Renault Brakegate

[DaveTheRave87]

andburg said:

i see this as similar to engine maps.

Want to save fuel, switch to map 7.
Reduce torque as tyres degrade between 2 slow corners map 3.
Full beans overtake, map 1 and rotary dial 2

Surely these predefined maps are all aids?

Its no longer a direct connection from the throttle to the drivers right foot. For the same input in each map the car's performance would vary to aid the driver in their objective. The driver doesn't have to constantly adjust he presses a button and the car does it for him.

bit different to
save fuel - lift throttle
go faster - more throttle
protect rear tyres - apply throttle more gradually

The engine equivalent would be a button that puts the engine in the ideal map, without the driver having to know what that map is.

[Deesee]

DaveTheRave87 said:

The engine equivalent would be a button that puts the engine in the ideal map, without the driver having to know what that map is.

The drivers only have access to the maps once they are granted them and input a code / series of buttons (these are pre set and never the same, otherwise the clever buggers would remember them), others wise they would just put it in strat mode x/ K1+ etc rather than ask, they are told what maps to run in line with what expected deltas by the stat teams.

[StevieBee]

andburg said:

i see this as similar to engine maps.

Want to save fuel, switch to map 7.
Reduce torque as tyres degrade between 2 slow corners map 3.
Full beans overtake, map 1 and rotary dial 2

Surely these predefined maps are all aids?

That they maybe.

The difference is these are all permitted within the regulations.

[mat205125]

DaveTheRave87 said:

The engine equivalent would be a button that puts the engine in the ideal map, without the driver having to know what that map is.

The engine equivalent would included a function that automatically gave a different engine map depending on the part of the track that the car was driving, and would border on a traction control system ..... e.g. maybe a system that would dial back boost or throttle opening through the fastest corners, so the driver could just keep their foot planted, or a system where the driver could just mash the throttle coming off of a slow bend, and the engine would dial back to optimise traction and speed out of a bend.

[pits]

What I don't get is why it isn't being applied to all previous races? Why just exclude from Japan if they have (I guess) had it all year? As surely all races will have been using it and aided the driver.

[TheDeuce]

pits said:

What I don't get is why it isn't being applied to all previous races? Why just exclude from Japan if they have (I guess) had it all year? As surely all races will have been using it and aided the driver.

Because the FIA don't want to risk this being too bad for Renault, there is a real chance they will leave the sport if they were disqualified from the season, or effectively disqualified by writing off all but their final 4 races.

Happened countless times before. If their 'cheating' had had a major effect on the outcome of the championship it would be different, as it is they're effectively getting their wrists slapped. It's being played down by all involved.

[Deesee]

Wow no appeal from renault

[StevieBee]

TheDeuce said:

pits said:

What I don't get is why it isn't being applied to all previous races? Why just exclude from Japan if they have (I guess) had it all year? As surely all races will have been using it and aided the driver.

Because the FIA don't want to risk this being too bad for Renault, there is a real chance they will leave the sport if they were disqualified from the season, or effectively disqualified by writing off all but their final 4 races.

Happened countless times before. If their 'cheating' had had a major effect on the outcome of the championship it would be different, as it is they're effectively getting their wrists slapped. It's being played down by all involved.

I believe there is also the issue of retrospective enquiry. This particular issue was raised by another team relating the the race that had just ran so the FIA delegation were able to compound, asses and secure the evidence for further investigation. I would imagine it would be difficult to establish anything that they did at Silverstone or elsewhere if the matter was only raised now - unless you have a whistleblower with evidence.

[The Moose]

Deesee said:

Wow no appeal from renault

I wonder if that’s the agreement.

Don’t make a fuss, don’t appeal and we will go easy on you.

[Deesee]

Here it is in action, pre season testing with a go pro!

https://mobile.twitter.com/tgruener/status/1187444...

Video link, put up by f1.com

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PcL7I1NSQDs

Edited by Deesee on Thursday 24th October 20:54

[Deesee]

The Moose said:

Deesee said:

Wow no appeal from renault

I wonder if that’s the agreement.

Don’t make a fuss, don’t appeal and we will go easy on you.

I think they are happy it was cleared from the technical point of view, the sporting regs are to ambiguous.

I do however think we have not had the whole truth, and perhaps never will.

[TheDeuce]

I've no doubt Renault are delighted at the soft treatment and wouldn't have even considered appealing the decision, why would they want potentially more scrutiny over whatever they were doing?

Can of worms that Renault didn't want opened, and the FIA didn't want to open imo. Or at least not open any further than they absolutely had to, once they received the complaint.

I think this story ends here pretty much. I'm sure whatever Renault were doing will also cease too.

[biggrim]

Lots of flowery language used but let me get this straight. The system itself is, from a technical point, legal and within the regulations. However, from a sporting regulations point of view it’s deemed to be illegal? Sounds to me like the FIA have dropped the ball (shock) on having their regulations aligned. Unless I’ve got this completely wrong? I’m trying to of a suitable comparison but striking out. Maybe like if you find a legal way to make your 100kg of fuel pack more bang for buck so you could start with much less and not breach the fuel flow limit. Nah reading that last bit back sounds like a load of rubbish. Can’t think of a comparison.

[glazbagun]

Surely it's more like a DRS which operates by itself rather than with driver input or an engine mode which does the same.

Adjustable brake bias isn't illegal, but it can't be automatic.

[TheDeuce]

glazbagun said:

Surely it's more like a DRS which operates by itself rather than with driver input or an engine mode which does the same.

Adjustable brake bias isn't illegal, but it can't be automatic.

That's basically it.

And to refer to another point made earlier, certain mapping systems are allowable generally in the name of efficiency or sheer necessity, such as engine mapping.. but when it comes to control of the car itself, the driver must be in full control - even if there is electronic interpretation of the driver's inputs, it has to all be real-time.

Imo there is a difference between clever innovation within the regs, and sneeky innovation that attempts to subvert the spirit and basis of the regs. And a cornerstone of the current regs and format is that the driver must be in full and pro-active control. Anything that undermines that key principal is both unsporting and unwise in my view.

[red_slr]

Anyone notice a lot of front locking in FP1....