Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)
Discussion
CoolHands said:
Sounds like he had a wasted year with his previous engineering team. Perhaps it s taken year to get Ferrari to listen to him.
In his first year at the new team, despite some conflicts within the team, he was nearly up there with the far younger CLC who's been there for years. His first year was good, by any normal measure. Not that Lewis tends to receive normal judgement all the time!But this season, there's nothing in it so far and I wouldn't be at all surprised to a see a restored Lewis get better and better as the car improves. I hope they listen to his input!
Ste-EVo said:
Here's hoping we see a LH win this season.
Great to see him jelling much more with the car and team this season. I cant help but think he should have stayed with Merc, I thought that at the time and more so now. I can imagine he will feel the same at times.
When the first rumours started of Hamilton going to Ferrari, I said (probably on this forum) that he would never fall for Ferrari’s promises of a championship winning car. Obviously I was wrong.Great to see him jelling much more with the car and team this season. I cant help but think he should have stayed with Merc, I thought that at the time and more so now. I can imagine he will feel the same at times.
In the last four and a half decades, the only really successful period for Ferrari was the Todt/Brawn era. Schumacher was the main beneficiary, but the team culture helped Räikkönen (and almost Massa as well) to a championship win.
Apart from the ‘romance’ of Ferrari, I can’t see why Hamilton thought that was a better potential future.
SpudLink said:
Ste-EVo said:
Here's hoping we see a LH win this season.
Great to see him jelling much more with the car and team this season. I cant help but think he should have stayed with Merc, I thought that at the time and more so now. I can imagine he will feel the same at times.
When the first rumours started of Hamilton going to Ferrari, I said (probably on this forum) that he would never fall for Ferrari s promises of a championship winning car. Obviously I was wrong.Great to see him jelling much more with the car and team this season. I cant help but think he should have stayed with Merc, I thought that at the time and more so now. I can imagine he will feel the same at times.
In the last four and a half decades, the only really successful period for Ferrari was the Todt/Brawn era. Schumacher was the main beneficiary, but the team culture helped Räikkönen (and almost Massa as well) to a championship win.
Apart from the romance of Ferrari, I can t see why Hamilton thought that was a better potential future.
Heathwood said:
SpudLink said:
Ste-EVo said:
Here's hoping we see a LH win this season.
Great to see him jelling much more with the car and team this season. I cant help but think he should have stayed with Merc, I thought that at the time and more so now. I can imagine he will feel the same at times.
When the first rumours started of Hamilton going to Ferrari, I said (probably on this forum) that he would never fall for Ferrari s promises of a championship winning car. Obviously I was wrong.Great to see him jelling much more with the car and team this season. I cant help but think he should have stayed with Merc, I thought that at the time and more so now. I can imagine he will feel the same at times.
In the last four and a half decades, the only really successful period for Ferrari was the Todt/Brawn era. Schumacher was the main beneficiary, but the team culture helped Räikkönen (and almost Massa as well) to a championship win.
Apart from the romance of Ferrari, I can t see why Hamilton thought that was a better potential future.
Ste-EVo said:
Great to see him jelling much more with the car and team this season. I cant help but think he should have stayed with Merc, I thought that at the time and more so now. I can imagine he will feel the same at times.
You make it sound like he had a choice. A common misconception.Lewis announced he was leaving for Ferrari in early 2024. He went on a 2 year deal from 2025, with an option on his side for 2027. That means, should he choose, he would be racing until 2027.
At Mercedes, he had 2024 and 2025 remaining on his deal, with an option on Mercedes' side for 2026.
That means he could very feasibly have been looking for another seat for 2026, in the first year of the new rules when who knows who was going to be ahead. In addition, Mercedes were making huge hype about Antonelli even then and the Verstappen unsettlement at Red Bull was beginning too.
So, it was a case of stay at Mercedes and risk being outed for a younger model in '26 - a very plausible risk.
Or move to Ferrari and be guaranteed a seat for 2 extra years until end of '27.
It was a no-brainer.
Muzzer79 said:
Ste-EVo said:
Great to see him jelling much more with the car and team this season. I cant help but think he should have stayed with Merc, I thought that at the time and more so now. I can imagine he will feel the same at times.
You make it sound like he had a choice. A common misconception.Lewis announced he was leaving for Ferrari in early 2024. He went on a 2 year deal from 2025, with an option on his side for 2027. That means, should he choose, he would be racing until 2027.
At Mercedes, he had 2024 and 2025 remaining on his deal, with an option on Mercedes' side for 2026.
That means he could very feasibly have been looking for another seat for 2026, in the first year of the new rules when who knows who was going to be ahead. In addition, Mercedes were making huge hype about Antonelli even then and the Verstappen unsettlement at Red Bull was beginning too.
So, it was a case of stay at Mercedes and risk being outed for a younger model in '26 - a very plausible risk.
