The Official F1 2021 silly season *contains speculation*
Discussion
Muzzer79 said:
TheDeuce said:
Deesee said:
Nb, as we know Mr Wolff is involved with Racing Point/Aston Martin as well as Mercedes, and none of his drivers have been appointed as new for next year..
Interesting side point... Mercedes (Daimler) are also involved in Aston Martin. I have said it a few times but I think there is something more of a plan coming together there involving Toto, Stroll, AM and Mercedes than just F1, and more to come in F1 terms as a result of it too. I feel like we're currently seeing about 50% of whatever Toto and Stroll are working on.Maybe Mercedes at some point need to kick their AMG brand to a sub brand in order to avoid huge EU emissions fines as a mainstream car producer? The powertrains are already in the AM cars.. It would allow Mercedes to finally exit F1 after becoming pretty much undefeatable for perhaps decades yet still retain a presence as AMG as a PU supplier feeding the marketing interests of AM that Toto, Stroll and Daimler have interests in and at a stroke transfer what has been great about Mercedes F1 to AM F1, provide a new home for Mercedes AMG power both on track and on the road and help Mercedes as car builders move on to a new future without the lead weight of petrol swigging V8's bogging them down as a brand. Mercedes = quality sensible and responsible cars. AM = fun cars for the rich and gittish.
All hopeless speculation of course! But I'm convinced there is more of a plan coming together than we have seen to date. Too many crossovers in terms of investment and cooperation to believe otherwise.
Edited by TheDeuce on Friday 23 October 23:22
I really don’t get why some people are so adamant that Mercedes are exiting.
Nothing Mercedes have said or done indicates that this will happen?
It would make sense to distance the mainstream Mercedes brand from F1, as the future of the everyday road car is diverging from it.
AMG will tolerate association with fossil fuels maybe for a bit longer. However the oft referenced, multi billion dollar marketing boost Mercedes receive from F1, might be reduced if it's promoting only the AMG element.
AMG will tolerate association with fossil fuels maybe for a bit longer. However the oft referenced, multi billion dollar marketing boost Mercedes receive from F1, might be reduced if it's promoting only the AMG element.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
It would make sense to distance the mainstream Mercedes brand from F1, as the future of the everyday road car is diverging from it.
AMG will tolerate association with fossil fuels maybe for a bit longer. However the oft referenced, multi billion dollar marketing boost Mercedes receive from F1, might be reduced if it's promoting only the AMG element.
That's broadly my thinking. If they can wholesale split AMG from their Mercedes brand in terms of sales figures they can save a crap load of EU fines. Various car firms are looking to do that sort of thing, and on some level it probably will tie in with their investment in Aston Martin and the fact they already have their AMG powertrains in the cars.AMG will tolerate association with fossil fuels maybe for a bit longer. However the oft referenced, multi billion dollar marketing boost Mercedes receive from F1, might be reduced if it's promoting only the AMG element.
The future of AMG, M cars using ICE is to produce more specialist and expensive cars in much lower volumes, and under a separate entity to the mainstream car production. It's the only way high polluting performance cars can be made without the fines robbing the mainstream cars of profit margin.
In terms of F1, it will start to make less sense in terms of Mercedes future but will still be very relevant in terms of promoting AMG power and obviously brands such as Aston Martin.
Mr Pointy said:
leef44 said:
jsf said:
The last 2 pages of this thread are hilarious.
Sorry, did I miss something Hence my confusion, they normally come to post after the race to moan how boring the race was and how great it was in the 70's when there was more to learn from new technology.
leef44 said:
Mr Pointy said:
leef44 said:
jsf said:
The last 2 pages of this thread are hilarious.
Sorry, did I miss something Hence my confusion, they normally come to post after the race to moan how boring the race was and how great it was in the 70's when there was more to learn from new technology.
Nampahc Niloc said:
leef44 said:
Mr Pointy said:
leef44 said:
jsf said:
The last 2 pages of this thread are hilarious.
Sorry, did I miss something Hence my confusion, they normally come to post after the race to moan how boring the race was and how great it was in the 70's when there was more to learn from new technology.
The mental gymnastics suggesting Russell is rubbish just shows how little those saying that understand what they are watching.
Nampahc Niloc said:
JSF has got a lot of technical knowledge and often brings great insight into the discussion. However he also can be known for making dismissive and rather arrogant remarks like that above without bothering to give any sort of explanation.
Fair point, I take it back. jsf has provided some wonderful insight with his experience in F1 and I have enjoyed reading those posts.
jsf said:
Isn't it obvious why i think the last two pages were hilarious?
