Official 2020 Austrian & Styrian Grand Prix Thread *Spoilers
Discussion
Deesee said:
Yeh but, no drive at all.. crazy.. these cars are next yrs so Merc could put him in and not have to worry about the WCC.
And Albon being off the pace, he’s driving a car with no upgrades (max had these) apart from a front wing of which they bought the grand total of two, then which Max broke his in FP2 turn 7, so they brought in Alex’s car during the session took it off and saved for Quali for Max....
out of interest where did you hear this?And Albon being off the pace, he’s driving a car with no upgrades (max had these) apart from a front wing of which they bought the grand total of two, then which Max broke his in FP2 turn 7, so they brought in Alex’s car during the session took it off and saved for Quali for Max....
Teddy Lop said:
Deesee said:
Yeh but, no drive at all.. crazy.. these cars are next yrs so Merc could put him in and not have to worry about the WCC.
And Albon being off the pace, he’s driving a car with no upgrades (max had these) apart from a front wing of which they bought the grand total of two, then which Max broke his in FP2 turn 7, so they brought in Alex’s car during the session took it off and saved for Quali for Max....
out of interest where did you hear this?And Albon being off the pace, he’s driving a car with no upgrades (max had these) apart from a front wing of which they bought the grand total of two, then which Max broke his in FP2 turn 7, so they brought in Alex’s car during the session took it off and saved for Quali for Max....
I missed much of this due to Mrs deuce insisting on having a birthday and us spending all day with friends at the pub 
Not hard to catch up though, seems like it all went about as expected - other than a shock showing from McLaren!!! Also DR finding his way in to Q3 was decent.
Given the strength of the new order, Ferrari ended up roughly where I expected. And God only knows how they justify that to themselves... All the money, the advantages, the pedigree.. it's as if they forgot how to make a car go fast. I don't accept them being found out for cheating last season as a reason - they're being soundly thrashed by others that never cheated in the first place.
Have they spent so long playing games and acting clever that they've lost the ability to deliver a strong car in a fair competition? If the Hungary car isn't a game changer then I have to question what they spend all those hundreds of millions on!?
Mercedes climb higher still. Half a second at a short circuit.. behave!
Not hard to catch up though, seems like it all went about as expected - other than a shock showing from McLaren!!! Also DR finding his way in to Q3 was decent.
Given the strength of the new order, Ferrari ended up roughly where I expected. And God only knows how they justify that to themselves... All the money, the advantages, the pedigree.. it's as if they forgot how to make a car go fast. I don't accept them being found out for cheating last season as a reason - they're being soundly thrashed by others that never cheated in the first place.
Have they spent so long playing games and acting clever that they've lost the ability to deliver a strong car in a fair competition? If the Hungary car isn't a game changer then I have to question what they spend all those hundreds of millions on!?
Mercedes climb higher still. Half a second at a short circuit.. behave!
Deesee said:
Teddy Lop said:
Deesee said:
Yeh but, no drive at all.. crazy.. these cars are next yrs so Merc could put him in and not have to worry about the WCC.
And Albon being off the pace, he’s driving a car with no upgrades (max had these) apart from a front wing of which they bought the grand total of two, then which Max broke his in FP2 turn 7, so they brought in Alex’s car during the session took it off and saved for Quali for Max....
out of interest where did you hear this?And Albon being off the pace, he’s driving a car with no upgrades (max had these) apart from a front wing of which they bought the grand total of two, then which Max broke his in FP2 turn 7, so they brought in Alex’s car during the session took it off and saved for Quali for Max....
Bottas is going to make the end of season clips already:
https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/127949184...
As stated before by someone it looks like they are screwed as the engine has dropped huge gains. It looks like at least 0.5 seconds based on the Ferrari team times compared to last season. That's never going to be got back due to other changes in the car, at least not in the short season and limited races we are likely to have. It also means their research is presumably useless, so they need to go down a new route for engine upgrades.
https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/127949184...
TheDeuce said:
Not hard to catch up though, seems like it all went about as expected - other than a shock showing from McLaren!!! Also DR finding his way in to Q3 was decent.
Given the strength of the new order, Ferrari ended up roughly where I expected. And God only knows how they justify that to themselves... All the money, the advantages, the pedigree.. it's as if they forgot how to make a car go fast. I don't accept them being found out for cheating last season as a reason - they're being soundly thrashed by others that never cheated in the first place.
