Official 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Discussion
Wow stewards really had it in for Hamilton didn't they - penalty points on top of the particularly punishing (on this occasion due to proximities) 5 secs?
Thought Hamilton was pretty gracious in accepting blame from the off for something that could be argued from both sides - wondered if he didn't want on his conscience a rookie like albon copping the blame, given the roulette wheel of uncertainty the stewards often seem to use? Perhaps he made them angry by pre empting their game?
Doesn't exactly encourage drivers to be a little more acknowledging of their own errors does it, particularly contrasted with vettels attitude to smashing his team mate out.
Thought Hamilton was pretty gracious in accepting blame from the off for something that could be argued from both sides - wondered if he didn't want on his conscience a rookie like albon copping the blame, given the roulette wheel of uncertainty the stewards often seem to use? Perhaps he made them angry by pre empting their game?
Doesn't exactly encourage drivers to be a little more acknowledging of their own errors does it, particularly contrasted with vettels attitude to smashing his team mate out.
Teddy Lop said:
Wow stewards really had it in for Hamilton didn't they - penalty points on top of the particularly punishing (on this occasion due to proximities) 5 secs?
Thought Hamilton was pretty gracious in accepting blame from the off for something that could be argued from both sides - wondered if he didn't want on his conscience a rookie like albon copping the blame, given the roulette wheel of uncertainty the stewards often seem to use? Perhaps he made them angry by pre empting their game?
Doesn't exactly encourage drivers to be a little more acknowledging of their own errors does it, particularly contrasted with vettels attitude to smashing his team mate out.
I too posted (many pages ago) wondering if his conscience was a factor in his immediate accepting of blame. He must have considered that he could well lose his place on the podium and that, having nothing to lose personally, it might be better to try and speed things up and let Albon have his moment, and his champagne.Thought Hamilton was pretty gracious in accepting blame from the off for something that could be argued from both sides - wondered if he didn't want on his conscience a rookie like albon copping the blame, given the roulette wheel of uncertainty the stewards often seem to use? Perhaps he made them angry by pre empting their game?
Doesn't exactly encourage drivers to be a little more acknowledging of their own errors does it, particularly contrasted with vettels attitude to smashing his team mate out.
Wasn't to be sadly, the Stewards took too long. Not their fault, they had a fair amount to work through! But in future it might be a good idea to simply go with the decision of a driver that blames themselves, give them a lenient penalty for owning up and rush it through if it concerns a podium position.
Can you imagine a real world magistrates panel spending time deliberating and considering the evidence if the first thing the defendant said was "Yup, that was me - I did that. All my fault, guilty as hell". Within a few minutes it'd be rubber stamped, statutory fine and job done.
TheDeuce said:
Teddy Lop said:
Wow stewards really had it in for Hamilton didn't they - penalty points on top of the particularly punishing (on this occasion due to proximities) 5 secs?
Thought Hamilton was pretty gracious in accepting blame from the off for something that could be argued from both sides - wondered if he didn't want on his conscience a rookie like albon copping the blame, given the roulette wheel of uncertainty the stewards often seem to use? Perhaps he made them angry by pre empting their game?
Doesn't exactly encourage drivers to be a little more acknowledging of their own errors does it, particularly contrasted with vettels attitude to smashing his team mate out.
I too posted (many pages ago) wondering if his conscience was a factor in his immediate accepting of blame. He must have considered that he could well lose his place on the podium and that, having nothing to lose personally, it might be better to try and speed things up and let Albon have his moment, and his champagne.Thought Hamilton was pretty gracious in accepting blame from the off for something that could be argued from both sides - wondered if he didn't want on his conscience a rookie like albon copping the blame, given the roulette wheel of uncertainty the stewards often seem to use? Perhaps he made them angry by pre empting their game?
Doesn't exactly encourage drivers to be a little more acknowledging of their own errors does it, particularly contrasted with vettels attitude to smashing his team mate out.
Wasn't to be sadly, the Stewards took too long. Not their fault, they had a fair amount to work through! But in future it might be a good idea to simply go with the decision of a driver that blames themselves, give them a lenient penalty for owning up and rush it through if it concerns a podium position.