The mental gymnastics suggesting Russell is rubbish just shows how little those saying that understand what they are watching.
Agreed, what he has achieved in getting ahead of a Ferrari in qualifying is akin to how far up Le Clerc has put his car up on the grid. It's a shame he has not got a better seat to prove his ability because that does not get the same recognition.The mental gymnastics suggesting Russell is rubbish just shows how little those saying that understand what they are watching.
jsf said:
Isn't it obvious why i think the last two pages were hilarious?
The mental gymnastics suggesting Russell is rubbish just shows how little those saying that understand what they are watching.
Those who think that obviously don’t understand how talented he is. I think he’s up there with Verstappen and Eclair. In fact I’d say he’s better than the latter. The mental gymnastics suggesting Russell is rubbish just shows how little those saying that understand what they are watching.
TheDeuce said:
That's broadly my thinking. If they can wholesale split AMG from their Mercedes brand in terms of sales figures they can save a crap load of EU fines. Various car firms are looking to do that sort of thing, and on some level it probably will tie in with their investment in Aston Martin and the fact they already have their AMG powertrains in the cars.
The future of AMG, M cars using ICE is to produce more specialist and expensive cars in much lower volumes, and under a separate entity to the mainstream car production. It's the only way high polluting performance cars can be made without the fines robbing the mainstream cars of profit margin.
In terms of F1, it will start to make less sense in terms of Mercedes future but will still be very relevant in terms of promoting AMG power and obviously brands such as Aston Martin.
You might be overthinking it. I don't expect Mercedes to separate AMG out.The future of AMG, M cars using ICE is to produce more specialist and expensive cars in much lower volumes, and under a separate entity to the mainstream car production. It's the only way high polluting performance cars can be made without the fines robbing the mainstream cars of profit margin.
In terms of F1, it will start to make less sense in terms of Mercedes future but will still be very relevant in terms of promoting AMG power and obviously brands such as Aston Martin.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
TheDeuce said:
That's broadly my thinking. If they can wholesale split AMG from their Mercedes brand in terms of sales figures they can save a crap load of EU fines. Various car firms are looking to do that sort of thing, and on some level it probably will tie in with their investment in Aston Martin and the fact they already have their AMG powertrains in the cars.
The future of AMG, M cars using ICE is to produce more specialist and expensive cars in much lower volumes, and under a separate entity to the mainstream car production. It's the only way high polluting performance cars can be made without the fines robbing the mainstream cars of profit margin.
In terms of F1, it will start to make less sense in terms of Mercedes future but will still be very relevant in terms of promoting AMG power and obviously brands such as Aston Martin.
You might be overthinking it. I don't expect Mercedes to separate AMG out.The future of AMG, M cars using ICE is to produce more specialist and expensive cars in much lower volumes, and under a separate entity to the mainstream car production. It's the only way high polluting performance cars can be made without the fines robbing the mainstream cars of profit margin.
In terms of F1, it will start to make less sense in terms of Mercedes future but will still be very relevant in terms of promoting AMG power and obviously brands such as Aston Martin.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
ou might be overthinking it. I don't expect Mercedes to separate AMG out.
I don't know. I think it makes commercial sense after they have announced that MB is now focusing on luxury cars. Split AMG, make it focused on performance and handling and have two separate subsidiaries to try to increase market share with different branding.leef44 said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
ou might be overthinking it. I don't expect Mercedes to separate AMG out.
I don't know. I think it makes commercial sense after they have announced that MB is now focusing on luxury cars. Split AMG, make it focused on performance and handling and have two separate subsidiaries to try to increase market share with different branding.thegreenhell said:
TheDeuce said:
And remove EU emissions fines from MB.. Pretty big deal that bit!!
How would it do that? It just pushes it all onto AMG.They probably will still be fined as they can't keep within the caps before fines apply, but that's OK - it's why performance cars have been getting more expensive for years. They can also loan the new outfits money to cover the fines for years until such cars are no longer in demand in anycase, and then recoup that money from the sale of the exhausted brand to an extent. Anything is better than having such cars clogging up the mainstream cars sales and emissions figures. In addition they can still license 'AMG' branding back from the AMG spinoff for the sake of producing AMG kitted variants of their everyday cars, as at present.
There is a reason you can buy an m-sport or AMG spec car that is not an M car or an AMG car already...
ks.Nampahc Niloc said:
That’s got to be the end for Albon at Red Bull. Did I miss something? How did he end up twelfth?
He is doing as well as he has done for his whole career so far.Started 6th ended up behind Vettel and Kimi who started 15th and 16th.
Wonder if helmut will be able to say with a straight face that was acceptable this week.
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