Have they spent so long playing games and acting clever that they've lost the ability to deliver a strong car in a fair competition? If the Hungary car isn't a game changer then I have to question what they spend all those hundreds of millions on!?
Mercedes climb higher still. Half a second at a short circuit.. behave!
Not really what was expected, going by posts on here before. Most were saying Ferrari would drop back, but it would still be Mercedes, then a gap to RB and Ferrrari, with perhaps those 2 being fought by RP with the Merc copy. Actually looks like Merc, gap then most others with RB and McLaren. And Ferrari further back in that second group. Given the strength of the new order, Ferrari ended up roughly where I expected. And God only knows how they justify that to themselves... All the money, the advantages, the pedigree.. it's as if they forgot how to make a car go fast. I don't accept them being found out for cheating last season as a reason - they're being soundly thrashed by others that never cheated in the first place.
Have they spent so long playing games and acting clever that they've lost the ability to deliver a strong car in a fair competition? If the Hungary car isn't a game changer then I have to question what they spend all those hundreds of millions on!?
Mercedes climb higher still. Half a second at a short circuit.. behave!
As stated before by someone it looks like they are screwed as the engine has dropped huge gains. It looks like at least 0.5 seconds based on the Ferrari team times compared to last season. That's never going to be got back due to other changes in the car, at least not in the short season and limited races we are likely to have. It also means their research is presumably useless, so they need to go down a new route for engine upgrades.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Teddy Lop said:
oh, how is the old goat?
I imagine he keeps an eye on proceedings. Teddy Lop said:
Deesee said:
Teddy Lop said:
Deesee said:
Yeh but, no drive at all.. crazy.. these cars are next yrs so Merc could put him in and not have to worry about the WCC.
And Albon being off the pace, he’s driving a car with no upgrades (max had these) apart from a front wing of which they bought the grand total of two, then which Max broke his in FP2 turn 7, so they brought in Alex’s car during the session took it off and saved for Quali for Max....
out of interest where did you hear this?And Albon being off the pace, he’s driving a car with no upgrades (max had these) apart from a front wing of which they bought the grand total of two, then which Max broke his in FP2 turn 7, so they brought in Alex’s car during the session took it off and saved for Quali for Max....
No they should have had 2 drivers in the top 4 this afternoon, they were all told not to go over turn 7 because of the curb..
Uk TV places Horner as the brains, he’s not..
NRS said:
Not really what was expected, going by posts on here before. Most were saying Ferrari would drop back, but it would still be Mercedes, then a gap to RB and Ferrrari, with perhaps those 2 being fought by RP with the Merc copy. Actually looks like Merc, gap then most others with RB and McLaren. And Ferrari further back in that second group.
As stated before by someone it looks like they are screwed as the engine has dropped huge gains. It looks like at least 0.5 seconds based on the Ferrari team times compared to last season. That's never going to be got back due to other changes in the car, at least not in the short season and limited races we are likely to have. It also means their research is presumably useless, so they need to go down a new route for engine upgrades.
From my perspective it was expected - Ferrari had a poor car last year masked by an unfair power advantage. But I'll admit I didn't (dare to..) predict they'd be so far down the order.As stated before by someone it looks like they are screwed as the engine has dropped huge gains. It looks like at least 0.5 seconds based on the Ferrari team times compared to last season. That's never going to be got back due to other changes in the car, at least not in the short season and limited races we are likely to have. It also means their research is presumably useless, so they need to go down a new route for engine upgrades.
Have to question why their PU is so hopeless now. We can understand why it was king of the grid when they were 'stretching' the rules.. but having been found out, is the reality that they can't be competitive in power terms in a fair race? They essentially don't have a competitive PU. Also some dodgy aero..
That should be a pretty big deal as they have resources other teams can only dream of, and some of those other teams are now ahead of them. That's a pretty big deal because it calls in to question their ability to make a racecar - and in marketing terms that's not good for their brand. It's one thing for them not to win.. quite another to be beaten by a fizzy drinks company and a British supercar manufacturer.
Hopefully, for them, us and the sport, the new car will lift them back in to a more respectable place on the grid.
Schermerhorn said:
Nampahc Niloc said:
Evangelion said:
Dunno what you lot are getting all excited about.
Lap 1, Bottas leaps out the way because he has been told to. Race over. Total borefest as usual.
I'm not worried, I've got some paint I can watch drying.
What makes you think that’s going to happen? Mercedes have always allowed their drivers to race.Lap 1, Bottas leaps out the way because he has been told to. Race over. Total borefest as usual.
