What would the 0-60 etc be of an F1 car?
Discussion
Another interesting question is how fast an F1 car could be if they weren't constantly held back by the regulations. For example, the fabulous V10s ran those horrible grooved tyres, and obviously current cars have the engines heavily limited. Most innovations like ground effect and fans have been banned long ago. Bring all that back in, and allow a bit more aero in front of the wheels and forced induction on the V10s, then you'd still have a car that looked like an F1 car, but I suspect lap times would be perhaps 20-30 seconds faster than they are now. 
Driving a car like that would be monumentally physical though; I don't know whether drivers could last a full race.
Driving a car like that would be monumentally physical though; I don't know whether drivers could last a full race.Monkeylegend said:
PSB1 said:
'Google is your friend', 'a bit of googling' - hardly helpful though, if the OP actually wants to start a discussion with fellow enthusiasts, ffs?
He's started a discussion and he is welcome to join in at any time.NotNormal said:
TheDeuce said:
...
As said above however, on circuit, which by default includes corners, nothing on the planet is going to compare to an F1 car....
AhemAs said above however, on circuit, which by default includes corners, nothing on the planet is going to compare to an F1 car....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_919_Hybrid
NotNormal said:
TheDeuce said:
...
As said above however, on circuit, which by default includes corners, nothing on the planet is going to compare to an F1 car....
AhemAs said above however, on circuit, which by default includes corners, nothing on the planet is going to compare to an F1 car....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_919_Hybrid
PSB1 said:
'Google is your friend', 'a bit of googling' - hardly helpful though, if the OP actually wants to start a discussion with fellow enthusiasts, ffs?
Thanks. That’s exactly the reason I’m on PH. Of course I know about google, I use it every day but here I can get opinions, data, facts and more from people who are actually interested in the topic and have the knowledge I crave. RobM77 said:
Another interesting question is how fast an F1 car could be if they weren't constantly held back by the regulations. For example, the fabulous V10s ran those horrible grooved tyres, and obviously current cars have the engines heavily limited. Most innovations like ground effect and fans have been banned long ago. Bring all that back in, and allow a bit more aero in front of the wheels and forced induction on the V10s, then you'd still have a car that looked like an F1 car, but I suspect lap times would be perhaps 20-30 seconds faster than they are now. Driving a car like that would be monumentally physical though; I don't know whether drivers could last a full race.
I am sure I read an interview with Patrick Head that asked that very question. The answer was something along the lines of, if the regulations were still as they were at the end of 1992, fully active suspension, etc, then the Silverstone Grand Prix circuit of the time, would now be 100% flat out. Driving a car like that would be monumentally physical though; I don't know whether drivers could last a full race.
But, crucially, a driver wouldn't be able to cope with it.
A car magazine, I think it was Performance Car but, since the did 0-100-0, it may well have been Car, which liked that stat. I don't remember - anyway, would have been mid to late '90s, they did measure a bunch of performance cars including an F1 car to show the differences.
If I recall, it also had a rally car and the fastest road car in the test was an Esprit V8.
0 - 60, the F1 car was quicker than everything else but not quite in a different league. It was, if I recall, somewhere between 2.7 and 3.4 seconds maybe. By 100mph, it was way out on its own. 0 - 100 - 0, with braking involved, it was even more removed from everything else. I'm sure they measured 0 - 30 but can't remember anything interesting about that result.
If that test can be found it will give you all the answers you need... except roughly 20 years out of date.
I also recall McLaren, or at least some or other magazine, claiming that the McLaren F1 road car accelerates faster than a formula 1 car above 150mph, due to the enormous drag an F1 car has to overcome as well as the McLaren F1's (this is getting confusing) ridiculous pace.
EDIT: Looks like it was Autocar. If you can find some of their old tests (I can't) there may be an F1 car in them and the full set of results.
If I recall, it also had a rally car and the fastest road car in the test was an Esprit V8.
0 - 60, the F1 car was quicker than everything else but not quite in a different league. It was, if I recall, somewhere between 2.7 and 3.4 seconds maybe. By 100mph, it was way out on its own. 0 - 100 - 0, with braking involved, it was even more removed from everything else. I'm sure they measured 0 - 30 but can't remember anything interesting about that result.
If that test can be found it will give you all the answers you need... except roughly 20 years out of date.
I also recall McLaren, or at least some or other magazine, claiming that the McLaren F1 road car accelerates faster than a formula 1 car above 150mph, due to the enormous drag an F1 car has to overcome as well as the McLaren F1's (this is getting confusing) ridiculous pace.
