Official 2020 Austrian & Styrian Grand Prix Thread *Spoilers

[TheDeuce]

sandman77 said:

Respected development driver? Are you talking about the stellar work he did for Williams? I honestly do not understand the love for him on these forums. Ok, he looked like a good driver with lots of potential before his accident but is nowhere near that level now and I fail to see how having him participate in a practice session will help the team.

About £10m worth of reasons why having him in that role will help the team - assuming the Orlen sponsorship is similar to the level it was when he got the Williams drive.

He arguably is (was) a good development driver in terms of experience and past history too. But since his return he couldn't seem to push the Williams as far as GR, and I would have thought that a development drivers input is at it's most useful when the car is at or approaching it's limits, so that those limits can be refined and extended. As such I would argue that at Williams, GR's input was potentially more useful than his.

We shall see though, and very soon.

[thegreenhell]

TheDeuce said:

sandman77 said:

Respected development driver? Are you talking about the stellar work he did for Williams? I honestly do not understand the love for him on these forums. Ok, he looked like a good driver with lots of potential before his accident but is nowhere near that level now and I fail to see how having him participate in a practice session will help the team.

About £10m worth of reasons why having him in that role will help the team - assuming the Orlen sponsorship is similar to the level it was when he got the Williams drive.

He arguably is (was) a good development driver in terms of experience and past history too. But since his return he couldn't seem to push the Williams as far as GR, and I would have thought that a development drivers input is at it's most useful when the car is at or approaching it's limits, so that those limits can be refined and extended. As such I would argue that at Williams, GR's input was potentially more useful than his.

We shall see though, and very soon.

It's not the development driver's job to push for every last tenth of a second, nor is it his job to tell the engineers how to design a faster car. All the team wants from him is to be able to drive consistently so that back to back changes can be analysed and assessed accurately, and to provide detailed technical feedback of the car's behaviour. Some of the best developmnet drivers are guys you've never heard of, and wouldn't be fast enough to get a fulltime race seat in a top team. Conversely, some of the fastest drivers were known to be sh!t at setting up a car and giving feedback, but they're fast so they get to race.

[paulguitar]

thegreenhell said:

Conversely, some of the fastest drivers were known to be sh!t at setting up a car and giving feedback, but they're fast so they get to race.

Ronnie Peterson springs to mind. Apparently, he was utterly clueless at setup and development and just drove everything as fast as it could go!

[Mr Dendrite]

paulguitar said:

thegreenhell said:

Conversely, some of the fastest drivers were known to be sh!t at setting up a car and giving feedback, but they're fast so they get to race.

Ronnie Peterson springs to mind. Apparently, he was utterly clueless at setup and development and just drove everything as fast as it could go!

There was a good piece on Sky the other year with Anthony Davidson in the Mercedes Simulator, with the engineers describing how effective his feedback was and how well he could identify the changes in set up. Didn’t really set F1 alight but clearly respected for his development skills.

Edited by Mr Dendrite on Wednesday 8th July 14:09

[Mr Dendrite]

ash73 said:

One limitation is what suits one driver won't suit another. There are some changes that just make the car faster, but others are quite specific to the driver.

I found this in online racing, I use unusual setups which other people hate, and sometimes they accuse me of cheating if they can't set the same times with them; so I've given up sharing them!

Another limitation of course is what works in the sim might not work at the track. And these days the guy driving in the sim doesn't get to drive the car on track.

It would be interesting to know which current drivers give the best feedback. I guess we'll find out when people publish books in the future.

It’s worth finding on you tube and watching. It’s not about what suited his driving style, it was his ability to do two things 1) He could very precisely describe what effect the changes had on the car and even more impressive was 2) when They were calibrating him at the start of a session he could tell from the feel of the simulator what change they had made. I guess that is what makes a good development driver. As I say well worth watching.

[Dermot O'Logical]

paulguitar said:

thegreenhell said:

Conversely, some of the fastest drivers were known to be sh!t at setting up a car and giving feedback, but they're fast so they get to race.

Ronnie Peterson springs to mind. Apparently, he was utterly clueless at setup and development and just drove everything as fast as it could go!

Peterson would frustrate the hell out of Jacky Ickx when they were at Lotus together. Ronnie would, as you say, lose his way on setup, so his mechanics (they had mechanics then, not engineers) would put Ickx's settings on Ronnie's car, and Superswede would immediately go faster than Ickx.

[TheDeuce]

McLaren in group hug/facemask fail celebration: https://youtu.be/z9nFosoNyJ8?t=1015

I suppose it was asking a bit much expect the race team to acknowledge the podium with a polite nod

[Deesee]

Mr Dendrite said:

paulguitar said:

thegreenhell said:

Conversely, some of the fastest drivers were known to be sh!t at setting up a car and giving feedback, but they're fast so they get to race.

Ronnie Peterson springs to mind. Apparently, he was utterly clueless at setup and development and just drove everything as fast as it could go!

There was a good piece on Sky the other year with Anthony Davidson in the Mercedes Simulator, with the engineers describing how effective his feedback was and how well he could identify the changes in set up. Didn’t really set F1 alight but clearly respected for his development skills.