I'm not worried, I've got some paint I can watch drying.
I’d like to think I know what’s going on in F1 (if anyone ever asked me) so I was shocked to watch the highlights expecting to see Sainz up against Chuck Le Cluk at Ferrari and Riciardo in Carlos seat at McL and Vettel no where to be seen - so I was a bit shocked to see VET on the time sheets and realised all the talk was actually for next year not this year lol yawn!
Good to see Lando Norris carry on his amazing skills from last year - one to watch ( not long since he was in Ginetta juniors!)
Good to see Lando Norris carry on his amazing skills from last year - one to watch ( not long since he was in Ginetta juniors!)
Gary C said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Is the problem at Ferrari the chassis or the PU (or both)? The drivers don't seem to be complaining too hard about the chassis balance, rather it's just not quick enough. The new infographics suggested the Ferrari isn't to shabby in the corners.
Could it be that the cheating deal struck has totally hobbled the Ferrari PU? I could imagine a large proportion of their development over the past year or more has been around the naughty concept. Remove the naughty concept, and you've lost the benefit of all that development effort. The others have put their development time into legal solutions, so get to keep the benefit of it. That would leave Ferrari with a PU well behind the others, and frozen for the rest of this season (I imagine subject to the usual reliability/safety exemptions).
If the above were true, Ferrari could bring a whole new chassis to Budapest, and a lame PU would still keep it well back.
Unless they are compensating for the poor chassis with extra downforceCould it be that the cheating deal struck has totally hobbled the Ferrari PU? I could imagine a large proportion of their development over the past year or more has been around the naughty concept. Remove the naughty concept, and you've lost the benefit of all that development effort. The others have put their development time into legal solutions, so get to keep the benefit of it. That would leave Ferrari with a PU well behind the others, and frozen for the rest of this season (I imagine subject to the usual reliability/safety exemptions).
If the above were true, Ferrari could bring a whole new chassis to Budapest, and a lame PU would still keep it well back.
TheDeuce said:
From my perspective it was expected - Ferrari had a poor car last year masked by an unfair power advantage. But I'll admit I didn't (dare to..) predict they'd be so far down the order.
Have to question why their PU is so hopeless now. We can understand why it was king of the grid when they were 'stretching' the rules.. but having been found out, is the reality that they can't be competitive in power terms in a fair race? They essentially don't have a competitive PU. Also some dodgy aero..
That should be a pretty big deal as they have resources other teams can only dream of, and some of those other teams are now ahead of them. That's a pretty big deal because it calls in to question their ability to make a racecar - and in marketing terms that's not good for their brand. It's one thing for them not to win.. quite another to be beaten by a fizzy drinks company and a British supercar manufacturer.
Hopefully, for them, us and the sport, the new car will lift them back in to a more respectable place on the grid.
Fizzy drinks company and British Supercar manufacturer… …they beat Forza Ferrari…Have to question why their PU is so hopeless now. We can understand why it was king of the grid when they were 'stretching' the rules.. but having been found out, is the reality that they can't be competitive in power terms in a fair race? They essentially don't have a competitive PU. Also some dodgy aero..
That should be a pretty big deal as they have resources other teams can only dream of, and some of those other teams are now ahead of them. That's a pretty big deal because it calls in to question their ability to make a racecar - and in marketing terms that's not good for their brand. It's one thing for them not to win.. quite another to be beaten by a fizzy drinks company and a British supercar manufacturer.
Hopefully, for them, us and the sport, the new car will lift them back in to a more respectable place on the grid.
Deuce, when you put it like that, it drives the nail home into the ‘proverbial’…
I mentioned earlier in this thread, the Radio commentary response just after Q2. “Shambolic”, one of the reporters said and that was said after a pause and a noticeable draw of breath…
One can only imagine the Conference calls being organised, IMMEDIATELY after Q2… …as well as Ferrari Engine Department being called in, on an ‘emergency setting’ and working all night on a 12 hour shift, followed by another 12 hour shift today, all probably drinking Red Bull to keep them going!
Forza Ferrari are ruthless and the new management team that have discarded Sebastian Vettel, will now be discarded. The question is, will those who have discarded Sebastian Vettel, be leaving Forza Ferrari BEFORE him?
Leithen said:
He's not very good at masking his feelings.
Vettel also did the interview after quali shown on C4 with no mask (C4 aren't there at the track so they're using Sky interviews). The shaped masks they all have a version of do look a pain though, most of the drivers in those interviews were adjusting them a lot as they were talking.Ferrari have had lean patches before, anyone remember the pre Schumacher years of Berger and Alessi.
