Lewis Hamilton Vs Michael Schumacher - Who Is Better?

Lewis Hamilton Vs Michael Schumacher - Who Is Better?

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sparta6

2,277 posts

60 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
Schumacher was among those who professionalised the sport from a maximizing every sporting opportunity, attention to detail and physical fitness perspective.

Perhaps the Mercedes era marks the wholesome, holistic, warm and fuzzy 'mindfulness' revolution- empowering people to be innovative and decisive, the end of blame culture, the "how does that make you feel" movement.

You are correct.
Previous eras were tough, Darwinian, and drivers such as Jones, Lauda, Senna, Schumacher had what it took to compete and win.
Whether Hamilton with his more sensitive Little Mermaid character would have prospered in such an environment we will never know.

kiseca

8,385 posts

179 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
HustleRussell said:
Schumacher was among those who professionalised the sport from a maximizing every sporting opportunity, attention to detail and physical fitness perspective.

Perhaps the Mercedes era marks the wholesome, holistic, warm and fuzzy 'mindfulness' revolution- empowering people to be innovative and decisive, the end of blame culture, the "how does that make you feel" movement.

You are correct.
Previous eras were tough, Darwinian, and drivers such as Jones, Lauda, Senna, Schumacher had what it took to compete and win.
Whether Hamilton with his more sensitive Little Mermaid character would have prospered in such an environment we will never know.
Well he's less likely to have been a Vegan eco warrior back in the '80s because back then, firstly, the popular fights were ban the whales, save the bomb, dogs are people too (or something like that) and there was no twitter, Facepalm nor online forums so most of us would be none the wiser and just see a fast, chilled Formula 1 driver with a nice AC Cobra.

I have little doubt that if you took any driver from any era and could have them grow up in a different era, they'd still gravitate towards cars. Their ultimate success would depend on how well matched the cars and regs were to whatever skills it was that set them apart, but given the same opportunities as contemporaries, they'd be as fit as was needed, have started as young as was needed (Raikkonen and Damon Hill being notable exceptions who succeeded after late starts) but I can't even say, if Jim Clark was born 20 years ago, would he make it into F1 today? If Hamilton was born in Clark's day, would he make it to the top level? There are so many outside factors that also need to line up but the basic ingredients of driving a car quickly, picking the fastest line, working around problems, and the simple thrill and thirst for speed and competition, they're all the same. So, given the opportunity, I'd like to think that most of the greats could make a splash in any era but it's impossible to say for sure. One thing, Clark was smooth, and that seems to work in any era. Hunt, for instance, liked to slide the car around and never got on with the ground effect cars which needed to be kept tidy.

The people with the right gifts shone when those gifts were a valuable advantage, I guess, and the value of those gifts changes as Formula 1 evolves.

37chevy

3,280 posts

116 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
You are correct.
Previous eras were tough, Darwinian, and drivers such as Jones, Lauda, Senna, Schumacher had what it took to compete and win.
Whether Hamilton with his more sensitive Little Mermaid character would have prospered in such an environment we will never know.
if I remember correctly, drivers/ fans were condemning Jackie Stewart for being over sensitive and too safe....look how that turned out

NewUsername

925 posts

16 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
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TobyTR said:
NewUsername said:
Shuey was also not great at testing, his feedback was bland and rather than solve an issue or work a better setup he’d just drive round problems with massive speed. Huge natural talent but an engineers nightmare sometimes. A lot of his testing was for confidence/ego to convince himself he was still quick.

As for setting the standard in physical and technical preparation and driving a team forward, have a read about Mansells return to Williams in 1991, his stipulated terms and how he prepared for 1992.

