Lewis Hamilton Vs Michael Schumacher - Who Is Better?

Lewis Hamilton Vs Michael Schumacher - Who Is Better?

Author
Discussion

mattikake

5,057 posts

198 months

Wednesday 6th November 2019
quotequote all
You don't appear to understand what I'm talking about. Given your CD I take this as a deliberate ploy to deflect from something you can't "win".

I talk of wheel-to-wheel racing [race craft] and you counter it with race pace arguments. It's... bizarre.

I'm talking of fighting over the same piece of tarmac at the same time. Overtaking. Defending. Not race pace.

TobyTR said:
oh dear, still clutching at straws with the 43-year-old post-retired Schumacher getting beaten by 27-year-old Hamilton - bringing that up again just shows how weak your argument is. Will you be doing the same if Verstappen beats a 43-year-old out of retirement Lewis Hamilton?..... hehe


If verstappen out-battles Hamilton on the track, absolutely. Although recent on track scraps like Mexico would appear intelligence beats aggression as far as lewis v max has gone so far...

As I have already said, battling on track has little to do with age and everything about intelligence, wit and understanding of how to use different lines to affect a move.

Hamilton is in a class of one. Never flustered and always able to think quicker.

TobyTR said:
On page 21 of this thread you said "I cannot think of one single moment where Schumacher demonstrated anywhere near the same level of wheel-to-wheel racecraft. Even masters of overtaking racecraft and understanding like Lauda, Keke, Jones, Mansell, Prost haven't shown such intelligence and clinical quick thinking nor with anywhere near the regularity. IMO Hamilton is literally in a class of one in this respect." - which is total biased nonsense.
.

No it's an opinion and I stand by it. People are allowed to have an opinion. "Biased nonsense" is a very mentally unstable thing to say about an opinion. (One that is born out of 35 years following f1). I've seen a lot of drivers come and go.

Mansell had a no fear aggressive and flamboyant overtake craft frequently executing "the dummy" unnecessarily. Lauda pure intelligence and experience. Prost similar to lauda but more measured and error free. Jones was masterful in making planning look like opportunism - surprise attacks. Keke had such amazing throttle control he created the concept of power oversteer overtaking - the undefendable king of all moves.

As a schumacher fan, I suspect you have no idea what I'm talking about. Schumacher had nothing special or exciting in his moves, mostly dirt, cheat and ram. Little different to the likes of many midfield problem drivers like Maldonado or Perez.

TobyTR said:
I've proven with facts that Alonso eclipsed Hamilton across multiple seasons in wheel-to-wheel racecraft. So Hamilton was not "in a class of one" in this respect.
No you've made an argument for race pace, not wheel-to-wheel battling. Why do you think this is the same thing? Seriously. And why do you think arguing a totally different point somehow counters the original one?

Just been watching the new sky f1 "classic hamilton" series. China 2011. Some other things I forget about how great hamilton's overtaking prowess is. This race was a good example of how he quickly and clinically overtakes and makes them count. Everyone else seems to make it look harder and take too long to do it. Meanwhile hamilton gets free and clear. He gets it done quickly and this gains him time on the track. He has this ability to maximise different lines at the right time to run just that little bit closer to the guy in front than anyone else can. That's part of what makes his moves look so effortless and ultimately, undefendable.



Edited by mattikake on Thursday 7th November 00:07

DOCG

534 posts

53 months

Thursday 7th November 2019
quotequote all
E34-3.2 said:
in my opinion. He’s done it on his own

Link: https://www.planetf1.com/news/ej-hamilton-is-bette...
??????? Is EJ really implying that Hamilton hasn't received support from Mercedes? This is just sensationalist drivel,

glazbagun

14,259 posts

196 months

Thursday 7th November 2019
quotequote all
DOCG said:
E34-3.2 said:
in my opinion. He’s done it on his own

Link: https://www.planetf1.com/news/ej-hamilton-is-bette...
??????? Is EJ really implying that Hamilton hasn't received support from Mercedes? This is just sensationalist drivel,
No he's implying he's done it without demanding preferential treatment.

heebeegeetee

28,591 posts

247 months

Thursday 7th November 2019
quotequote all
DOCG said:
E34-3.2 said:
in my opinion. He’s done it on his own

Link: https://www.planetf1.com/news/ej-hamilton-is-bette...
??????? Is EJ really implying that Hamilton hasn't received support from Mercedes? This is just sensationalist drivel,
Eh?

vdn

8,905 posts

202 months

Friday 8th November 2019
quotequote all
DOCG said:
E34-3.2 said:
in my opinion. He’s done it on his own

Link: https://www.planetf1.com/news/ej-hamilton-is-bette...
??????? Is EJ really implying that Hamilton hasn't received support from Mercedes? This is just sensationalist drivel,
EJ isn’t ‘implying’ that at all.