Many posters probably got into F1 during the 99 to 08 period when Ferrari were always there or there about but looking back before 99 they had massive lean periods going back to the late 70s early 80s to when they last got a constructors or drivers championship.
When I got into F1 it was always about when will Ferrari turn it around and who will win the championship for them. Will they keep racing etc. Rules were always being seen to be stretched for Ferrari as they had this special magical status.
It’s like that again now but they’ve got no special right to be on top.
Their last turnaround took a massive clear out when Schumacher arrived with Ross Brawn etc Ferrari seem to need to have another clear out and buy that combination of top driver, management, strategists and designers they had with Schumacher Brawn and Rory Byrne to succeed again.
Unfortunately the problem at the moment is that Ferrari is being run by Ferrari people.
Many posters probably got into F1 during the 99 to 08 period when Ferrari were always there or there about but looking back before 99 they had massive lean periods going back to the late 70s early 80s to when they last got a constructors or drivers championship.
When I got into F1 it was always about when will Ferrari turn it around and who will win the championship for them. Will they keep racing etc. Rules were always being seen to be stretched for Ferrari as they had this special magical status.
It’s like that again now but they’ve got no special right to be on top.
Their last turnaround took a massive clear out when Schumacher arrived with Ross Brawn etc Ferrari seem to need to have another clear out and buy that combination of top driver, management, strategists and designers they had with Schumacher Brawn and Rory Byrne to succeed again.
Unfortunately the problem at the moment is that Ferrari is being run by Ferrari people.
El stovey said:
Ferrari have had lean patches before, anyone remember the pre Schumacher years of Berger and Alessi.
Many posters probably got into F1 during the 99 to 08 period when Ferrari were always there or there about but looking back before 99 they had massive lean periods going back to the late 70s early 80s to when they last got a constructors or drivers championship.
When I got into F1 it was always about when will Ferrari turn it around and who will win the championship for them. Will they keep racing etc. Rules were always being seen to be stretched for Ferrari as they had this special magical status.
It’s like that again now but they’ve got no special right to be on top.
Their last turnaround took a massive clear out when Schumacher arrived with Ross Brawn etc Ferrari seem to need to have another clear out and buy that combination of top driver, management, strategists and designers they had with Schumacher Brawn and Rory Byrne to succeed again.
Unfortunately the problem at the moment is that Ferrari is being run by Ferrari people.
I agree with all of this.Many posters probably got into F1 during the 99 to 08 period when Ferrari were always there or there about but looking back before 99 they had massive lean periods going back to the late 70s early 80s to when they last got a constructors or drivers championship.
When I got into F1 it was always about when will Ferrari turn it around and who will win the championship for them. Will they keep racing etc. Rules were always being seen to be stretched for Ferrari as they had this special magical status.
It’s like that again now but they’ve got no special right to be on top.
Their last turnaround took a massive clear out when Schumacher arrived with Ross Brawn etc Ferrari seem to need to have another clear out and buy that combination of top driver, management, strategists and designers they had with Schumacher Brawn and Rory Byrne to succeed again.
Unfortunately the problem at the moment is that Ferrari is being run by Ferrari people.
The Berger & Alessi years were an embarrassment tbh. Much as I like Berger & Alessi.
faa77 said:
Glad Russell wasn't 19th, think he'll do well in the race, should aim for 10th.
At the moment Latifi unfortunately looks like a paid-seat.
Hoping for MV to distract LH on the start, leaving VB to sail on!
I think Russell was a star of qualifying. One of those laps that will be lost on most people but he is doing a fine job. I really hope Mercedes take note.At the moment Latifi unfortunately looks like a paid-seat.
Hoping for MV to distract LH on the start, leaving VB to sail on!
Latifi doesn't look like a paid seat, he is one. But I think its a little early to be too critical. His qualifying was ruined due to that FP3 error. I still find it odd that he went off in T1 just seconds after Perez went through the same corner T1 puffing smoke out the back. It wasn't mentioned on commentary but maybe he hit some fluid? Either way he did a solid job in F2 where the cars are equal against guys now rated well in F1 so he deserves a more of a chance before being judged.
I think Max needs to be more worried about Norris at the start than thinking about challenging Lewis. Don't forget that Max is starting on the medium tyre so Norris should all things being equal get off the line slightly better as he has the softer tyres.
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