Or move to Ferrari and be guaranteed a seat for 2 extra years until end of '27.
It was a no-brainer.
He must have noticed that even when Ferrari have the best car, they can never do anything useful with, so I assume he made peace with that on some way.
If he had stayed at Merc could he have beaten off the younger competition now...? Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if in that reality he managed it, but I wouldn't bet my house on it anymore! Although TBF he's kept pace with CLC so far this season and appears he's getting his mojo back. If he beats CLC this year, that could help illustrate what could have been had he stayed at Merc
TheDeuce said:
Muzzer79 said:
Ste-EVo said:
Great to see him jelling much more with the car and team this season. I cant help but think he should have stayed with Merc, I thought that at the time and more so now. I can imagine he will feel the same at times.
You make it sound like he had a choice. A common misconception.Lewis announced he was leaving for Ferrari in early 2024. He went on a 2 year deal from 2025, with an option on his side for 2027. That means, should he choose, he would be racing until 2027.
At Mercedes, he had 2024 and 2025 remaining on his deal, with an option on Mercedes' side for 2026.
That means he could very feasibly have been looking for another seat for 2026, in the first year of the new rules when who knows who was going to be ahead. In addition, Mercedes were making huge hype about Antonelli even then and the Verstappen unsettlement at Red Bull was beginning too.
So, it was a case of stay at Mercedes and risk being outed for a younger model in '26 - a very plausible risk.
Or move to Ferrari and be guaranteed a seat for 2 extra years until end of '27.
It was a no-brainer.
He must have noticed that even when Ferrari have the best car, they can never do anything useful with, so I assume he made peace with that on some way.
If he had stayed at Merc could he have beaten off the younger competition now...? Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if in that reality he managed it, but I wouldn't bet my house on it anymore! Although TBF he's kept pace with CLC so far this season and appears he's getting his mojo back. If he beats CLC this year, that could help illustrate what could have been had he stayed at Merc
TheDeuce said:
Muzzer79 said:
Ste-EVo said:
Great to see him jelling much more with the car and team this season. I cant help but think he should have stayed with Merc, I thought that at the time and more so now. I can imagine he will feel the same at times.
You make it sound like he had a choice. A common misconception.Lewis announced he was leaving for Ferrari in early 2024. He went on a 2 year deal from 2025, with an option on his side for 2027. That means, should he choose, he would be racing until 2027.
At Mercedes, he had 2024 and 2025 remaining on his deal, with an option on Mercedes' side for 2026.
That means he could very feasibly have been looking for another seat for 2026, in the first year of the new rules when who knows who was going to be ahead. In addition, Mercedes were making huge hype about Antonelli even then and the Verstappen unsettlement at Red Bull was beginning too.
So, it was a case of stay at Mercedes and risk being outed for a younger model in '26 - a very plausible risk.
Or move to Ferrari and be guaranteed a seat for 2 extra years until end of '27.
It was a no-brainer.
He must have noticed that even when Ferrari have the best car, they can never do anything useful with, so I assume he made peace with that on some way.
If he had stayed at Merc could he have beaten off the younger competition now...? Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if in that reality he managed it, but I wouldn't bet my house on it anymore! Although TBF he's kept pace with CLC so far this season and appears he's getting his mojo back. If he beats CLC this year, that could help illustrate what could have been had he stayed at Merc
Russell was in and Antonelli/Verstappen were looming. Mercedes were treating him more or less like just another employee.
They were looking to the future. They knew they had the peak out of him.
If you don't think they would be so ruthless, we have a perfect example of this if we rewind back to 2006 when Montezemelo over-ruled Todt and ejected what was the most successful grand prix driver of all time from Ferrari when he was 'only' 37 to replace him with Kimi Raikkonen. Hamilton is 41.
Muzzer79 said:
TheDeuce said:
Muzzer79 said:
Ste-EVo said:
Great to see him jelling much more with the car and team this season. I cant help but think he should have stayed with Merc, I thought that at the time and more so now. I can imagine he will feel the same at times.
You make it sound like he had a choice. A common misconception.Lewis announced he was leaving for Ferrari in early 2024. He went on a 2 year deal from 2025, with an option on his side for 2027. That means, should he choose, he would be racing until 2027.
At Mercedes, he had 2024 and 2025 remaining on his deal, with an option on Mercedes' side for 2026.
That means he could very feasibly have been looking for another seat for 2026, in the first year of the new rules when who knows who was going to be ahead. In addition, Mercedes were making huge hype about Antonelli even then and the Verstappen unsettlement at Red Bull was beginning too.
So, it was a case of stay at Mercedes and risk being outed for a younger model in '26 - a very plausible risk.
Or move to Ferrari and be guaranteed a seat for 2 extra years until end of '27.
It was a no-brainer.
He must have noticed that even when Ferrari have the best car, they can never do anything useful with, so I assume he made peace with that on some way.
