Official 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

Official 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

Author
Discussion

Evangelion

5,302 posts

126 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
I really don't get this 5 second penalty business. A small punishment for Hamilton, and nothing for Albon who got pushed down to 15th or whatever it was, too lazy to look it up).

Why not just make them swap positions?

37chevy

3,280 posts

104 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
Evangelion said:
I really don't get this 5 second penalty business. A small punishment for Hamilton, and nothing for Albon who got pushed down to 15th or whatever it was, too lazy to look it up).

Why not just make them swap positions?
because its unworkable.

what next, reinstate Charles into the race because Vettel hit him?

budgie smuggler

3,911 posts

107 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
jsf said:
They run lots of front camber and lots of toe out at the front.

That translates to a car that follows undulations in the track surface.

The cars are alive and need driving with high levels of concentration. You can calm all that down with a different setup but it would be slow.
Anyone see the onboard from Stroll? Not sure if it's the car or his driving style,, but the steering was all over the place

https://streamable.com/3ocxt

angrymoby

1,027 posts

126 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
ukaskew said:
I'll be honest, this has thrown me. Vettel had the best part of two car widths to play with as LeClerc was actually moving towards the centre of the track (as shown brilliantly in the overlayed screengrabs).

No driver is just going to move out of the way onto the marbles when the car alongside has significantly more than a full cars width to play with. If anything you might have expected LeClerc to put the squeeze on the car on the outside, but that's clearly not happening here.
This.

there is only one driver in those shots causing a collision ...the other just isn't avoiding one


Graveworm

2,799 posts

19 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
It's a big deal for Ferrari IMO. Letting them race is always good however crashing into one another whilst not really racing, does not sell advertising or cars, nor does a cloud over the team re "Enginegate".
With Merc not developing their car they had an opportunity, after the break, to chase second in the WDC and sew up third, as well as closing with some wins, to make everyone happy and optimistic for 2020.
It was going well, until the controversy, followed by the Interlagos shunt almost certainly pushing them to 4th and 5th, in the car which came second in the constructors and with Red Bull & Honda getting the attention at the end of the season.
They have to prioritise LeClerc over Vettel, for the last race and Vettel may even have to look for a tactical way to hamper Verstappen. This again, is not the image that a front running team wants.


Edited by Graveworm on Tuesday 19th November 12:10

HustleRussell

17,140 posts

108 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
budgie smuggler said:
Anyone see the onboard from Stroll? Not sure if it's the car or his driving style,, but the steering was all over the place

https://streamable.com/3ocxt
That is just Stroll. He has been shaking the wheel like that for as long as he's been in F1 and presumably before.

Can't knock him this weekend though, he was running ahead of Perez having started behind and on an arguably inferior strategy.

CoolHands

10,127 posts

143 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
HTP99 said:
From behind, clearly shows the racing line is to the right, look at the car in the background just getting to the corner:


that pic shows Vettel in the same approx place as the car in front so actually supports Vettel, not the opposite.

oyster

9,435 posts

196 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
angrymoby said:
ukaskew said:
I'll be honest, this has thrown me. Vettel had the best part of two car widths to play with as LeClerc was actually moving towards the centre of the track (as shown brilliantly in the overlayed screengrabs).

No driver is just going to move out of the way onto the marbles when the car alongside has significantly more than a full cars width to play with. If anything you might have expected LeClerc to put the squeeze on the car on the outside, but that's clearly not happening here.
This.

there is only one driver in those shots causing a collision ...the other just isn't avoiding one
Sort of.

If you're the Ferrari boss though, do you blame both drivers? The simple answer is yes.

angrymoby

1,027 posts

126 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
CoolHands said:
hat pic shows Vettel in the same approx place as the car in front so actually supports Vettel, not the opposite.
It also shows where Vettel is heading (clue: not where the other cars further up the road are going)

C70R

5,418 posts

52 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
angrymoby said:
ukaskew said:
I'll be honest, this has thrown me. Vettel had the best part of two car widths to play with as LeClerc was actually moving towards the centre of the track (as shown brilliantly in the overlayed screengrabs).

No driver is just going to move out of the way onto the marbles when the car alongside has significantly more than a full cars width to play with. If anything you might have expected LeClerc to put the squeeze on the car on the outside, but that's clearly not happening here.
This.

there is only one driver in those shots causing a collision ...the other just isn't avoiding one
This.

PH folk are doing the usual 'black and white' argumentative style of apportioning fault, rather than accepting that shades of grey exist.

Vettel shouldn't have been an arrogant knob and squeezed left.
It was within LeClerc's power to avoid contact and have another go at Vettel (and finish the race).

Neither of those statements contradicts the other. Action on the part of either driver would have avoided the collision.