Can you imagine a real world magistrates panel spending time deliberating and considering the evidence if the first thing the defendant said was "Yup, that was me - I did that. All my fault, guilty as hell". Within a few minutes it'd be rubber stamped, statutory fine and job done.
Hamilton may have accepted blame for the tangle with Albon for a broader reason.
He may have thought he didn't need to pass in an unexpected place. Instead, he could have been more patient, knowing the car has the speed, and likely passed on a straight with DRS.
He may have thought he didn't need to pass in an unexpected place. Instead, he could have been more patient, knowing the car has the speed, and likely passed on a straight with DRS.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 20th November 01:53
Hamilton tried the pass on that corner because he knew he didn't have the straight line speed of the Redbulls. He had to try before losing more time once going pass the pit lane. The Mercedes couldn't even pass the Torro rosso on the straight if no DRS.
Interestingly, if you look at the speed traps on nearly every single tracks of the year, the Mercedes doesn't feature at all in the top 10.
Interlagos Mercedes were 18th and 20th out of 20.
USA: 15th and 17th.
Mexico: 11th and 14th.
It is important for Mercedes to start at the front as they are the slowest speed wise on straights of the top runners. It makes it a bit more difficult for them to overtake at the obvious places due to their speed difference not being that important despite the DRS.
Interestingly, if you look at the speed traps on nearly every single tracks of the year, the Mercedes doesn't feature at all in the top 10.
Interlagos Mercedes were 18th and 20th out of 20.
USA: 15th and 17th.
Mexico: 11th and 14th.
It is important for Mercedes to start at the front as they are the slowest speed wise on straights of the top runners. It makes it a bit more difficult for them to overtake at the obvious places due to their speed difference not being that important despite the DRS.
E34-3.2 said:
Hamilton tried the pass on that corner because he knew he didn't have the straight line speed of the Redbulls. He had to try before losing more time once going pass the pit lane. The Mercedes couldn't even pass the Torro rosso on the straight if no DRS.
Interestingly, if you look at the speed traps on nearly every single tracks of the year, the Mercedes doesn't feature at all in the top 10.
Interlagos Mercedes were 18th and 20th out of 20.
USA: 15th and 17th.
Mexico: 11th and 14th.
It is important for Mercedes to start at the front as they are the slowest speed wise on straights of the top runners. It makes it a bit more difficult for them to overtake at the obvious places due to their speed difference not being that important despite the DRS.
Tells you how good he is then to win the WDC.... Interestingly, if you look at the speed traps on nearly every single tracks of the year, the Mercedes doesn't feature at all in the top 10.
Interlagos Mercedes were 18th and 20th out of 20.
USA: 15th and 17th.
Mexico: 11th and 14th.
It is important for Mercedes to start at the front as they are the slowest speed wise on straights of the top runners. It makes it a bit more difficult for them to overtake at the obvious places due to their speed difference not being that important despite the DRS.
paulw123 said:
Yep his season long points scoring consistency has been superb. Even his total shocker of a weekend a few GP’s ago still gained him a few points over Bottas who crashed out.
German GP. One of his worse ever races and still pulls ahead.Knowing how to win a race is one thing. Knowing how to win a championship is another.
Wills2 said:
Tells you how good he is then to win the WDC....
Budapest was interesting for that reason. The Mercs couldn't get the pole as I reckon they had to focus so much on race pace. Even so, if you look at the race before Hamilton pitted for that amazing last stint. He just couldn't do anything on any of the straights despite showing a good pace and the only time he properly attacked was on a series of corners. All year around that Mercedes has been lacking pure speed and making that deficit on corners. That means their drivers had to make the difference on driving skills more than on relying on straights to overtake.
Wills2 said:
Tells you how good he is then to win the WDC....
