The Official F1 2021 silly season *contains speculation*

[spunkytherabbit]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Look everyone needs to get something straight about Albon. He was out of the preogram and away to Formula E before Riciardo spoiled the party and left for renault.

He was never highly rated. He took his chances in the Toro Rosso and got lucky, bagging a seat in a front running car he didn’t have the skill for.

I might be wrong, but as far as I’m aware he has never won a championship in any lower formula.

Nice kid, but clearly not very talented and in no way deserving of the second best car in the grid.

So RBR must go for quantity over quality hoping they get lucky by default at some point? Do all young driver programmes operate the same?

I have no idea how a driver finds their way into these programmes so any insight would be interesting if anyone has any.

[geeks]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Look everyone needs to get something straight about Albon. He was out of the preogram and away to Formula E before Riciardo spoiled the party and left for renault.

He was never highly rated. He took his chances in the Toro Rosso and got lucky, bagging a seat in a front running car he didn’t have the skill for.

I might be wrong, but as far as I’m aware he has never won a championship in any lower formula.

Nice kid, but clearly not very talented and in no way deserving of the second best car in the grid.

He's come close a few times, runner up in GP3, where he could have won were it not for some bad luck, and 3rd in GP2 beaten only by Norris and Russel in 2018. To be clear he is no slouch he was being ejected from the RB drivers program in 2012 and then bought back in when he signed for Toro Rosso. I think they put him in the Snr team too early but RB have an ultimate love of torpedoing their own ambitions and programs with driver swap outs and sink or swim when you are clearly not ready for it. F1 is harsh and sometimes that's correct, but when 1/5 of the grid fields your drivers you should really be more considered in the approach.

[kiseca]

geeks said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Look everyone needs to get something straight about Albon. He was out of the preogram and away to Formula E before Riciardo spoiled the party and left for renault.

He was never highly rated. He took his chances in the Toro Rosso and got lucky, bagging a seat in a front running car he didn’t have the skill for.

I might be wrong, but as far as I’m aware he has never won a championship in any lower formula.

Nice kid, but clearly not very talented and in no way deserving of the second best car in the grid.

He's come close a few times, runner up in GP3, where he could have won were it not for some bad luck, and 3rd in GP2 beaten only by Norris and Russel in 2018. To be clear he is no slouch he was being ejected from the RB drivers program in 2012 and then bought back in when he signed for Toro Rosso. I think they put him in the Snr team too early but RB have an ultimate love of torpedoing their own ambitions and programs with driver swap outs and sink or swim when you are clearly not ready for it. F1 is harsh and sometimes that's correct, but when 1/5 of the grid fields your drivers you should really be more considered in the approach.

He also was doing quite well for himself when he first got that Red Bull seat last season. I didn't see much opposition to him keeping that seat going into 2020 back then. He's not just a crap driver who's never impressed. He's a driver who got a good start in his current seat and has fallen off the rails for whatever reason. Or maybe last season was his brief moment to perform at a peak he'll never get to again.

[Mr_Thyroid]

He's doing roughly as well, if not slightly better, than Gasly last year. And Gasly looks like a superstar now.

[paulguitar]

Mr_Thyroid said:

And Gasly looks like a superstar now.

Not really. He had a win, everyone loved it, but let's not pretend it wasn't mostly down to unusual circumstances.

[TheDeuce]

Mr_Thyroid said:

He's doing roughly as well, if not slightly better, than Gasly last year. And Gasly looks like a superstar now.

In actual race performance vs Max, my recollection is that Gasly was definitely worse than Albon. In a few races he had no issues at all and was simply miles back - literally, I think Max lapped him at least once.

The Netflix docu covered it I recall, and it was quite alarming how much he struggled to find pace deserving of the car. Albon at least is close each lap, albeit still not close enough.

[Deesee]

Gasly race pace is up there with the best this season.

It’s been noticed, he may get a very very good drive in 2022/2023..

[Mr_Thyroid]

paulguitar said:

Not really. He had a win, everyone loved it, but let's not pretend it wasn't mostly down to unusual circumstances.

I wasn't just referring to Monza. There's been several other races where he's stood out.

[SmoothCriminal]

What issue did Albon have in Portugal to his car to be lapped by Max?

How is 6/8 tenths slower a lap close in anyone's standards. Someone has

[LaurasOtherHalf]

TheDeuce said:

Mr_Thyroid said:

He's doing roughly as well, if not slightly better, than Gasly last year. And Gasly looks like a superstar now.

In actual race performance vs Max, my recollection is that Gasly was definitely worse than Albon. In a few races he had no issues at all and was simply miles back - literally, I think Max lapped him at least once.

