Manufacturer teams need to be winning races as that's what sells the cars.
I am not the only one who knows it, but everyone else underestimates the impact it has on driver selection.

paulguitar

23,104 posts

112 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
DOCG said:
I don't think Schumacher was a better driver. As I showed in my previous posts, it is impossible to tell either way because the differences are so small compared to the other factors in determining success.
In this era, the differences are indeed small, but there ARE differences.

It's certainly not 'impossible to tell either way', and actually, we have some called the world drivers championship which helps us with this...

DOCG

534 posts

53 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
Mr. White said:
If Hamilton had 1) number 1 status and 2) a team that pitted him one lap earlier in China 2007, he would already be on 8 titles.

Yes, he's better than Schumacher.
I used to think that titles determined who was the best driver, when I was a child.

And if he didn't join Mercedes he would only have one championship. Things could have always turned out a different way, it doesn't prove anything.

On a different point, China 2007 was the only time I ever saw a team force their driver to stay-out until the tyre was worn to the canvas. Peculiar. And then the gearbox "malfunction" in Brazil that magically fixed itself after Hamilton was overtaken by the entire field.

Edited by DOCG on Tuesday 5th November 15:02

paulguitar

23,104 posts

112 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
Halmyre said:
Brabham designer Ron Tauranac once said the best thing about the Lotus is Jim Clark; looking at the statistics for Clark's team mates Trevor Taylor, Peter Arundell and Mike Spence, you have to agree.
I wouldn't for a moment question Clark's greatness, but that is not exactly a roll-call of legendary teammates.






DOCG

534 posts

53 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
paulguitar said:
In this era, the differences are indeed small, but there ARE differences.

It's certainly not 'impossible to tell either way', and actually, we have some called the world drivers championship which helps us with this...
Yes, but driver difference is one of minor determinants of success. The difference between our opinions is that I probably believe the differences are a lot smaller than you do.

HardtopManual

2,404 posts

165 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
DOCG said:
I used to think that titles determined who was the best driver, when I was a child.
As the FIA are obviously using the wrong measure, what does determine who is the best driver?

Graveworm

8,476 posts

70 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
DOCG said:
Graveworm said:
Santander has been in Brazil since 97 Ferrari approached Rosberg to replace Massa in 2012 but apart from that spot on.

How on earth do you think you are the only one who knows this? Yes small teams need to sell seats but Manufacturer teams need to be winning races as that's what sells the cars.
I am not the only one who knows it, but everyone else underestimates the impact it has on driver selection.
Very occasionally being alone going against the traffic is a sign of true genius, but nearly always it's because they are driving the wrong direction.
Given it looks like you may be mistaken with your Massa theory, maybe you might want to check your bearings?
What additional marketing did Albon bring over Gasly, and why does his boss seem to think it is his driving that will decide whether he drives next year.
Kimi Raikkonen is one of the most popular drivers and an ex WDC but Ferrari let him go. They said it was because he was not competitive enough must have just been an excuse, as that doesn't matter.

37chevy

3,280 posts

155 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
DOCG said:
Mr. White said:
If Hamilton had 1) number 1 status and 2) a team that pitted him one lap earlier in China 2007, he would already be on 8 titles.

Yes, he's better than Schumacher.
I used to think that titles determined who was the best driver, when I was a child.

Edited by DOCG on Tuesday 5th November 15:02
So then why bother race at all? If championships aren’t a test of how good a driver, neither are wins...and if they aren’t a test then what’s the point in getting into F1....hell the natural conclusion is that YOUR’E a better driver than Hamilton...I mean we’ve got no way of proving otherwise, right?

DOCG

534 posts

53 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
Graveworm said:
Very occasionally being alone going against the traffic is a sign of true genius, but nearly always it's because they are driving the wrong direction.
Given it looks like you may be mistaken with your Massa theory, maybe you might want to check your bearings?
What additional marketing did Albon bring over Gasly, and why does his boss seem to think it is his driving that will decide whether he drives next year.
Kimi Raikkonen is one of the most popular drivers and an ex WDC but Ferrari let him go. They said it was because he was not competitive enough must have just been an excuse, as that doesn't matter.
What was wrong about the Massa theory? Santander invested heavily into Brazil in 2011 Source: https://www.santander.co.uk/assets/s3fs-public/doc...



I don't deny that drivers deteriorate as they get older.

paulguitar

23,104 posts

112 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
It's gone a bit surreal here.

DOCG

534 posts

53 months

Tuesday 5th November 2019
quotequote all
Sorry, it was in 2009 that Santander invested heavily in the Brazilian market: https://www.ft.com/content/1ff753e6-7bbc-11de-9772...


"Santander chief executive Emilio Botín has identified the bank’s Brazilian operations as key to the bank’s strategy, and revealed plans last year for it to become the most profitable listed bank in the country."