Lewis Hamilton Vs Michael Schumacher - Who Is Better?

Lewis Hamilton Vs Michael Schumacher - Who Is Better?

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Discussion

Deesee

3,140 posts

30 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
JP on the bbc..

Nice video from Jack Nicholls..(5 live commentary). Must watch..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/50284865

vdn

6,913 posts

150 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
Deesee said:
JP on the bbc..

Nice video from Jack Nicholls..(5 live commentary). Must watch..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/50284865
Ouch! Agree with every word of that video.

vdn

6,913 posts

150 months

Wednesday 6th November
quotequote all
E34-3.2 said:
...

“Everyone has their own view on this, but I am of the view he’s already surpassed Michael,” the former F1 team boss told talkSPORT.

“Michael started with me so there is a love affair there, but there is a situation some people may not fully grasp.

“At the time I handled people like [Rubens] Barrichello, [Eddie] Irvine, [Giancarlo] Fisichella and [Jean] Alesi, and every time we went to sign a contract with Michael Schumacher or Ferrari it always had conditions in it, where what we saw in Austin wouldn’t have been allowed to happen.

“Lewis, if he had in his contract the same things, he would have had to been able to pass [Valtteri] Bottas [to win the race].

“You can’t have that in a competitive sport, where one part of the team dictates to the other.

“For me, that is a flaw factor for Michael.

“Seven World Championships… how many would he have won if he hadn’t had the influence and support of the other people in the team?

“And I’m not just talking about team members – I’m talking about the drivers.

“Lewis is already in a different league, in my opinion. He’s done it on his own

Link: https://www.planetf1.com/news/ej-hamilton-is-bette...
Double ouch!

So true though. As stated umpteen times; if Hamilton had enjoyed the un-level playing field MS did; we’d have an 8 time word champion on our hands; looking for a 9th next year.

The spotlight is focussing more and more on MS as Hamilton closes in on the records, and hindsight is not looking kindly on Schumacher.

mattikake

4,728 posts

146 months

Wednesday 6th November
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You don't appear to understand what I'm talking about. Given your CD I take this as a deliberate ploy to deflect from something you can't "win".

I talk of wheel-to-wheel racing [race craft] and you counter it with race pace arguments. It's... bizarre.

I'm talking of fighting over the same piece of tarmac at the same time. Overtaking. Defending. Not race pace.

TobyTR said:
oh dear, still clutching at straws with the 43-year-old post-retired Schumacher getting beaten by 27-year-old Hamilton - bringing that up again just shows how weak your argument is. Will you be doing the same if Verstappen beats a 43-year-old out of retirement Lewis Hamilton?..... hehe


If verstappen out-battles Hamilton on the track, absolutely. Although recent on track scraps like Mexico would appear intelligence beats aggression as far as lewis v max has gone so far...

As I have already said, battling on track has little to do with age and everything about intelligence, wit and understanding of how to use different lines to affect a move.

Hamilton is in a class of one. Never flustered and always able to think quicker.

TobyTR said:
On page 21 of this thread you said "I cannot think of one single moment where Schumacher demonstrated anywhere near the same level of wheel-to-wheel racecraft. Even masters of overtaking racecraft and understanding like Lauda, Keke, Jones, Mansell, Prost haven't shown such intelligence and clinical quick thinking nor with anywhere near the regularity. IMO Hamilton is literally in a class of one in this respect." - which is total biased nonsense.
.

No it's an opinion and I stand by it. People are allowed to have an opinion. "Biased nonsense" is a very mentally unstable thing to say about an opinion. (One that is born out of 35 years following f1). I've seen a lot of drivers come and go.

Mansell had a no fear aggressive and flamboyant overtake craft frequently executing "the dummy" unnecessarily. Lauda pure intelligence and experience. Prost similar to lauda but more measured and error free. Jones was masterful in making planning look like opportunism - surprise attacks. Keke had such amazing throttle control he created the concept of power oversteer overtaking - the undefendable king of all moves.

As a schumacher fan, I suspect you have no idea what I'm talking about. Schumacher had nothing special or exciting in his moves, mostly dirt, cheat and ram. Little different to the likes of many midfield problem drivers like Maldonado or Perez.

TobyTR said:
I've proven with facts that Alonso eclipsed Hamilton across multiple seasons in wheel-to-wheel racecraft. So Hamilton was not "in a class of one" in this respect.
No you've made an argument for race pace, not wheel-to-wheel battling. Why do you think this is the same thing? Seriously. And why do you think arguing a totally different point somehow counters the original one?

Just been watching the new sky f1 "classic hamilton" series. China 2011. Some other things I forget about how great hamilton's overtaking prowess is. This race was a good example of how he quickly and clinically overtakes and makes them count. Everyone else seems to make it look harder and take too long to do it. Meanwhile hamilton gets free and clear. He gets it done quickly and this gains him time on the track. He has this ability to maximise different lines at the right time to run just that little bit closer to the guy in front than anyone else can. That's part of what makes his moves look so effortless and ultimately, undefendable.