Shuey was very good no doubt but I’d say 94,97 and countless team orders take the shine off it for me, especially once you start to get into details of his testing ( listen to interviews with John Barnard and Eddie Irvine)
Ross Brawn, Jean Todt, Rory Byrne, Felipe Massa and Briatore have said the opposite.
I've also heard Ross Brawn comment on the fact MS could 'hide' deficiencies in the car which only came to light when other drivers drove the car because he could just adapt to problems so well. .... You just listen to the bits you want to listen to.
I will never agree that he was that far ahead of everyone else, he just worked the circumstances very well, the same as Lewis has recently and the same as others have managed in shorter bursts. Take a load of F1 drivers, put them all in the same car and they'd all be very close but as we know it doesn't work like that (THANK GOD)

He was also rubbish when he returned with Mercedes when he was less able to set up a favourable position. Age was nothing to do with it, Mansell won in F1 at 40

Edited by NewUsername on Wednesday 16th October 13:11

HustleRussell

18,640 posts

120 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
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NewUsername said:
Shuey was also not great at testing, his feedback was bland
In contrast to Mika Hakkinen who would often communicate his setup preferences in the form of interpretive dance.

DeltonaS

2,873 posts

98 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
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vdn said:
It’s rose tinted specs I’m afraid. Schuey is ‘da best evaaaa’ type fans are a law unto themselves. He was awesome but enjoyed more bias than any other driver before or since.
And Ham enjoyed the most dominant car to date in F1, for 6 years in row now. Ham was almost in a different car,

Remember a second a lap quicker in qualy during the first couple of years. Sometimes even 1.2. Unprecedented.

What If Lewis Hamilton had signed with Red Bull for the 2013 Formula 1 Season?
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2610091-what-i...

Having witnessed Red Bull and Sebastian Vettel capture four straight titles, Hamilton was "desperate" to move to Red Bull, according to Horner. "In 2012, he wanted to come and drive for us, but there was no way we could accommodate him while Sebastian was with us. Then before he signed for Mercedes he was very keen to drive for Red Bull for 2013."


The hybrid engine formula gave Ham more than a couple of WDC's. Ham is lucky boy.

DeltonaS

2,873 posts

98 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
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macdeb said:
Well I haven't seen Hamilton drive into another car to secure a championship and deny the closest rival. So I'd say Hamilton.
He never had to, see my post above.

37chevy

3,280 posts

116 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
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DeltonaS said:
And Ham enjoyed the most dominant car to date in F1, for 6 years in row now. Ham was almost in a different car,

Remember a second a lap quicker in qualy during the first couple of years. Sometimes even 1.2. Unprecedented.

What If Lewis Hamilton had signed with Red Bull for the 2013 Formula 1 Season?
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2610091-what-i...

Having witnessed Red Bull and Sebastian Vettel capture four straight titles, Hamilton was "desperate" to move to Red Bull, according to Horner. "In 2012, he wanted to come and drive for us, but there was no way we could accommodate him while Sebastian was with us. Then before he signed for Mercedes he was very keen to drive for Red Bull for 2013."


The hybrid engine formula gave Ham more than a couple of WDC's. Ham is lucky boy.
ahhh that old nugget again.

I mean if Hamilton had gone to red bull hed have had 5 titles, if hakkinen had gone to ferrrari hed have had 5, Alonso could have had more..

...fact is they went to those cars, beat their teammates in identical equiptment

every dominant f1 champion like Schumacher, vettel, Hamilton has a fair share of luck...the rest is down to talent and being able to deliver

37chevy

3,280 posts

116 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
quotequote all
DeltonaS said:
He never had to, see my post above.
Schumacher never had to....but he did, because he was a dirty driver and tried to cheat

DeltonaS

2,873 posts

98 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
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ChocolateFrog said:
DeltonaS said:
37chevy said:
Impossible to compare. Both greats in their respective generation
Mercedes advantage and dominance in the hybrid engine formula is certainly greater than Ferarri's dominance was in the Schumi days.

Schumi's input on the performance of Ferrari was therefor greater than Hamiltons performance was on Mercedes in his WDC wins.
You can't make that assumption, well you can but it makes you look silly.

Hamilton had terrible reliability issues when Rosberg won the championship, if it was for that he'd be just as dominant as MS was when Ferarri were on top.
Repeat: Mercedes advantage and dominance in the hybrid engine formula is certainly greater than Ferarri's dominance was in the Schumi days.

You can put a monkey in that Mercedes and it would still win. Especially the first 4 seasons of the hybrid formula. In qualy even up until last season Mercedes just turned the engine up, no competition whatsoever.