If he had stayed at Merc could he have beaten off the younger competition now...? Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if in that reality he managed it, but I wouldn't bet my house on it anymore! Although TBF he's kept pace with CLC so far this season and appears he's getting his mojo back. If he beats CLC this year, that could help illustrate what could have been had he stayed at Merc
Russell was in and Antonelli/Verstappen were looming. Mercedes were treating him more or less like just another employee.
They were looking to the future. They knew they had the peak out of him.
If you don't think they would be so ruthless, we have a perfect example of this if we rewind back to 2006 when Montezemelo over-ruled Todt and ejected what was the most successful grand prix driver of all time from Ferrari when he was 'only' 37 to replace him with Kimi Raikkonen. Hamilton is 41.
We simply don't know if Lewis could have kept his seat at Merc upto and including this season.
Muzzer79 said:
You make it sound like he had a choice. A common misconception.
Lewis announced he was leaving for Ferrari in early 2024. He went on a 2 year deal from 2025, with an option on his side for 2027. That means, should he choose, he would be racing until 2027.
At Mercedes, he had 2024 and 2025 remaining on his deal, with an option on Mercedes' side for 2026.
That means he could very feasibly have been looking for another seat for 2026, in the first year of the new rules when who knows who was going to be ahead. In addition, Mercedes were making huge hype about Antonelli even then and the Verstappen unsettlement at Red Bull was beginning too.
So, it was a case of stay at Mercedes and risk being outed for a younger model in '26 - a very plausible risk.
Or move to Ferrari and be guaranteed a seat for 2 extra years until end of '27.
It was a no-brainer.
This, plus Lewis also made it clear it was a dream of his to drive for Ferrari in F1, so absolutely a no-brainer.Lewis announced he was leaving for Ferrari in early 2024. He went on a 2 year deal from 2025, with an option on his side for 2027. That means, should he choose, he would be racing until 2027.
At Mercedes, he had 2024 and 2025 remaining on his deal, with an option on Mercedes' side for 2026.
That means he could very feasibly have been looking for another seat for 2026, in the first year of the new rules when who knows who was going to be ahead. In addition, Mercedes were making huge hype about Antonelli even then and the Verstappen unsettlement at Red Bull was beginning too.
So, it was a case of stay at Mercedes and risk being outed for a younger model in '26 - a very plausible risk.
Or move to Ferrari and be guaranteed a seat for 2 extra years until end of '27.
It was a no-brainer.
Arrivalist said:
Jeez, we had this very same discussion when he decided to join Ferrari.
For those saying it is/was a bad decision - put yourself in the same situation and honestly say you d not join Ferrari.
As I said back then and still feel today, the one thing I can't make sense of that he must have known that however good their next cars might be, and however good he might be, that the team always fails to make it count and win over a season. So in that sense, unless a huge change was expected, it does still feel like he was essentially choosing a route that would prevent any likelihood of another world title.For those saying it is/was a bad decision - put yourself in the same situation and honestly say you d not join Ferrari.
But perhaps Lewis simply doesn't think that way, he seems very much driven by faith and belief - logic might not be the chief decision maker. He obviously wanted to go there, so he was right to go there on that basis alone.
TheDeuce said:
As I said back then and still feel today, the one thing I can't make sense of that he must have known that however good their next cars might be, and however good he might be, that the team always fails to make it count and win over a season. So in that sense, unless a huge change was expected, it does still feel like he was essentially choosing a route that would prevent any likelihood of another world title.
But perhaps Lewis simply doesn't think that way, he seems very much driven by faith and belief - logic might not be the chief decision maker. He obviously wanted to go there, so he was right to go there on that basis alone.
I dare say the mindset of champion types is that of “I can save her” and they will be the immortal heroes for bringing the silverware back to Ferrari.But perhaps Lewis simply doesn't think that way, he seems very much driven by faith and belief - logic might not be the chief decision maker. He obviously wanted to go there, so he was right to go there on that basis alone.
Alonso nearly managed it but for a very wide Russian roadblock. Ham will to some degree believe he could do the same, despite all prior history.
TheDeuce said:
As I said back then and still feel today, the one thing I can't make sense of that he must have known that however good their next cars might be, and however good he might be, that the team always fails to make it count and win over a season. So in that sense, unless a huge change was expected, it does still feel like he was essentially choosing a route that would prevent any likelihood of another world title.
But perhaps Lewis simply doesn't think that way, he seems very much driven by faith and belief - logic might not be the chief decision maker. He obviously wanted to go there, so he was right to go there on that basis alone.
I think Fred Vasseur was part of the reasoning, Fred was his team principal when he won the GP2 title. I'm sure for both of them there is an element of 'can we do it again?'But perhaps Lewis simply doesn't think that way, he seems very much driven by faith and belief - logic might not be the chief decision maker. He obviously wanted to go there, so he was right to go there on that basis alone.
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