The Netflix docu covered it I recall, and it was quite alarming how much he struggled to find pace deserving of the car. Albon at least is close each lap, albeit still not close enough.

You can try and remember things any way you want, the proof is there in the history books.

Albon in 12 races for Red Bull 2020 has scored 64 points
Gasley in his first 12 races for Red Bull 2019 scored 61 points

So Albon is better than Gasly? Only problem is in 2020 Albon is in comfortably the second best car on the grid, by a country mile.

In 2019 Gasly was in the third best car on the grid behind a fine performing Ferrari duo who were scoring podiums and victories. In 2020, all things considered a Red Bull should finish 3rd and 4th in every race, 2019 they should have been 5th and 6th.

Compare the same results with team mates in Toro Rosso/Alpha Touri

2019 first 12 races
Albon 16 points
Kvyat 27 points

2020
Gasly 63 points
Kvyat 14 points

I'm trying to compare things on a purely factual base, all of the above is there for everyone to see. Gasly in Red Bull was on average 0.529 seconds a lap slower than Verstappen, not exactly great. It is however less than Albon who's a few hundredths slower still.

By all means have your favourites, I see why people like Albon as he comes across as a nice enough lad and speaks like he went to public school.

But to say he's quicker than Gasly? The stats don't back it up (unless it's his mum cooking the books again).

[TheDeuce]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

TheDeuce said:

Mr_Thyroid said:

He's doing roughly as well, if not slightly better, than Gasly last year. And Gasly looks like a superstar now.

In actual race performance vs Max, my recollection is that Gasly was definitely worse than Albon. In a few races he had no issues at all and was simply miles back - literally, I think Max lapped him at least once.

The Netflix docu covered it I recall, and it was quite alarming how much he struggled to find pace deserving of the car. Albon at least is close each lap, albeit still not close enough.

You can try and remember things any way you want, the proof is there in the history books.

Albon in 12 races for Red Bull 2020 has scored 64 points
Gasley in his first 12 races for Red Bull 2019 scored 61 points

So Albon is better than Gasly? Only problem is in 2020 Albon is in comfortably the second best car on the grid, by a country mile.

In 2019 Gasly was in the third best car on the grid behind a fine performing Ferrari duo who were scoring podiums and victories. In 2020, all things considered a Red Bull should finish 3rd and 4th in every race, 2019 they should have been 5th and 6th.

Compare the same results with team mates in Toro Rosso/Alpha Touri

2019 first 12 races
Albon 16 points
Kvyat 27 points

2020
Gasly 63 points
Kvyat 14 points

I'm trying to compare things on a purely factual base, all of the above is there for everyone to see. Gasly in Red Bull was on average 0.529 seconds a lap slower than Verstappen, not exactly great. It is however less than Albon who's a few hundredths slower still.

By all means have your favourites, I see why people like Albon as he comes across as a nice enough lad and speaks like he went to public school.

But to say he's quicker than Gasly? The stats don't back it up (unless it's his mum cooking the books again).

It's ok, I have no favourite, I think they're both somewhat short of deserving a top drive tbh, and now both have proven as much...

I hadn't looked at the stats to be honest, I just recall being amazed at how slow Gasly was. I also recall when Albon took over in the second half of last year and immediately performed better. At the time, the mood on these forums was that Albon was an improvement!

I suppose the interesting thing is we're able to compare two 'no2' drivers in the same car from 2019. What are the relative stats Gasly v Albon in that car, that season?

[HustleRussell]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

By all means have your favourites, I see why people like Albon as he comes across as a nice enough lad and speaks like he went to public school.

But to say he's quicker than Gasly? The stats don't back it up (unless it's his mum cooking the books again).

By all means have your favourite, but don’t inflict your classist preconceptions on others.

Your dig at his Mum is also out of place.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

TheDeuce said:

It's ok, I have no favourite, I think they're both somewhat short of deserving a top drive tbh, and now both have proven as much...

I hadn't looked at the stats to be honest, I just recall being amazed at how slow Gasly was. I also recall when Albon took over in the second half of last year and immediately performed better. At the time, the mood on these forums was that Albon was an improvement!

I suppose the interesting thing is we're able to compare two 'no2' drivers in the same car from 2019. What are the relative stats Gasly v Albon in that car, that season?

Do your own bloody research!



As a car develops through the season I thought it unfair to compare in that respect, plus it's not an even spread of races. Gasley had one retirement and two none point scores in his time, Albon had only one. Both had highest place 4th, Albon had more 5th and 6th place finishes but by the time he was scoring these, Ferrari had lost their mysterious high speed engines.

Gasly finished the year above Albon in the championship.

[Mr_Thyroid]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

You can try and remember things any way you want, the proof is there in the history books.