EDIT: Looks like it was Autocar. If you can find some of their old tests (I can't) there may be an F1 car in them and the full set of results.
Edited by kiseca on Friday 15th November 16:34
RobM77 said:
Silverstone GP lap times
Golf R: I genuinely don't know, but I'd guess at somewhere in the low 2min40s.
My Lotus 2-Eleven was 2min27 in my hands, so that's roughly what most fast trackday specials will do.
McLaren Senna 2min09 (Chris Harris)
Moto GP: 1min58 (Marquez lap record)
Formula Renault 1:55 (210bhp, 500kg, mild downforce). I owned one of these for a few years, albeit reigned back for UK club racing.
Formula 1 lap record: 1:25.1
So basically the difference between a Golf R and a McLaren Senna is about 30 seconds per lap, and the difference between a McLaren Senna and an F1 car is 45 seconds.
Matt Neal managed 2:31 in a Civic Type-RGolf R: I genuinely don't know, but I'd guess at somewhere in the low 2min40s.
My Lotus 2-Eleven was 2min27 in my hands, so that's roughly what most fast trackday specials will do.
McLaren Senna 2min09 (Chris Harris)
Moto GP: 1min58 (Marquez lap record)
Formula Renault 1:55 (210bhp, 500kg, mild downforce). I owned one of these for a few years, albeit reigned back for UK club racing.
Formula 1 lap record: 1:25.1
So basically the difference between a Golf R and a McLaren Senna is about 30 seconds per lap, and the difference between a McLaren Senna and an F1 car is 45 seconds.
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/general/new-silve...
thegreenhell said:
RobM77 said:
Silverstone GP lap times
Golf R: I genuinely don't know, but I'd guess at somewhere in the low 2min40s.
My Lotus 2-Eleven was 2min27 in my hands, so that's roughly what most fast trackday specials will do.
McLaren Senna 2min09 (Chris Harris)
Moto GP: 1min58 (Marquez lap record)
Formula Renault 1:55 (210bhp, 500kg, mild downforce). I owned one of these for a few years, albeit reigned back for UK club racing.
Formula 1 lap record: 1:25.1
So basically the difference between a Golf R and a McLaren Senna is about 30 seconds per lap, and the difference between a McLaren Senna and an F1 car is 45 seconds.
Matt Neal managed 2:31 in a Civic Type-RGolf R: I genuinely don't know, but I'd guess at somewhere in the low 2min40s.
My Lotus 2-Eleven was 2min27 in my hands, so that's roughly what most fast trackday specials will do.
McLaren Senna 2min09 (Chris Harris)
Moto GP: 1min58 (Marquez lap record)
Formula Renault 1:55 (210bhp, 500kg, mild downforce). I owned one of these for a few years, albeit reigned back for UK club racing.
Formula 1 lap record: 1:25.1
So basically the difference between a Golf R and a McLaren Senna is about 30 seconds per lap, and the difference between a McLaren Senna and an F1 car is 45 seconds.
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/general/new-silve...
Yes, I know; that's what I based my guess at a Golf R time on. ETA: perhaps in retrospect I was a bit harsh on the Golf, although the ring time is a fair bit slower, around other tracks it seems very close between them. Nevertheless, the message here is that an F1 car is just massively faster than any road car over a lap of a track.Edited by RobM77 on Friday 15th November 16:47
PSB1 said:
'Google is your friend', 'a bit of googling' - hardly helpful though, if the OP actually wants to start a discussion with fellow enthusiasts, ffs?
If someone asks a series of questions that are easily answered by a couple of minutes research how is that wanting to start a discussion? If someone wants a discussion they should phrase it like that. Lot easier for everyone that way.Megaflow said:
I am sure I read an interview with Patrick Head that asked that very question. The answer was something along the lines of, if the regulations were still as they were at the end of 1992, fully active suspension, etc, then the Silverstone Grand Prix circuit of the time, would now be 100% flat out.
But, crucially, a driver wouldn't be able to cope with it.
Adrian Newey designed this virtual prototype 'regs free' F1 car for the game: GT5But, crucially, a driver wouldn't be able to cope with it.
The above is a model of the virtual car. It is estimated via simulator runs that it would hit 300mph, be capable of 8g lateral force and could shave 20 seconds at Suzuka.
The driver would be very unlikely to complete such a lap though. Repeat 8g coming one direction then the other would be at best disorienting in the extreme and at worse probably cause some internal trauma before very long. The risk of blackout would also be a concern.
It's sometimes theorised that one day F1 cars will be driven autonomously.. Whilst that might sound soulless, it would at least make cars such as this practical and possible. Remove the human and you remove concerns about g-force along with general safety issues. If there is an upside to a future automated sport, it would be simply unbelievable speed and performance from the machines themselves.