In the last 2 seasons you could say that Ferari was competition to a degree. But they screwed up any chance they did had because of reliability issues, and strategy failures. All nothing to do with Ham but with his car and team.

So any comparison between Ham. and Schumi based on wins, WDCs, poles is comparing apples and oranges or in your words, is just silly.



Edited by DeltonaS on Wednesday 16th October 17:36

37chevy

3,280 posts

116 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
quotequote all
DeltonaS said:
Repeat: Mercedes advantage and dominance in the hybrid engine formula is certainly greater than Ferarri's dominance was in the Schumi days.

You can put a monkey in that Mercedes and it would still win. Especially the first 4 seasons of the hybrid formula. In qualy even up until last season Mercedes just turned the engine up, no competition whatsoever.

In the last 2 seasons you could say that Ferari was competition to a degree. But they screwed up any chance they did had because of reliability issues, and strategy failures. All nothing to do with Ham but with his team car and team.

So any comparison between Ham. and Schumi based on wins, WDCs, poles is comparing apples and oranges or in your words, is just silly.
Dominance is dominance, you only need to be half a second quicker than the other guys to win a race.

monkey In the Mercedes....ahhh right, your granny too? strange that Hamilton kept beating those monkeys though

did Red Bull have monkeys when they won too?

Ferraris issues are their own...its for them to step up

comparison? yeh I mean, schumi had number 1 status, a subservient teammate, illegal cars, team orders, cheated by driving into others to win etc etc.

if you want to go down the apples and oranges route then Schumacher is a nobody, Fangio was better, had a higher win percentage, didn't need to cheat to win etc.

but hey im not saying schumi wasn't great, he was..but your constant drivel and hate towards Hamilton is mildly amusing and somewhat pathetic.

DeltonaS

2,873 posts

98 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
quotequote all
37chevy said:
DeltonaS said:
Repeat: Mercedes advantage and dominance in the hybrid engine formula is certainly greater than Ferarri's dominance was in the Schumi days.

You can put a monkey in that Mercedes and it would still win. Especially the first 4 seasons of the hybrid formula. In qualy even up until last season Mercedes just turned the engine up, no competition whatsoever.

In the last 2 seasons you could say that Ferari was competition to a degree. But they screwed up any chance they did had because of reliability issues, and strategy failures. All nothing to do with Ham but with his team car and team.

So any comparison between Ham. and Schumi based on wins, WDCs, poles is comparing apples and oranges or in your words, is just silly.
Dominance is dominance, you only need to be half a second quicker than the other guys to win a race.

monkey In the Mercedes....ahhh right, your granny too? strange that Hamilton kept beating those monkeys though

did Red Bull have monkeys when they won too?

Ferraris issues are their own...its for them to step up

comparison? yeh I mean, schumi had number 1 status, a subservient teammate, illegal cars, team orders, cheated by driving into others to win etc etc.

if you want to go down the apples and oranges route then Schumacher is a nobody, Fangio was better, had a higher win percentage, didn't need to cheat to win etc.

but hey im not saying schumi wasn't great, he was..but your constant drivel and hate towards Hamilton is mildly amusing and somewhat pathetic.
It's all very factual. You just can't stand your boy Ham. and his performances are being put in the light it deserves.

And who says Mercedes doesn't cheat ?

Since Ferrari has been somewhat of a competiitor Ham suddenly has that subservient teammate as well, called Bottas.





Edited by DeltonaS on Wednesday 16th October 17:47

37chevy

3,280 posts

116 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
quotequote all
DeltonaS said:
It's all very factual. You just can't stand your boy Ham. and his performances are being put in the light it deserves.

And who says Mercedes doesn't cheat ?

Since Ferari has been somewhat of a competiitor Ham suddenly has that subservient teammate as well, called Bottas.
hahaha

factual? ok want facts....5 championships, most poles, second most wins, didn't need to drive into others to win.

who says Mercedes don't cheat? well have they been caught by the rule makers?

