Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)

[LP670]

paulguitar said:

PhilAsia said:

Just read, "if Lewis had scored 16 more points he would hold 10 legitimate WDCs...!!!"

2007 = 2 points

2016 = 5 points

2021 = 9 points

Incredible to think he was so close...

Yeah. It should definitely be 9, 2007 was the VERY suspicious car failure at the last race, and as well all know he won in 2021 but had the title removed by a mistake. Not bad going.

2007 had some very suspicious data movement from one team to another also.

[paulguitar]

MustangGT said:

paulguitar said:

Yeah. It should definitely be 9, 2007 was the VERY suspicious car failure at the last race, and as well all know he won in 2021 but had the title removed by a mistake. Not bad going.

Hamilton finished 7th in the last race (Brazil). It was China where it was lost, where he was left out on very old tyres, down to the canvas before being called in and he could not get back to the box.

There have been whispers that this was deliberate because a McLaren driver would not be allowed to win the WDC with the McLaren disqualification.

Well, it was both races that caused him to miss out on that title at the end. He only had to finish IIRC 5th in Brazil to take the title, even after losing the win in China due to the team leaving him out on tyres that were on the canvas, but he had a bizarre car failure in Brazil that stranded him for long enough to put him out of contention.

In 2012 Hamilton was asked by Mark Hughes if he knew what had happened a the end of 2007 and said:
“I didn’t know at the time. But I do now. It’s not something I can talk about.”

https://the-race.com/formula-1/the-mysterious-loss...

[PhilAsia]

LP670 said:

paulguitar said:

PhilAsia said:

Just read, "if Lewis had scored 16 more points he would hold 10 legitimate WDCs...!!!"

2007 = 2 points

2016 = 5 points

2021 = 9 points

Incredible to think he was so close...

Yeah. It should definitely be 9, 2007 was the VERY suspicious car failure at the last race, and as well all know he won in 2021 but had the title removed by a mistake. Not bad going.

2007 had some very suspicious data movement from one team to another also.

Hi, LP. Nice to see you chirping in... Yes, the data seemed to suspiciously cause tyre wear down to the canvas in China and a lack of movement from one team with a box full of neutrals in Brazil. You were saying?

[paulguitar]

LP670 said:

2007 had some very suspicious data movement from one team to another also.

If there was indeed a conspiracy to deny Hamilton the 2007 title, presumably Spygate was the reason behind it. Hopefully, we will know one day.

[LP670]

PhilAsia said:

LP670 said:

paulguitar said:

PhilAsia said:

Just read, "if Lewis had scored 16 more points he would hold 10 legitimate WDCs...!!!"

2007 = 2 points

2016 = 5 points

2021 = 9 points

Incredible to think he was so close...

Yeah. It should definitely be 9, 2007 was the VERY suspicious car failure at the last race, and as well all know he won in 2021 but had the title removed by a mistake. Not bad going.

2007 had some very suspicious data movement from one team to another also.

Hi, LP. Nice to see you chirping in... Yes, the data seemed to suspiciously cause tyre wear down to the canvas in China and a lack of movement from one team with a box full of neutrals in Brazil. You were saying?

Ever thought the team might have been under instruction from the FIA to make sure they didn't win the title so purposely left Hamilton out when everyone watching could see there was no rubber left on the rear tyres. Maybe they were hoping for a puncture..... regardless Hamilton's pit lane error did the job in China and the mechanical problem in Brazil probably avoided McLaren faking a bodged pitstop or something. I seem to remember the Sauber's failing scrutineering after that race yet they weren't disqualified and McLaren didn't protest, wonder why.

[PhilAsia]

LP670 said:

PhilAsia said:

LP670 said:

paulguitar said:

PhilAsia said:

Just read, "if Lewis had scored 16 more points he would hold 10 legitimate WDCs...!!!"

2007 = 2 points

2016 = 5 points

2021 = 9 points

Incredible to think he was so close...

Yeah. It should definitely be 9, 2007 was the VERY suspicious car failure at the last race, and as well all know he won in 2021 but had the title removed by a mistake. Not bad going.