Edited by mattikake on Thursday 7th November 00:07

DOCG

72 posts

1 month

Thursday 7th November
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E34-3.2 said:
in my opinion. He’s done it on his own

Link: https://www.planetf1.com/news/ej-hamilton-is-bette...
??????? Is EJ really implying that Hamilton hasn't received support from Mercedes? This is just sensationalist drivel,

glazbagun

10,065 posts

144 months

Thursday 7th November
quotequote all
DOCG said:
E34-3.2 said:
in my opinion. He’s done it on his own

Link: https://www.planetf1.com/news/ej-hamilton-is-bette...
??????? Is EJ really implying that Hamilton hasn't received support from Mercedes? This is just sensationalist drivel,
No he's implying he's done it without demanding preferential treatment.

heebeegeetee

26,772 posts

195 months

Thursday 7th November
quotequote all
DOCG said:
E34-3.2 said:
in my opinion. He’s done it on his own

Link: https://www.planetf1.com/news/ej-hamilton-is-bette...
??????? Is EJ really implying that Hamilton hasn't received support from Mercedes? This is just sensationalist drivel,
Eh?

vdn

6,913 posts

150 months

Friday 8th November
quotequote all
DOCG said:
E34-3.2 said:
in my opinion. He’s done it on his own

Link: https://www.planetf1.com/news/ej-hamilton-is-bette...
??????? Is EJ really implying that Hamilton hasn't received support from Mercedes? This is just sensationalist drivel,
EJ isn’t ‘implying’ that at all.

I suggest you give it another read wink



cayman-black

8,166 posts

163 months

Tuesday 12th November
quotequote all
Until Hamilton can win a championship with Ferrari he will never be as good as Shumacher.

paulguitar

3,800 posts

60 months

Tuesday 12th November
quotequote all
cayman-black said:
Until Hamilton can win a championship with Ferrari he will never be as good as Shumacher.
confused


This, surely, is just trolling.



sparta6

1,396 posts

47 months

Tuesday 12th November
quotequote all
cayman-black said:
Until Hamilton can win a championship with Ferrari he will never be as good as Shumacher.
Winning a WDC with Ferrari seems to be the biggest challenge in F1, and biggest pressure.

It was a long drought before MSC developed the Ferrari into a contender and finally nailed one down and got the ball rolling.

Kimi caught the back end of that amazing inertia while other drivers tripped themselves up.
I think Kimi got paid 51million USD in his WDC season so not bad work.



HustleRussell

17,081 posts

107 months

Tuesday 12th November
quotequote all
cayman-black said:
Until Hamilton can win a championship with Ferrari he will never be as good as Shumacher.
F1 expert can't spell 'Schumacher'

Until Schumacher can win a championship with Mercedes he will never be as good as Hamilton.

sparta6

1,396 posts

47 months

Tuesday 12th November
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
Until Schumacher can win a championship with Mercedes he will never be as good as Hamilton.
Haha.

If Hamilton wasn't around Bottas would be WDC in the Mercedes.



37chevy

3,211 posts

103 months

Tuesday 12th November
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
Haha.

If Hamilton wasn't around Bottas would be WDC in the Mercedes.
except he is, and hes better

if vettel wasn't in the red bull, webber would have won
if Schumacher wasn't in the Ferrari Barrichello would have won

if buts and maybes

37chevy

3,211 posts

103 months

Tuesday 12th November
quotequote all
cayman-black said:
Until Hamilton can win a championship with Ferrari he will never be as good as Shumacher.
want him to win in a Benetton too?

kiseca

7,658 posts

166 months

Tuesday 12th November
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
HustleRussell said:
Until Schumacher can win a championship with Mercedes he will never be as good as Hamilton.
Haha.

If Hamilton wasn't around Bottas would be WDC in the Mercedes.
Once in 3 attempts. And Vettel would have 6 titles now.

paulguitar

3,800 posts

60 months

Tuesday 12th November
quotequote all
All that's left is for some bright spark to say 'Hamilton has not proved himself until he has outperformed a crap car' and we will have had full denial bingo. smile

Exige77

3,960 posts

138 months

Tuesday 12th November
quotequote all
37chevy said:
cayman-black said:
Until Hamilton can win a championship with Ferrari he will never be as good as Shumacher.
want him to win in a Benetton too?
If Senna hadn’t lost just life, MS wouldn’t have had any WDCs.

So many ifs and buts.


sparta6

1,396 posts

47 months

Tuesday 12th November
quotequote all
37chevy said:
cayman-black said:
Until Hamilton can win a championship with Ferrari he will never be as good as Shumacher.
want him to win in a Benetton too?
In the absence of a Flux Capacitor, a Renault will have to suffice wink

sparta6

1,396 posts

47 months

Tuesday 12th November
quotequote all
Exige77 said:
If Senna hadn’t lost just life, MS wouldn’t have had any WDCs.

So many ifs and buts.
Are you sure about that ?
Schumacher was pushing Senna in the Williams to the max