Official 2020 Austrian & Styrian Grand Prix Thread *Spoilers

[anonymous-user]

TheDeuce said:

We all know (roughly) how they were cheating.

So why the power deficit now then? Before the cheating they were on a broadly similar PU development path to Mercedes, why are they now so far behind?

When did they start cheating? Day one probably.

Some people are better at engineering than others, to think everyone can develop the same efficiency is idiotic.

[TheDeuce]

jsf said:

TheDeuce said:

We all know (roughly) how they were cheating.

So why the power deficit now then? Before the cheating they were on a broadly similar PU development path to Mercedes, why are they now so far behind?

When did they start cheating? Day one probably.

Some people are better at engineering than others, to think everyone can develop the same efficiency is idiotic.

I don't think it's 'idiotic' in this instance, there is often convergence when engineers are competing within a fairly strict framework of regulation after several years, especially with some exchange of staff. However, it's ultimately impossible to know when the cheating started.. so you may be right. Perhaps they have cheated from day one of the hybrid era, and perhaps that is due to the fact that for some reason Ferrari can't get the same power from their PU as the other 3 outfits can - which isn't an easy conclusion given their long experience of developing racing engines

That would also suggest, if they're around 30hp down now, that at their height of cheating they were getting somewhere between 45-60hp from the cheat alone. Which would make it a fairly significant cheat.

[Teddy Lop]

TheDeuce said:

Or not been aware of it - which indirectly means he doesn't know what his team are doing. Take your pick Binotto - sounds like you don't come out of this one looking great either way..

With all the politics bouncing around that team it's entirely possible he is actually something of a victim in all this, got to be open minded about that possibility. However, he has the title and the responsibility, it will be him that gets thrown under a bus if Ferrari are minded to do some housekeeping.

Gerhard Berger made an interesting observation that could mean everything or nothing - essentially that the Schumacher glory years had the todt/Brawn/Byrne power trio running the show, similarly red bulls glory years had Horner/marko/Newey. A powerful, capable and resilient group who had each others backs. Whereas ferrari today just seems to be the innocuous binotto running the show.

[Leithen]

Teddy Lop said:

Gerhard Berger made an interesting observation that could mean everything or nothing - essentially that the Schumacher glory years had the todt/Brawn/Byrne power trio running the show, similarly red bulls glory years had Horner/marko/Newey. A powerful, capable and resilient group who had each others backs. Whereas ferrari today just seems to be the innocuous binotto running the show.

It would be very interesting to have Stefano Domenicali's unfiltered take on it all.

[Deesee]

So.. Alonso will be at every gp now going onwards, perhaps he will even get some time in FP1, I suppose the only silver lining in this is Flávio being back in the paddock, small blessings eh..

[TheDeuce]

Teddy Lop said:

Gerhard Berger made an interesting observation that could mean everything or nothing - essentially that the Schumacher glory years had the todt/Brawn/Byrne power trio running the show, similarly red bulls glory years had Horner/marko/Newey. A powerful, capable and resilient group who had each others backs. Whereas ferrari today just seems to be the innocuous binotto running the show.

I think the right people directing the team will always be vital. But Ferrari also have to be in a place where they want to assemble such a team and give them carte blanche control. It obviously will help if the guys in charge of each main aspect of the team can be respectful of one another, sort out their own disagreements without playing politics vs one another and involving the board. The team in charge of the team need to themselves be a tight and impenetrable team.

As it is, Binotto does appear almost a spokesperson/housekeeper - it wouldn't surprise me if key decisions were made by the board with little regard to whatever his personal idea of a masterplan for the team might be. The other day he literally re-re-re-confirmed the updates would come in Hungary, then the following day Ferrari's CEO gives his own statement to say that the updates will be coming in time for the second race at Austria. Who exactly is running this team, then?

[CoolHands]

That discord is their problem

[sandman77]

thegreenhell said:

Kubica is to do FP1 on Friday, replacing Joe Vinazzi. Should be an interesting comparison to Kimi.