Both drivers made errors of judgement on a race track which led to them not finishing.

The sequence of those errors, while important in apportioning ultimate blame, is largely irrelevant in the outcome.

OlonMusky

91 posts

2 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
How was Vettel not penalised for this idiotic, premeditated behaviour when both HAM and RIC were done (and HAM got 2 points) for something that could easily be seen as racing incident? Especially since Vettel is notorious for this sort of move? Does he have some compromising material on someone at the top, perhaps?

37chevy

3,280 posts

104 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
OlonMusky said:
How was Vettel not penalised for this idiotic, premeditated behaviour when both HAM and RIC were done (and HAM got 2 points) for something that could easily be seen as racing incident? Especially since Vettel is notorious for this sort of move? Does he have some compromising material on someone at the top, perhaps?
Because if he WAS penalised he’d have been banned for the last race. Can you imagine the fallout?

I would love to have been a fly on the wall in the stewards room...be interesting to see what Charles was told to say before the meeting...

OlonMusky

91 posts

2 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
37chevy said:
OlonMusky said:
How was Vettel not penalised for this idiotic, premeditated behaviour when both HAM and RIC were done (and HAM got 2 points) for something that could easily be seen as racing incident? Especially since Vettel is notorious for this sort of move? Does he have some compromising material on someone at the top, perhaps?
Because if he WAS penalised he’d have been banned for the last race. Can you imagine the fallout?
You mean he would have to bear the consequences? How crazy would that be? Can you imagine the outrage of millennials on twitter? Their parents told them they are the most precious of things and that they deserve a medal every time they take a breath and here's this thing where someone doesn't get a medal but gets a penalty and has to accept the consequences? That's borderline fascist isn't it?

babelfish

360 posts

155 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
37chevy said:
Because if he WAS penalised he’d have been banned for the last race. Can you imagine the fallout?
He's got 7 points at present, usual penalty is 2 or 3 points, 12 needed for a ban.

Therefore he would have been ok for this season but would have had to have been on best behaviour until next June!

ajprice

16,726 posts

144 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
babelfish said:
37chevy said:
Because if he WAS penalised he’d have been banned for the last race. Can you imagine the fallout?
He's got 7 points at present, usual penalty is 2 or 3 points, 12 needed for a ban.

Therefore he would have been ok for this season but would have had to have been on best behaviour until next June!
Penalty points are on a rolling 12 months count. He was on 9 points from (I think) Singapore until Japan, after the penalty for the spin at Monza. A serious incident penalty is 3 points. After Japan his score went down.

37chevy

3,280 posts

104 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
ajprice said:
babelfish said:
37chevy said:
Because if he WAS penalised he’d have been banned for the last race. Can you imagine the fallout?
He's got 7 points at present, usual penalty is 2 or 3 points, 12 needed for a ban.

Therefore he would have been ok for this season but would have had to have been on best behaviour until next June!
Penalty points are on a rolling 12 months count. He was on 9 points from (I think) Singapore until Japan, after the penalty for the spin at Monza. A serious incident penalty is 3 points. After Japan his score went down.
Ahh my bad thought he was on 11 or 9 so was up for a ban

SturdyHSV

6,720 posts

115 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
OlonMusky said:
You mean he would have to bear the consequences? How crazy would that be? Can you imagine the outrage of millennials on twitter? Their parents told them they are the most precious of things and that they deserve a medal every time they take a breath and here's this thing where someone doesn't get a medal but gets a penalty and has to accept the consequences? That's borderline fascist isn't it?
Mildly unrelated but you're actually getting all worked up about Gen Z.

Millenials / Gen Y are the generation before that (largely accepted as born 1981 - 1996ish). The generation typically labelled as snowflakes are 1997 onwards. Hope that helps.

oyster

9,435 posts

196 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
37chevy said:
ajprice said:
babelfish said:
37chevy said:
Because if he WAS penalised he’d have been banned for the last race. Can you imagine the fallout?
He's got 7 points at present, usual penalty is 2 or 3 points, 12 needed for a ban.

Therefore he would have been ok for this season but would have had to have been on best behaviour until next June!
Penalty points are on a rolling 12 months count. He was on 9 points from (I think) Singapore until Japan, after the penalty for the spin at Monza. A serious incident penalty is 3 points. After Japan his score went down.
Ahh my bad thought he was on 11 or 9 so was up for a ban
Did he steal sweets from you as a child?

dunc_sx

1,069 posts

145 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
On the Ferrari incident, this move 0:28s in is similar but never ended in an accident.

https://youtu.be/iJGthZJZ3Ho

Dunc.

37chevy

3,280 posts

104 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
oyster said:
Did he steal sweets from you as a child?
No, why?