Zandvoort 2020
Discussion
TheDeuce said:
It's going to be pretty special isn't it! A gp at a banked circuit again 
and a properly banked circuit at that.
Gonna throw up a few surprises when the cars run that corner for the first time next year I think - with some teams stumbling on the perfect setup and others struggling to make it work all weekend.
FP1 might be the session for the viewer!! and a properly banked circuit at that.Gonna throw up a few surprises when the cars run that corner for the first time next year I think - with some teams stumbling on the perfect setup and others struggling to make it work all weekend.
Deesee said:
Upside down airplane I can understand ie an aero devise clearing though air propelled by propeller or a jet. However having enough downforce /upforce while challenging gravity + traction for the tyres (as in the only point of forward movement), whilst upside down and not accelerating.. i don’t..
Look at it like this, if the F1 car is driven fast enough and has enough aero to drive along in a straight line, upside down, on the ceiling it will but if the driver unlocks his harness he will fall out at 9.81 m/s squared and land on his head.Make sense now?
Oilchange said:
Deesee said:
Upside down airplane I can understand ie an aero devise clearing though air propelled by propeller or a jet. However having enough downforce /upforce while challenging gravity + traction for the tyres (as in the only point of forward movement), whilst upside down and not accelerating.. i don’t..
Look at it like this, if the F1 car is driven fast enough and has enough aero to drive along in a straight line, upside down, on the ceiling it will but if the driver unlocks his harness he will fall out at 9.81 m/s squared and land on his head.Make sense now?
Deesee said:
Upside down airplane I can understand ie an aero devise clearing though air propelled by propeller or a jet. However having enough downforce /upforce while challenging gravity + traction for the tyres (as in the only point of forward movement), whilst upside down and not accelerating.. i don’t..
It's exactly the same, it's just that you subtract 1g rather than adding it. Think of an aeroplane flying through a tunnel. If you put wheels on the top, or fly upside down, you can run those wheels along the ceiling. Keep pulling up and you could compress the suspension on those wheels. Reach the point where you're compressing the suspension the same amount that they'd be compressed when parked on the ground, and you're generating twice as much lift as the aircrafts weight, 1 weights worth giving the lift to keep you off the ground, and the second weights worth pushing you in to the ceiling. Without the tunnel you'd be climbing at 2g.
At that point you're going to get as much traction on the wheels as you'd have if you were parked on the ground. So if you powered the wheels you could drive along the ceiling and not need the propeller or jet, just the same as if you were driving along the road (albeit with a lot more drag)
Edited by RizzoTheRat on Wednesday 4th December 14:17
RizzoTheRat said:
(albeit with a lot more drag)
Drag is the unknown variable on a car that is designed to be ‘grounded’ when upside down.Natural bumps on the surface of the ceiling would also not help
And perhaps it may produce 2/3x it’s weight upside down (rather than 5/6 g lateral at the real high speed corners)., the human body can only withstand being inverted for too long, let alone crucial fluids within the car.
I’ve never seen anything or spoken to anyone who states this is anything but highly theoretical, and there guesstimates or a hypothesis range from 90 mph to 180 mph on a perfect surface (which would not happen).
Perhaps someone will build an inverted rolling road and sort this out eh!
Oh and if anyone is interested get in the back seat of you car, put your head where your feet would be, then get someone to drive you at 90mph (let alone 180mph), you’ll feel pretty giddy, very quickly..
Anyway back on topic, the banked corners the cars will be fine..(as that’s what we were talking about).. because the cars can drive upside down, right
Deesee said:
TheDeuce said:
It's going to be pretty special isn't it! A gp at a banked circuit again and a properly banked circuit at that.
Gonna throw up a few surprises when the cars run that corner for the first time next year I think - with some teams stumbling on the perfect setup and others struggling to make it work all weekend.
FP1 might be the session for the viewer!! and a properly banked circuit at that.Gonna throw up a few surprises when the cars run that corner for the first time next year I think - with some teams stumbling on the perfect setup and others struggling to make it work all weekend.
And Vietnam to a lesser extent. Most first time GP circuits are entertaining just because the teams and drivers aren't familiar with them..
TheDeuce said:
Yes indeed. I'm really looking forward to it now this season has ended.
And Vietnam to a lesser extent. Most first time GP circuits are entertaining just because the teams and drivers aren't familiar with them..