It was great he managed to return to F1 after his accident but we don’t need to kid ourselves that it was in any way successful. He will be much slower than Kimi. He is wasting everyone’s time by testing the car.

[TheDeuce]

sandman77 said:

thegreenhell said:

Kubica is to do FP1 on Friday, replacing Joe Vinazzi. Should be an interesting comparison to Kimi.

It was great he managed to return to F1 after his accident but we don’t need to kid ourselves that it was in any way successful. He will be much slower than Kimi. He is wasting everyone’s time by testing the car.

I think that's likely -but good on him for keeping himself involved and still having some F1 driving opportunity. Although cynically we should remember he brings some pretty hefty sponsorship with him too..

I suppose if he did manage to outshine Kimi then that would prove once and for all the GR is an absolute genius for managing to out qualify him all season!

[ajprice]

Lando's last two laps, clear track, going from 6.5 to 4.8 behind Hamilton https://youtu.be/XgXo0509S28
(This is a new one posted 9 hours ago, the last video posted was the last lap)

[vaud]

sandman77 said:

It was great he managed to return to F1 after his accident but we don’t need to kid ourselves that it was in any way successful. He will be much slower than Kimi. He is wasting everyone’s time by testing the car.

Testing is about the ability to compare and contrast - providing detailed feedback rather than outright speed.

[suffolk009]

Will Renault be putting Alonso in DR's car for testing?

[ch37]

TheDeuce said:

How about... Run the race the same drection... but with the cars in reverse!

A genuinely good shout, although still a challenge from a technical/practical perspective, was to start the second F1 race at Silverstone from the old start line.

[Nampahc Niloc]

ch37 said:

TheDeuce said:

How about... Run the race the same drection... but with the cars in reverse!

A genuinely good shout, although still a challenge from a technical/practical perspective, was to start the second F1 race at Silverstone from the old start line.

Now if they could also return the gravel trap to the outside of Copse that would make for a good start.

[TheDeuce]

suffolk009 said:

Will Renault be putting Alonso in DR's car for testing?

They surely will.. actually the Renault compared to the rest of the grid looks about as useful as the old McLaren he used to complain about - so he'll feel back at home I'm sure. He'll be interviewed afterwards and I expect even after his first practice session he'll find the words to ps off and demotivate at least a small part of the team

[HustleRussell]

sandman77 said:

thegreenhell said:

Kubica is to do FP1 on Friday, replacing Joe Vinazzi. Should be an interesting comparison to Kimi.

It was great he managed to return to F1 after his accident but we don’t need to kid ourselves that it was in any way successful. He will be much slower than Kimi. He is wasting everyone’s time by testing the car.

I’m sure Kimi will be interested to hear Kubica’s thoughts on the car as he is a respected development driver. As a stakeholder in Sauber I’m sure Kimi will also be glad of the Orlen money.

[trackdemon]

Deesee said:

The one the only

Alphamaxnaova1

https://reddit.app.link/iQwEJtBkU7

With his ‘highlights’.. this is a good one.

What the hell did I just watch?

Bizarre....(ly amusing)

[Deesee]

trackdemon said:

Deesee said:

The one the only

Alphamaxnaova1

https://reddit.app.link/iQwEJtBkU7

With his ‘highlights’.. this is a good one.

What the hell did I just watch?

Bizarre....(ly amusing)

The SBINS & SBPINS + Eurobeat

SBINNALA!

[trackdemon]

Meanwhile, still looks like we're on for an 'interesting' quali...

https://www.yr.no/place/Austria/Styria/Spielberg_b...

[sandman77]

HustleRussell said:

I’m sure Kimi will be interested to hear Kubica’s thoughts on the car as he is a respected development driver. As a stakeholder in Sauber I’m sure Kimi will also be glad of the Orlen money.

Respected development driver? Are you talking about the stellar work he did for Williams? I honestly do not understand the love for him on these forums. Ok, he looked like a good driver with lots of potential before his accident but is nowhere near that level now and I fail to see how having him participate in a practice session will help the team.