Or how badly Ferrari have failed to capitalise on the fact that Mercedes can't really overtake. Just look at the number of races where Ferrari have got poll and Mercedes have won either without passing on track or by passing with an enormous tyre differential. Obviously a part of that is the Mercedes looking after its tyres better and hence giving them more flexibility on strategy; but I'd say that makes up less than half of such races. Edited by kambites on Wednesday 20th November 09:06
E34-3.2 said:
Hamilton tried the pass on that corner because he knew he didn't have the straight line speed of the Redbulls. He had to try before losing more time once going pass the pit lane. The Mercedes couldn't even pass the Torro rosso on the straight if no DRS.
Interestingly, if you look at the speed traps on nearly every single tracks of the year, the Mercedes doesn't feature at all in the top 10.
Interlagos Mercedes were 18th and 20th out of 20.
USA: 15th and 17th.
Mexico: 11th and 14th.
It is important for Mercedes to start at the front as they are the slowest speed wise on straights of the top runners. It makes it a bit more difficult for them to overtake at the obvious places due to their speed difference not being that important despite the DRS.
This is the same as the Red Bull's a full years back right? High downforce, great in the corners, and lead from the front... Only post Newey they seem to have adopted a slight lower downforce setup.Interestingly, if you look at the speed traps on nearly every single tracks of the year, the Mercedes doesn't feature at all in the top 10.
Interlagos Mercedes were 18th and 20th out of 20.
USA: 15th and 17th.
Mexico: 11th and 14th.
It is important for Mercedes to start at the front as they are the slowest speed wise on straights of the top runners. It makes it a bit more difficult for them to overtake at the obvious places due to their speed difference not being that important despite the DRS.
Mercedes even have the high rake like the Red Bulls of then.
RemarkLima said:
E34-3.2 said:
Hamilton tried the pass on that corner because he knew he didn't have the straight line speed of the Redbulls. He had to try before losing more time once going pass the pit lane. The Mercedes couldn't even pass the Torro rosso on the straight if no DRS.
Interestingly, if you look at the speed traps on nearly every single tracks of the year, the Mercedes doesn't feature at all in the top 10.
Interlagos Mercedes were 18th and 20th out of 20.
USA: 15th and 17th.
Mexico: 11th and 14th.
It is important for Mercedes to start at the front as they are the slowest speed wise on straights of the top runners. It makes it a bit more difficult for them to overtake at the obvious places due to their speed difference not being that important despite the DRS.
This is the same as the Red Bull's a full years back right? High downforce, great in the corners, and lead from the front... Only post Newey they seem to have adopted a slight lower downforce setup.Interestingly, if you look at the speed traps on nearly every single tracks of the year, the Mercedes doesn't feature at all in the top 10.
Interlagos Mercedes were 18th and 20th out of 20.
USA: 15th and 17th.
Mexico: 11th and 14th.
It is important for Mercedes to start at the front as they are the slowest speed wise on straights of the top runners. It makes it a bit more difficult for them to overtake at the obvious places due to their speed difference not being that important despite the DRS.
Mercedes even have the high rake like the Red Bulls of then.
Derek Smith said:
I wondered if Merc had turned down Hamilton's engine after the Bottas failure. They would not want that to happen twice in the same race. I was watching on live timing to see if there was a drop in lap times, but with everyone being so close together, it was impossible to say. That is, right up until the drag to the line.
The drag up the line Ham was 10/20kph down, I think I posted the timing earlier in the thread.There’s the drag up the hill ham vs Gasly Telemetry.
https://twitter.com/deesee15723775/status/11961714...
Edited by Deesee on Wednesday 20th November 16:26
RemarkLima said:
This is the same as the Red Bull's a full years back right? High downforce, great in the corners, and lead from the front... Only post Newey they seem to have adopted a slight lower downforce setup.
Mercedes even have the high rake like the Red Bulls of then.
There was an article about the fact Mercedes are the only ones using a basically zero rake philosophy compared to everyone else following Red Bull's high rake philosophy, have MB now changed? That would apparently be a major change to the whole car to make such a shift?Mercedes even have the high rake like the Red Bulls of then.
Also, as far as I'm aware Mr Newey still works at RB since the days of them leading from the front..
EDIT:
This article https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47838557
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