Edited by Mr Dendrite on Wednesday 8th July 14:09

It was the Super Aguri engineers that can up with the double diffuser in 2008/2009 from a team the folded in to Honda that in its self fold, (them they went to Toyota) in another world Ant may have been world champion in 2009 the concept was really that good..

Technically he’s the one to go to on sky sports..

He shines every time they do a sky pad extra on Twitter/You Tube.

[BigBen]

Deesee said:

It was the Super Aguri engineers that can up with the double diffuser in 2008/2009 from a team the folded in to Honda that in its self fold, (them they went to Toyota) in another world Ant may have been world champion in 2009 the concept was really that good..

Technically he’s the one to go to on sky sports..

He shines every time they do a sky pad extra on Twitter/You Tube.

Williams and Toyota also had double diffusers that season, suggesting the implementation also mattered. That said Ant used to put in some impressive Friday practice times in the Honda.

[DanielSan]

BigBen said:

Deesee said:

It was the Super Aguri engineers that can up with the double diffuser in 2008/2009 from a team the folded in to Honda that in its self fold, (them they went to Toyota) in another world Ant may have been world champion in 2009 the concept was really that good..

Technically he’s the one to go to on sky sports..

He shines every time they do a sky pad extra on Twitter/You Tube.

Williams and Toyota also had double diffusers that season, suggesting the implementation also mattered. That said Ant used to put in some impressive Friday practice times in the Honda.

He never did too badly in a Super Aguri, unfortunately for him he never got a real chance in another car, his speed in WEC is proof of how good a racing driver he is. He deserved a better crack in F1 that he got.

[Deesee]

No Changes to the track for this week, other than the paint job on the pit wall, Rolex to Pirelli, all curbs & DRS zones are the same..

Same spec tyres as last week.

Weather looks like they might need an ARK on Saturday.. (mixed up grid yippee)

https://www.myweather2.com/Motor-Racing/Austria/A1...

Cooler conditions from last week due on Sunday.

[Leithen]

Deesee said:

No Changes to the track for this week, other than the paint job on the pit wall, Rolex to Pirelli, all curbs & DRS zones are the same..

Same spec tyres as last week.

Weather looks like they might need an ARK on Saturday.. (mixed up grid yippee)

https://www.myweather2.com/Motor-Racing/Austria/A1...

Cooler conditions from last week due on Sunday.

So Ferrari's request for restoring all the curbs was refused?

[Oilchange]

Wet qually and race would be great

[Deesee]

Leithen said:

Deesee said:

No Changes to the track for this week, other than the paint job on the pit wall, Rolex to Pirelli, all curbs & DRS zones are the same..

Same spec tyres as last week.

Weather looks like they might need an ARK on Saturday.. (mixed up grid yippee)

https://www.myweather2.com/Motor-Racing/Austria/A1...

Cooler conditions from last week due on Sunday.

So Ferrari's request for restoring all the curbs was refused?

The FIA have confirmed no changes (at present), and Ferrari have bought forward the entire upgrade programme to this weekend rather than next (makes sense to test the upgrade on a track were that ran the previous week).

George Russell has a complete PU change, although I think we may see a few more on Friday.

& Red Bull have confirmed a change in the turbocharger, that previously gave an advantage at altitude in the last few seasons, it's a more traditional layout, that they hope will be more competitive at the majority of the tracks.

[Derek Smith]

Deesee said:

The FIA have confirmed no changes (at present), and Ferrari have bought forward the entire upgrade programme to this weekend rather than next (makes sense to test the upgrade on a track were that ran the previous week).

George Russell has a complete PU change, although I think we may see a few more on Friday.

& Red Bull have confirmed a change in the turbocharger, that previously gave an advantage at altitude in the last few seasons, it's a more traditional layout, that they hope will be more competitive at the majority of the tracks.

Didn't the Ferrari CEO contradict Binotto regarding the full upgrade? It seems the unthinkable - Ferrari right hand and left hand having no idea what the other is doing - might be going on. Who'd have thought?

[TheDeuce]

Derek Smith said:

Didn't the Ferrari CEO contradict Binotto regarding the full upgrade? It seems the unthinkable - Ferrari right hand and left hand having no idea what the other is doing - might be going on. Who'd have thought?

Yes he did. Although I think it's a case of one hand taking control of the other in this instance.

[JonChalk]

Deesee said:

Same spec tyres as last week.

Wasn't the original position that they would run a different combination this week?

[Deesee]

JonChalk said:

Deesee said:

Same spec tyres as last week.

Wasn't the original position that they would run a different combination this week?

They are doing that for silverstone..

[Deesee]

Derek Smith said:

Didn't the Ferrari CEO contradict Binotto regarding the full upgrade? It seems the unthinkable - Ferrari right hand and left hand having no idea what the other is doing - might be going on. Who'd have thought?

Strange one eh..

All the boxes arrived and they’ve been putting the cars together this morning.

[TheDeuce]

Deesee said:

Strange one eh..

All the boxes arrived and they’ve been putting the cars together this morning.

I am quite interested to see what level of improvment they can find. It's unusual to have a direct comparison at the same track.

Although it's still forecast to rain during quali - so that would scupper any fair comparison (but I'd be happy to have it rain anyways )