Bottas a subservient teammate? yeh that's why he won at the weekend...granted he sometimes has to work for the best interests of the team, but hes not a contracted number 2 like schumachers teammates and receives the new parts unlike schumachers teammates.

but hey, not wasting my time with you anymore. youre entitled to your opinions on Hamilton....and im entitled to mine on you.

im perfectly happy with what Hamilton has achieved.....and im even happier knowing that every time he does well, every win, pole, championship and interview he does, it utterly boils your piss



Edited by 37chevy on Wednesday 16th October 15:31

HustleRussell

18,640 posts

120 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
quotequote all
DeltonaS said:
who says Mercedes doesn't cheat ?
I think that in the world of F1, the fact that nobody says that they do cheat is evidence enough for me

anonymous-user

14 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
quotequote all
37chevy said:
DeltonaS said:
It's all very factual. You just can't stand your boy Ham. and his performances are being put in the light it deserves.

And who says Mercedes doesn't cheat ?

Since Ferari has been somewhat of a competiitor Ham suddenly has that subservient teammate as well, called Bottas.
hahaha

factual? ok want facts....5 championships, most poles, second most wins, didn't need to drive into others to win.

who says Mercedes don't cheat? well have they been caught by the rule makers?

Bottas a subservient teammate? yeh that's why he won at the weekend...granted he sometimes has to work for the best interests of the team, but hes not a contracted number 2 like schumachers teammates and receives the new parts unlike schumachers teammates.

but hey, not wasting my time with you anymore. youre entitled to your opinions on Hamilton....and im entitled to mine on you.

im perfectly happy with what Hamilton has achieved.....and im even happier knowing that every time he does well, every win, pole, championship and interview he does, it utterly boils your piss



Edited by 37chevy on Wednesday 16th October 15:31
Sounds like it’s your piss that’s boiling! laugh

There’s little doubt that Mercedes have cheated in terms of breaking and bending the regulations on occasion. Just like they all do or will if they can get away with it.

As for Hamilton not driving into others, that worth two of these laughlaugh


37chevy

3,280 posts

116 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
Sounds like it’s your piss that’s boiling! laugh

There’s little doubt that Mercedes have cheated in terms of breaking and bending the regulations on occasion. Just like they all do or will if they can get away with it.

As for Hamilton not driving into others, that worth two of these laughlaugh
Haha my piss isn’t boiling at all!

I’m quite happy with the fact that schumacher is as good as or better than Lewis....the fact they compare the 2 is a compliment

Bending the rules? That’s not breaking them
Is it.

Please point me to where they have broken them.


Europa1

10,923 posts

148 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
quotequote all
DeltonaS said:
Ferari .
Please, have a word with yourself.

vdn

7,797 posts

163 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
DeltonaS said:
who says Mercedes doesn't cheat ?
I think that in the world of F1, the fact that nobody says that they do cheat is evidence enough for me
+1

DeltonaS is one sad individual. Must suck to be so blinkered.

DeltonaS

2,873 posts

98 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
quotequote all
vdn said:
HustleRussell said:
DeltonaS said:
who says Mercedes doesn't cheat ?
I think that in the world of F1, the fact that nobody says that they do cheat is evidence enough for me
+1

DeltonaS is one sad individual. Must suck to be so blinkered.
Quite a few Alan Partridges on this part of the forum:


Halmyre

8,585 posts

99 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
quotequote all
37chevy said:
sparta6 said:
You are correct.
Previous eras were tough, Darwinian, and drivers such as Jones, Lauda, Senna, Schumacher had what it took to compete and win.
Whether Hamilton with his more sensitive Little Mermaid character would have prospered in such an environment we will never know.
if I remember correctly, drivers/ fans were condemning Jackie Stewart for being over sensitive and too safe....look how that turned out
Stewart had the backing of most of the GPDA; he just got the flack for sticking his head above the parapet. I think Jacky Ickx was the only driver who spoke out against him. Ickx's beef with Stewart was that he wanted to set his own limits of what was acceptable, not have them imposed wholesale (or something like that). Ironically, it was Ickx who refused to start at Le Mans until he was properly buckled in - he walked across to his car while everyone else was running and did up his belts before setting off.