Fair doos, Gasly was closer in quali than I remember and he may have been better than I thought in the races too. I remember him being pretty inert in the races, losing out at the start and then being unable to move back up. Albon on the other seemed to show some fight from his first outing at Spa (although I suppose it's easier to pass people when an engine penalty means starting at the back).....

[LaurasOtherHalf]

I'm not having a go, it's all good banter Plus, cards on the table I really, really like Gasly-both as a driver and a person (but I also liked Kvyat, I do like to support an underdog!).

I'm also rare in that I really like Christian Horner, he's fantastic company and the perfect foil to the other team leaders. But! But, there's something suss going on with Gasly and Red Bull.

I don't expect any of the TPs to be completely truthful with the media but Horner has basically bullstted about the reasons for Gasly's demotion and Albon's promotion. The stats don't back it up and neither do the results. Red Bull have seemingly created a car that's so difficult to drive that only Verstappen can tame it? No chance, you'd just stick the duffer in the sim for a week solid and tell them to get on with it.

So what is it? Maybe we'll never know.

I do know that Ocon and Gasly used to be in each others pockets and then had the mother of all fall outs-I'm pretty certain they still don't speak. So maybe Gasly is a nightmare? Having said that Hamilton and Rosberg used to be best buddies too...

You can't be interested in the midfield and not think that Gasly has been absolutely stellar this year though-he has had some absolute belters (and I don't even include Monza in that) and has only really had Mugello as a bum result-which I put down to his fault as he qualified uncharacteristically poor which put him in the danger zone and ended up getting punted off.

Just look at his position in the championship, he's up there with drivers of cars that are much better the the AT.

Then look at Saintz who managed, by very good management, to get out of the Red Bull circus. If Gasly can do the same he's got every chance of ended up at a top team (yes I know Ferrari but they are a top team and will get back there).

[DanielSan]

Sandpit Steve said:

How many series are actually out there with six-figure driver budgets?

F1, FE, WEC LMP/Hypercar, Indy, NASCAR, DTM, maybe factory teams in Aussie and UK touring cars. Is that about it?

Most former F1 drivers can (and do) make more money from media and promotional work, than driving cars in races.

Factory team is a very loose sense of the word in BTCC, every driver on that grid is bringing sponsorship and have some form of day job.

Aussie V8's is much the same barring maybe 3 or 4 drivers.

[faa77]

Callum43 said:

I think Red Bull should ship in Dan Ticktum as the second driver . No idea if he’d be up to it against Verstappen as a driver but at least he could match him on abuse to others .

Verstappen would get his backside kicked 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[faa77]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

You can try and remember things any way you want, the proof is there in the history books.

Albon in 12 races for Red Bull 2020 has scored 64 points
Gasley in his first 12 races for Red Bull 2019 scored 61 points

So Albon is better than Gasly? Only problem is in 2020 Albon is in comfortably the second best car on the grid, by a country mile.

In 2019 Gasly was in the third best car on the grid behind a fine performing Ferrari duo who were scoring podiums and victories. In 2020, all things considered a Red Bull should finish 3rd and 4th in every race, 2019 they should have been 5th and 6th.

Compare the same results with team mates in Toro Rosso/Alpha Touri

2019 first 12 races
Albon 16 points
Kvyat 27 points

2020
Gasly 63 points
Kvyat 14 points

I'm trying to compare things on a purely factual base, all of the above is there for everyone to see. Gasly in Red Bull was on average 0.529 seconds a lap slower than Verstappen, not exactly great. It is however less than Albon who's a few hundredths slower still.

By all means have your favourites, I see why people like Albon as he comes across as a nice enough lad and speaks like he went to public school.

But to say he's quicker than Gasly? The stats don't back it up (unless it's his mum cooking the books again).

You're comparing Albon and Gasly via points, time behind Max etc but you're neglecting this year's car isn't same as the one Gasly drove.

And you're forgetting Gasly p*ssed them all off.

[faa77]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

By all means have your favourites, I see why people like Albon as he comes across as a nice enough lad and speaks like he went to public school.

I completely missed this. Were you the same person a few weeks back saying Norris sounds posh?

They don't sound posh (think Hugh Grant or Boris), just most people nowadays sound like a KFC or Just Eat advert.

Some of us talk normally.

Edited by faa77 on Thursday 29th October 01:43

[Durzel]

faa77 said:

I completely missed this. Were you the same person a few weeks back saying Norris sounds posh?

They don't sound posh (think Hugh Grant or Boris), just most people nowadays sound like a KFC or Just Eat advert.

Some of us talk normally.

Edited by faa77 on Thursday 29th October 01:43

“Speak”, surely?