Lewis Hamilton Vs Michael Schumacher - Who Is Better?
Discussion
You don't appear to understand what I'm talking about. Given your CD I take this as a deliberate ploy to deflect from something you can't "win".
I talk of wheel-to-wheel racing [race craft] and you counter it with race pace arguments. It's... bizarre.
I'm talking of fighting over the same piece of tarmac at the same time. Overtaking. Defending. Not race pace.
If verstappen out-battles Hamilton on the track, absolutely. Although recent on track scraps like Mexico would appear intelligence beats aggression as far as lewis v max has gone so far...
As I have already said, battling on track has little to do with age and everything about intelligence, wit and understanding of how to use different lines to affect a move.
Hamilton is in a class of one. Never flustered and always able to think quicker.
No it's an opinion and I stand by it. People are allowed to have an opinion. "Biased nonsense" is a very mentally unstable thing to say about an opinion. (One that is born out of 35 years following f1). I've seen a lot of drivers come and go.
Mansell had a no fear aggressive and flamboyant overtake craft frequently executing "the dummy" unnecessarily. Lauda pure intelligence and experience. Prost similar to lauda but more measured and error free. Jones was masterful in making planning look like opportunism - surprise attacks. Keke had such amazing throttle control he created the concept of power oversteer overtaking - the undefendable king of all moves.
As a schumacher fan, I suspect you have no idea what I'm talking about. Schumacher had nothing special or exciting in his moves, mostly dirt, cheat and ram. Little different to the likes of many midfield problem drivers like Maldonado or Perez.
Just been watching the new sky f1 "classic hamilton" series. China 2011. Some other things I forget about how great hamilton's overtaking prowess is. This race was a good example of how he quickly and clinically overtakes and makes them count. Everyone else seems to make it look harder and take too long to do it. Meanwhile hamilton gets free and clear. He gets it done quickly and this gains him time on the track. He has this ability to maximise different lines at the right time to run just that little bit closer to the guy in front than anyone else can. That's part of what makes his moves look so effortless and ultimately, undefendable.
I talk of wheel-to-wheel racing [race craft] and you counter it with race pace arguments. It's... bizarre.
I'm talking of fighting over the same piece of tarmac at the same time. Overtaking. Defending. Not race pace.
TobyTR said:
oh dear, still clutching at straws with the 43-year-old post-retired Schumacher getting beaten by 27-year-old Hamilton - bringing that up again just shows how weak your argument is. Will you be doing the same if Verstappen beats a 43-year-old out of retirement Lewis Hamilton?.....
If verstappen out-battles Hamilton on the track, absolutely. Although recent on track scraps like Mexico would appear intelligence beats aggression as far as lewis v max has gone so far...
As I have already said, battling on track has little to do with age and everything about intelligence, wit and understanding of how to use different lines to affect a move.
Hamilton is in a class of one. Never flustered and always able to think quicker.
TobyTR said:
On page 21 of this thread you said "I cannot think of one single moment where Schumacher demonstrated anywhere near the same level of wheel-to-wheel racecraft. Even masters of overtaking racecraft and understanding like Lauda, Keke, Jones, Mansell, Prost haven't shown such intelligence and clinical quick thinking nor with anywhere near the regularity. IMO Hamilton is literally in a class of one in this respect." - which is total biased nonsense.
.No it's an opinion and I stand by it. People are allowed to have an opinion. "Biased nonsense" is a very mentally unstable thing to say about an opinion. (One that is born out of 35 years following f1). I've seen a lot of drivers come and go.
Mansell had a no fear aggressive and flamboyant overtake craft frequently executing "the dummy" unnecessarily. Lauda pure intelligence and experience. Prost similar to lauda but more measured and error free. Jones was masterful in making planning look like opportunism - surprise attacks. Keke had such amazing throttle control he created the concept of power oversteer overtaking - the undefendable king of all moves.
As a schumacher fan, I suspect you have no idea what I'm talking about. Schumacher had nothing special or exciting in his moves, mostly dirt, cheat and ram. Little different to the likes of many midfield problem drivers like Maldonado or Perez.
TobyTR said:
I've proven with facts that Alonso eclipsed Hamilton across multiple seasons in wheel-to-wheel racecraft. So Hamilton was not "in a class of one" in this respect.
No you've made an argument for race pace, not wheel-to-wheel battling. Why do you think this is the same thing? Seriously. And why do you think arguing a totally different point somehow counters the original one?Just been watching the new sky f1 "classic hamilton" series. China 2011. Some other things I forget about how great hamilton's overtaking prowess is. This race was a good example of how he quickly and clinically overtakes and makes them count. Everyone else seems to make it look harder and take too long to do it. Meanwhile hamilton gets free and clear. He gets it done quickly and this gains him time on the track. He has this ability to maximise different lines at the right time to run just that little bit closer to the guy in front than anyone else can. That's part of what makes his moves look so effortless and ultimately, undefendable.
Edited by mattikake on Thursday 7th November 00:07
E34-3.2 said:
??????? Is EJ really implying that Hamilton hasn't received support from Mercedes? This is just sensationalist drivel, DOCG said:
E34-3.2 said:
??????? Is EJ really implying that Hamilton hasn't received support from Mercedes? This is just sensationalist drivel, DOCG said:
E34-3.2 said:
??????? Is EJ really implying that Hamilton hasn't received support from Mercedes? This is just sensationalist drivel, DOCG said:
E34-3.2 said:
??????? Is EJ really implying that Hamilton hasn't received support from Mercedes? This is just sensationalist drivel, I suggest you give it another read
cayman-black said:
Until Hamilton can win a championship with Ferrari he will never be as good as Shumacher.
Winning a WDC with Ferrari seems to be the biggest challenge in F1, and biggest pressure.It was a long drought before MSC developed the Ferrari into a contender and finally nailed one down and got the ball rolling.
Kimi caught the back end of that amazing inertia while other drivers tripped themselves up.
I think Kimi got paid 51million USD in his WDC season so not bad work.
sparta6 said:
Exige77 said:
If Senna hadn’t lost just life, MS wouldn’t have had any WDCs.
So many ifs and buts.
Are you sure about that ? So many ifs and buts.
Schumacher was pushing Senna in the Williams to the max
sparta6 said:
Exige77 said:
If Senna hadn’t lost just life, MS wouldn’t have had any WDCs.
So many ifs and buts.
Are you sure about that ? So many ifs and buts.
Schumacher was pushing Senna in the Williams to the max
Even in that last season, he binned it trying to keep up with Schumacher in the first race. Second race he was the victim of someone else's crash, and third race, he was at max attack trying to keep ahead of Schumacher, and debatable whether he crashed then through his own accord or suffered a mechanical failure (I can believe he was always capable of the former, but that time suffered the latter - but noone who knows for sure is saying, if anyone even does.
Senna had a vulnerability and Schumacher had the right tools to exploit it.
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