TheDeuce said:
Adrian Newey designed this virtual prototype 'regs free' F1 car for the game: GT5
The above is a model of the virtual car. It is estimated via simulator runs that it would hit 300mph, be capable of 8g lateral force and could shave 20 seconds at Suzuka.
The driver would be very unlikely to complete such a lap though. Repeat 8g coming one direction then the other would be at best disorienting in the extreme and at worse probably cause some internal trauma before very long. The risk of blackout would also be a concern.
It's sometimes theorised that one day F1 cars will be driven autonomously.. Whilst that might sound soulless, it would at least make cars such as this practical and possible. Remove the human and you remove concerns about g-force along with general safety issues. If there is an upside to a future automated sport, it would be simply unbelievable speed and performance from the machines themselves.
Though two of the biggest aerodynamic benefits of that design go completely against not only the rules but the spirit of F1/Gran Prix racing, i.e. open wheeled and open cockpit.The above is a model of the virtual car. It is estimated via simulator runs that it would hit 300mph, be capable of 8g lateral force and could shave 20 seconds at Suzuka.
The driver would be very unlikely to complete such a lap though. Repeat 8g coming one direction then the other would be at best disorienting in the extreme and at worse probably cause some internal trauma before very long. The risk of blackout would also be a concern.
It's sometimes theorised that one day F1 cars will be driven autonomously.. Whilst that might sound soulless, it would at least make cars such as this practical and possible. Remove the human and you remove concerns about g-force along with general safety issues. If there is an upside to a future automated sport, it would be simply unbelievable speed and performance from the machines themselves.
It's like saying 'I'm going to make the fastest ever MotoGP bike', and giving it four wheels.
LimaDelta said:
Though two of the biggest aerodynamic benefits of that design go completely against not only the rules but the spirit of F1/Gran Prix racing, i.e. open wheeled and open cockpit.
It's like saying 'I'm going to make the fastest ever MotoGP bike', and giving it four wheels.
It's true but what else can I approximate it to? It looks like the next evolution of F1 would/could be if the regs weren't a factor.It's like saying 'I'm going to make the fastest ever MotoGP bike', and giving it four wheels.
Whatever it is, it's basically a wet dream in the single seater race car world. I would also argue the wheels are open by way of being outside the main bodywork of the car - that's a little tenuous though I know..
This is very old now and I wish they would repeat the exercise with current cars, but it still perfectly illustrates that it is pointless comparing F1 cars with non-F1 cars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XdztxguJEw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XdztxguJEw
An f1 car is designed to go round a track faster than anything else on earth. Which they always have done.
If an f1 car was supposed to go from 0-60 and stop or 0-100 and stop, it would be designed to do so. Probably 8 wheels and 8 wheel drive with a massively complex diff with CVT and would do it in such an insane time that nothing else would even come close to thinking about comparing.
They do a job. The expertise, experience, technology and budget ensures they do it better than anything else can hope. And that's after the governing bodies do everything they can to restrict them to make sure a human can actually survive.
If an f1 car was supposed to go from 0-60 and stop or 0-100 and stop, it would be designed to do so. Probably 8 wheels and 8 wheel drive with a massively complex diff with CVT and would do it in such an insane time that nothing else would even come close to thinking about comparing.
They do a job. The expertise, experience, technology and budget ensures they do it better than anything else can hope. And that's after the governing bodies do everything they can to restrict them to make sure a human can actually survive.
Edited by mattikake on Saturday 16th November 03:05
kiseca said:
I also recall McLaren, or at least some or other magazine, claiming that the McLaren F1 road car accelerates faster than a formula 1 car above 150mph, due to the enormous drag an F1 car has to overcome as well as the McLaren F1's (this is getting confusing) ridiculous pace.
Rubbish. At all speeds below 200 mph a McLaren F1 gets destroyed by an F1 car. The McLaren is geared for 230-240 mph top speeds, so it could pass an F1 car there, but it'll never reach even 200 mph on most tracks. The F1 car however gets up to 200 mph quite easily.Edited by kiseca on Friday 15th November 16:34
LimaDelta said:
Though two of the biggest aerodynamic benefits of that design go completely against not only the rules but the spirit of F1/Gran Prix racing, i.e. open wheeled and open cockpit.
Grand Prix and F1 cars were allowed to be open wheeled but it hasn't always been compulsory. Pre-war Mercedes and Auto Union and 1950s Mercedes and Vanwall streamliners for example.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff