Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)

Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)

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majordad

3,600 posts

196 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
I find his salutes offensive, as I do Nazi salutes. Same with the slogans and logos. He’s promoting just one side of the issue, and ignoring the looting and violence.

nickfrog

20,871 posts

216 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
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Exige77 said:
Having the very best driver giving a different message is divisive.

It’s division between people that racism is all about.

If the people fighting racism can’t agree what message does it send out ?
Or it's a nuanced reflection of diversity and the plurality of opinions in a non-binary world. I quite like it actually, but I didn't realise how well thought out the message is overall until you pointed this out.

Exige77

6,518 posts

190 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
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ch37 said:
Exige77 said:
If you want to know or support Lewis’s political views, you can follow him on Instagram / Twitter et al. He is absolutely entitled to what ever views he might have on any subject.

I don’t want to see a sporting event used as a political vehicle regardless of the politics being good / bad / noble or otherwise.

How do you feel about the '95 Rugby World Cup Final?
I don’t watch Rugby, sorry.

I thought this was an F1 forum ?

paulguitar

23,104 posts

112 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
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majordad said:
I find his salutes offensive, as I do Nazi salutes.
This has to be a wind-up?




Muzzer79

9,806 posts

186 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
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Exige77 said:
nickfrog said:
I think he enhances the initiative, which he is also a part of.

I am sorry to hear it affects your enjoyment of the races. Personally I hardly notice it, it's a few seconds across a few hours.
I think many of the F1 drivers are role models for many of the youngsters. Seeing them “all” wearing the same “we race as one” masks / T-shirts / stickers is a much more powerful and United message for all.

Having the very best driver giving a different message is divisive.

It’s division between people that racism is all about.

If the people fighting racism can’t agree what message does it send out ?

Anyway, can’t wait to see Lewis bag the next pot at the weekend.
I can't personally see how Lewis' messages about racial equality differ from the "We Race as One" message from the FIA about racial equality.



MarkwG

4,811 posts

188 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
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Exige77 said:
nickfrog said:
Exige77 said:
If you want to know or support Lewis’s political views, you can follow him on Instagram / Twitter et al. He is absolutely entitled to what ever views he might have on any subject.

I don’t want to see a sporting event used as a political vehicle regardless of the politics being good / bad / noble or otherwise.
Promoting racial equality is hardly political. It's just common sense. Sport is a brilliant platform for it. Even football is leading the way.
F1 as a whole have a “We race as one” initiative which is being overshadowed / diluted by Lewis’s actions.

One of the problems with racism is it divisive. Instead of F1 speaking with “one voice”, Lewis is separating himself from it.

That’s why I think it’s better for Lewis to pursue his causes in his own time.
I found that contradictory: he's the driver most emblematic of the issue, he's not separating from it, he's the figurehead. Both Mercedes & the FIA are on the record as being in support of his actions, therefore I suspect he'd flagged his intentions beforehand at each stage - in which case, that is F1 speaking with "one voice".

ch37

10,642 posts

220 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
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Exige77 said:
I don’t watch Rugby, sorry.

I thought this was an F1 forum ?
You said "sporting event". I don't watch rugby either but the 95 final is a rather famous example of politics and sport mixing and arguably changing the course of history in a country (at the very least, contributing to it).

Muzzer79

9,806 posts

186 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
majordad said:
I find his salutes offensive, as I do Nazi salutes. Same with the slogans and logos. He’s promoting just one side of the issue, and ignoring the looting and violence.
Curious to hear what you think the other side of the racial equality "issue" is?

p1stonhead

25,489 posts

166 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
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paulguitar said:
majordad said:
I find his salutes offensive, as I do Nazi salutes.
This has to be a wind-up?
99.9% sure it is.

sparta6

3,689 posts

99 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
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HighwayStar said:
sparta6 said:
HighwayStar said:
sparta6 said:
HighwayStar said:
Lol... it’s just hilarious isn’t it, he’s become entertainment. Nothing more.
He leads a more colourful life than a F1 driver! Ohhhkayy.
So F1 drivers have the most colourful lives eh ? hehe

Was that your dream job ? biggrin


Hamilton will be exposed to a whole new world when he retires and no longer in his F1 bubble.
So F1 drivers have the most colourful lives eh ? hehe
I didn’t say they did.

Was that your dream job ? biggrin
Rock star... I play guitar, sadly not Randy Rhodes/Eddie Van Halen level wink
I can confirm that world class guitarists enjoy a far more colourful life than current F1 drivers wink
I think you’d be surprised... compared to the excesses of 70s & 80s world class bands don’t do much at all but, they enjoy the money and the life it gives them. The same as Hamilton.
That's a bit before my time.
But bands we collaborated with of 90's and Noughties were certainly colourful.
That colourful baton has since been passed onto the big name DJ's.
It was all bouncing along nicely until China got involved.





StevieBee

12,794 posts

254 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
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Exige77 said:
p1stonhead said:
Why?
If you want to know or support Lewis’s political views, you can follow him on Instagram / Twitter et al. He is absolutely entitled to what ever views he might have on any subject.

I don’t want to see a sporting event used as a political vehicle regardless of the politics being good / bad / noble or otherwise.
There's a difference between political views (on which I agree with you) and 'campaigning' which is what's happening here.

Would Marcus Rashford have been better off keeping his views on school meals to social media?

Would Jamie Oliver's campaign against the Turkey Twizzler gathered as much pace if he kept his thoughts to himself?

Would Bob Geldof had mustered as much support if he didn't articulate his views via the media?



Sandpit Steve

9,885 posts

73 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
nickfrog said:
Exige77 said:
If you want to know or support Lewis’s political views, you can follow him on Instagram / Twitter et al. He is absolutely entitled to what ever views he might have on any subject.

I don’t want to see a sporting event used as a political vehicle regardless of the politics being good / bad / noble or otherwise.
Promoting racial equality is hardly political. It's just common sense. Sport is a brilliant platform for it. Even football is leading the way.
Except that Black Lives Matter have just registered as a political party in the UK, which may complicate things somewhat.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/10/26/bl...

(Personally I think Lewis has been good for the sport, with the exception of one t-shirt on the podium which overstepped the line)

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
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spunkytherabbit said:
Exige77 said:
It’s an individual’s choice except when his individual fellow F1 drivers don’t give his cause the right amount of attention ?

I write as one of “Lewis the racing driver’s” greatest admirers.

As said previously by another poster, it’s wall to wall politics on the news everyday, I don’t want it to see it on the sporting stage.

I do wish Lewis would stick to the racing on a race weekend. He has endless opportunities on social media to push his causes which is absolutely fine. He has every right to use his fame in which ever way he chooses in his own time.
What is worse though for fans? F1 coverage dominated as much by Bernie and Max dragging the sport through the mud, about Max Mosely abusing his position of power, pursuing vendettas etc, Bernie's shady deals and wildly inappropriate comments? Or current coverage that is accepting that sport in general is no longer operating in a bubble like it used to? F1 especially.
Nobody ever seemed to get as worked up about that, and it's a largely forgotten/undiscussed part of F1 history.

Bernie, Max and Flavio have done more to drag F1's name through the mud than Lewis could manage in ten lifetimes. Maybe they were just loveable, misunderstood rogues?

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
Exige77 said:
p1stonhead said:
Why?
If you want to know or support Lewis’s political views, you can follow him on Instagram / Twitter et al. He is absolutely entitled to what ever views he might have on any subject.

I don’t want to see a sporting event used as a political vehicle regardless of the politics being good / bad / noble or otherwise.
There's a difference between political views (on which I agree with you) and 'campaigning' which is what's happening here.

Would Marcus Rashford have been better off keeping his views on school meals to social media?

Would Jamie Oliver's campaign against the Turkey Twizzler gathered as much pace if he kept his thoughts to himself?

Would Bob Geldof had mustered as much support if he didn't articulate his views via the media?
Should Lenny Henry have just stuck to being funny and not highlighted the awkward truths about famine in Africa?

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
I can't personally see how Lewis' messages about racial equality differ from the "We Race as One" message from the FIA about racial equality.
What you're seeing is people who want to say "All Lives Matter", but don't have the courage in their convictions.

Instead they look at a few loonies (the BLM political movement) who have adopted the three words used by Lewis to describe a very different goal. They then go and draw a wonky line between the two, and use it as a way to vent their anger.

angrymoby

2,605 posts

177 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Sandpit Steve said:
Except that Black Lives Matter have just registered as a political party in the UK, which may complicate things somewhat.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/10/26/bl...

(Personally I think Lewis has been good for the sport, with the exception of one t-shirt on the podium which overstepped the line)
or have they? (apologies for the DM link)...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8880583/B...

Exige77

6,518 posts

190 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
C70R said:
Should Lenny Henry have just stuck to being funny and not highlighted the awkward truths about famine in Africa?
If Lenny had started promoting politics during one of his original TV programmes it would have been the same issue.

Lenny promoting his politics in his own time is absolutely fine by me. He’s done a lot of good work.

My issue is Lewis pushing his politics during a “race weekend”.

spunkytherabbit

442 posts

179 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
Exige77 said:
p1stonhead said:
Why?
If you want to know or support Lewis’s political views, you can follow him on Instagram / Twitter et al. He is absolutely entitled to what ever views he might have on any subject.

I don’t want to see a sporting event used as a political vehicle regardless of the politics being good / bad / noble or otherwise.
There's a difference between political views (on which I agree with you) and 'campaigning' which is what's happening here.

Would Marcus Rashford have been better off keeping his views on school meals to social media?

Would Jamie Oliver's campaign against the Turkey Twizzler gathered as much pace if he kept his thoughts to himself?

Would Bob Geldof had mustered as much support if he didn't articulate his views via the media?
I'd argue a firm no. I'd also argue that Live Aid, and Geldof specifically, did the most for people being able to use music events to promote worthy causes to the mainstream consumer. Which comes back to my point of the insular bubble of F1 being burst, that coverage will now reflect the influence of the world outside and that we as the viewer have to accept that, learn to live with it (and hopefully still enjoy). Or disengage and limit our exposure and consumption. Interesting in those examples that I didn't know who Marcus Rashford was until the school meals campaign, that I thought (and still think) Jamie Oliver is really annoying and still think Geldof a bell end. But I have no problem acknowledging just what they achieved.

Which for each of their given issues were significant. Having worked in local authority funding I can tell you, changing the mindset on quality standards in school meals and the free school meals campaign, are both very significant things Oliver and Rashford have done.

I know the come back, that Rashford kept his campaign off the pitch, but he HAS used his position and job and exposure to further the cause. Had he been given air time during match coverage I'm sure he would have taken it in similar way that Hamilton has, but I only see Hamilton as being a natural extension of 'WeRaceAsOne'. Besides, as someone unaffected by racism, who am I, or many others in similar position, to say this shouldn't be allowed?

BLM is about a human rights issue and it is not the FIA, Mercedes or Hamilton who have politicised it. Or Sky. Has Hamilton picked his words and messaging carefully enough at times? Probably not, but again, who am I, a pasty faced white male to criticise because I saw that message in my F1 coverage? The real world has crashed the F1 party. It's as simple as that and there is no going back. Whether you see that as 'unfortunately' or a progressive thing is with each to know but if it's an issue, that issue should be with the FIA not a person for whom the matter at hand has had a direct impact.

Lets not forget in the not too distant past Spanish fans during testing with blacked up faces, unsavoury banners and making monkey noises.

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Exige77 said:
C70R said:
Should Lenny Henry have just stuck to being funny and not highlighted the awkward truths about famine in Africa?
If Lenny had started promoting politics during one of his original TV programmes it would have been the same issue.
That's really quite sad, and says a lot about you.

mantis84

1,496 posts

162 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
majordad said:
I find his salutes offensive, as I do Nazi salutes. Same with the slogans and logos. He’s promoting just one side of the issue, and ignoring the looting and violence.
What an utterly moronic and ridiculous thing to say. A raised fist to promote a cause fighting racial inequality is as offensive as a Nazi salute? Give your head a wobble you prat.