I suggest you give it another read wink



cayman-black

12,625 posts

215 months

Tuesday 12th November 2019
quotequote all
Until Hamilton can win a championship with Ferrari he will never be as good as Shumacher.

paulguitar

23,104 posts

112 months

Tuesday 12th November 2019
quotequote all
cayman-black said:
Until Hamilton can win a championship with Ferrari he will never be as good as Shumacher.
confused


This, surely, is just trolling.



sparta6

3,689 posts

99 months

Tuesday 12th November 2019
quotequote all
cayman-black said:
Until Hamilton can win a championship with Ferrari he will never be as good as Shumacher.
Winning a WDC with Ferrari seems to be the biggest challenge in F1, and biggest pressure.

It was a long drought before MSC developed the Ferrari into a contender and finally nailed one down and got the ball rolling.

Kimi caught the back end of that amazing inertia while other drivers tripped themselves up.
I think Kimi got paid 51million USD in his WDC season so not bad work.



HustleRussell

24,602 posts

159 months

Tuesday 12th November 2019
quotequote all
cayman-black said:
Until Hamilton can win a championship with Ferrari he will never be as good as Shumacher.
F1 expert can't spell 'Schumacher'

Until Schumacher can win a championship with Mercedes he will never be as good as Hamilton.

sparta6

3,689 posts

99 months

Tuesday 12th November 2019
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
Until Schumacher can win a championship with Mercedes he will never be as good as Hamilton.
Haha.

If Hamilton wasn't around Bottas would be WDC in the Mercedes.



37chevy

3,280 posts

155 months

Tuesday 12th November 2019
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
Haha.

If Hamilton wasn't around Bottas would be WDC in the Mercedes.
except he is, and hes better

if vettel wasn't in the red bull, webber would have won
if Schumacher wasn't in the Ferrari Barrichello would have won

if buts and maybes

37chevy

3,280 posts

155 months

Tuesday 12th November 2019
quotequote all
cayman-black said:
Until Hamilton can win a championship with Ferrari he will never be as good as Shumacher.
want him to win in a Benetton too?

kiseca

9,339 posts

218 months

Tuesday 12th November 2019
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
HustleRussell said:
Until Schumacher can win a championship with Mercedes he will never be as good as Hamilton.
Haha.

If Hamilton wasn't around Bottas would be WDC in the Mercedes.
Once in 3 attempts. And Vettel would have 6 titles now.

paulguitar

23,104 posts

112 months

Tuesday 12th November 2019
quotequote all
All that's left is for some bright spark to say 'Hamilton has not proved himself until he has outperformed a crap car' and we will have had full denial bingo. smile

Exige77

6,518 posts

190 months

Tuesday 12th November 2019
quotequote all
37chevy said:
cayman-black said:
Until Hamilton can win a championship with Ferrari he will never be as good as Shumacher.
want him to win in a Benetton too?
If Senna hadn’t lost just life, MS wouldn’t have had any WDCs.

So many ifs and buts.


sparta6

3,689 posts

99 months

Tuesday 12th November 2019
quotequote all
37chevy said:
cayman-black said:
Until Hamilton can win a championship with Ferrari he will never be as good as Shumacher.
want him to win in a Benetton too?
In the absence of a Flux Capacitor, a Renault will have to suffice wink

sparta6

3,689 posts

99 months

Tuesday 12th November 2019
quotequote all
Exige77 said:
If Senna hadn’t lost just life, MS wouldn’t have had any WDCs.

So many ifs and buts.
Are you sure about that ?
Schumacher was pushing Senna in the Williams to the max

paulguitar

23,104 posts

112 months

Tuesday 12th November 2019
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
Exige77 said:
If Senna hadn’t lost just life, MS wouldn’t have had any WDCs.

So many ifs and buts.
Are you sure about that ?
Schumacher was pushing Senna in the Williams to the max
It is such a shame we never got to see that battle. I suspect that Senna would have won the 1994 title fairly easily since Williams did sort themselves out that year and fixed their handling issues, but it would have been great fun to watch.

kiseca

9,339 posts

218 months

Tuesday 12th November 2019
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
Exige77 said:
If Senna hadn’t lost just life, MS wouldn’t have had any WDCs.

So many ifs and buts.
Are you sure about that ?
Schumacher was pushing Senna in the Williams to the max
Ifs and buts, as said, but also don't think Senna would have stopped Schumacher. For all Senna's strengths, he wasn't the best at gathering points and was always vulnerable to losing a championship to a fast and consistent opponent, like Schumacher, because Senna was flat out everywhere, and if he didn't win, there was a fair chance it was because he crashed or his car broke.

Even in that last season, he binned it trying to keep up with Schumacher in the first race. Second race he was the victim of someone else's crash, and third race, he was at max attack trying to keep ahead of Schumacher, and debatable whether he crashed then through his own accord or suffered a mechanical failure (I can believe he was always capable of the former, but that time suffered the latter - but noone who knows for sure is saying, if anyone even does.

Senna had a vulnerability and Schumacher had the right tools to exploit it.

TheInternet

4,703 posts

162 months

Tuesday 12th November 2019
quotequote all
Did Schumacher's preferential status make the difference in any of his WDCs? 2000, and 2003 seem close enough that it might have done but it'd be good to know to what degree.