Yes indeed, I saw a video of Vietnam, it looks quite the challenge for the teams, with the huge long straights, the Esses/Maggots-Becketts section, as well as the street Monaco section. It will be quite the balance, I think there will be lots of pinch points, action zones. And Vietnam to a lesser extent. Most first time GP circuits are entertaining just because the teams and drivers aren't familiar with them..
Gravity is only a theory...
So has anyone here actually got tickets?
If anyone fancies a lap of the course it's €20 for a 12km race in March
https://www.zandvoortcircuitrun.nl/
So has anyone here actually got tickets?
If anyone fancies a lap of the course it's €20 for a 12km race in March
https://www.zandvoortcircuitrun.nl/
Deesee said:
Oilchange said:
Deesee said:
Upside down airplane I can understand ie an aero devise clearing though air propelled by propeller or a jet. However having enough downforce /upforce while challenging gravity + traction for the tyres (as in the only point of forward movement), whilst upside down and not accelerating.. i don’t..
Look at it like this, if the F1 car is driven fast enough and has enough aero to drive along in a straight line, upside down, on the ceiling it will but if the driver unlocks his harness he will fall out at 9.81 m/s squared and land on his head.Make sense now?
DeltonaS said:
Three banked corners?When I first heard Zandvoort was coming, I was a little underwhelmed. Now we have... 3 banked corners!? I'm starting to think this will become a highly entertaining oddity on the F1 calendar. Bring it on
Marc Priestley on the banked corners (15:55 in): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBnUz21a0aA
Seems very positive about it
Seems very positive about it
MGJ2 said:
Hard to appreciate the steepness from above looking down but it's definitely steep!Can't wait for the on board footage which I'm sure we'll see before the season begins (track testing) where the world will tilt as the car enters that corner
Good job on getting it done so quickly. Literally moving a mountain...
How will the organizers cope with the threat of sand being blown on the track ?
The circuit is on the shore, so mostly windy, and in the dunes, lots of very fine sand around.
Regarding the "too much downforce" problems in banked turns :
Could the DRS be activated for these passages ? I am not very familiar how it works but it does reduce downforce ?
The circuit is on the shore, so mostly windy, and in the dunes, lots of very fine sand around.
Regarding the "too much downforce" problems in banked turns :
Could the DRS be activated for these passages ? I am not very familiar how it works but it does reduce downforce ?
jsf said:
Zandvoort is a nightmare for sand and salt when it rains. It gets everywhere in the car.
I would expect the sand is a similar issue at the middle east circuits, but i bet salt water getting in the car will be a new one for them.
Salt water for cars equals an early death... But an F1 car only lives for one weekend at a time so I don't think it's an issue. It'll be dismantled and retained components cleaned for the next use.I would expect the sand is a similar issue at the middle east circuits, but i bet salt water getting in the car will be a new one for them.
The salt and sand will impact the tyre life however, although not as much as this circuit by it's very nature surely will. To be honest, pretty much everything about zandvoort is going to be an F1 learning curve which is why I can't wait to see it unfold
TheDeuce said:
jsf said:
Zandvoort is a nightmare for sand and salt when it rains. It gets everywhere in the car.
I would expect the sand is a similar issue at the middle east circuits, but i bet salt water getting in the car will be a new one for them.
Salt water for cars equals an early death... But an F1 car only lives for one weekend at a time so I don't think it's an issue. It'll be dismantled and retained components cleaned for the next use.I would expect the sand is a similar issue at the middle east circuits, but i bet salt water getting in the car will be a new one for them.
C Lee Farquar said:
TheDeuce said:
jsf said:
Zandvoort is a nightmare for sand and salt when it rains. It gets everywhere in the car.
I would expect the sand is a similar issue at the middle east circuits, but i bet salt water getting in the car will be a new one for them.
Salt water for cars equals an early death... But an F1 car only lives for one weekend at a time so I don't think it's an issue. It'll be dismantled and retained components cleaned for the next use.I would expect the sand is a similar issue at the middle east circuits, but i bet salt water getting in the car will be a new one for them.
I imagine on hot and high flow areas it'll also build up a bit but that's the same for everyone so not really a factor.
I'll wait JSF to expand and if I'm wrong, great - I'll learn something new.
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