2007 had some very suspicious data movement from one team to another also.

Hi, LP. Nice to see you chirping in... Yes, the data seemed to suspiciously cause tyre wear down to the canvas in China and a lack of movement from one team with a box full of neutrals in Brazil. You were saying?

Ever thought the team might have been under instruction from the FIA to make sure they didn't win the title so purposely left Hamilton out when everyone watching could see there was no rubber left on the rear tyres. Maybe they were hoping for a puncture..... regardless Hamilton's pit lane error did the job in China and the mechanical problem in Brazil probably avoided McLaren faking a bodged pitstop or something. I seem to remember the Sauber's failing scrutineering after that race yet they weren't disqualified and McLaren didn't protest, wonder why.

Of course we know why... Well, 99.999999999% certain at the time of the two "odd" situations anyway, and since then the Lewis comment pretty much seals it...

[LP670]

PhilAsia said:

LP670 said:

PhilAsia said:

LP670 said:

paulguitar said:

PhilAsia said:

Just read, "if Lewis had scored 16 more points he would hold 10 legitimate WDCs...!!!"

2007 = 2 points

2016 = 5 points

2021 = 9 points

Incredible to think he was so close...

Yeah. It should definitely be 9, 2007 was the VERY suspicious car failure at the last race, and as well all know he won in 2021 but had the title removed by a mistake. Not bad going.

2007 had some very suspicious data movement from one team to another also.

Hi, LP. Nice to see you chirping in... Yes, the data seemed to suspiciously cause tyre wear down to the canvas in China and a lack of movement from one team with a box full of neutrals in Brazil. You were saying?

Ever thought the team might have been under instruction from the FIA to make sure they didn't win the title so purposely left Hamilton out when everyone watching could see there was no rubber left on the rear tyres. Maybe they were hoping for a puncture..... regardless Hamilton's pit lane error did the job in China and the mechanical problem in Brazil probably avoided McLaren faking a bodged pitstop or something. I seem to remember the Sauber's failing scrutineering after that race yet they weren't disqualified and McLaren didn't protest, wonder why.

Of course we know why... Well, 99.999999999% certain at the time of the two "odd" situations anyway, and since then the Lewis comment pretty much seals it...

So would it have been fair for McLaren and Hamilton to win that title?

[RB Will]

In other news, seems there is a bit of a backlash online about Hamilton winning best British driver of the year at the autosport awards.

Seems hard to argue he deserves it more than George or Lando, never mind Brit drivers in lesser championships that have done lots of winning.

[Orchardab]

LP670 said:

PhilAsia said:

LP670 said:

PhilAsia said:

LP670 said:

paulguitar said:

PhilAsia said:

Just read, "if Lewis had scored 16 more points he would hold 10 legitimate WDCs...!!!"

2007 = 2 points

2016 = 5 points

2021 = 9 points

Incredible to think he was so close...

Yeah. It should definitely be 9, 2007 was the VERY suspicious car failure at the last race, and as well all know he won in 2021 but had the title removed by a mistake. Not bad going.

2007 had some very suspicious data movement from one team to another also.

Hi, LP. Nice to see you chirping in... Yes, the data seemed to suspiciously cause tyre wear down to the canvas in China and a lack of movement from one team with a box full of neutrals in Brazil. You were saying?

Ever thought the team might have been under instruction from the FIA to make sure they didn't win the title so purposely left Hamilton out when everyone watching could see there was no rubber left on the rear tyres. Maybe they were hoping for a puncture..... regardless Hamilton's pit lane error did the job in China and the mechanical problem in Brazil probably avoided McLaren faking a bodged pitstop or something. I seem to remember the Sauber's failing scrutineering after that race yet they weren't disqualified and McLaren didn't protest, wonder why.

Of course we know why... Well, 99.999999999% certain at the time of the two "odd" situations anyway, and since then the Lewis comment pretty much seals it...

So would it have been fair for McLaren and Hamilton to win that title?

No

[Orchardab]

Orchardab said:

LP670 said:

PhilAsia said:

LP670 said:

PhilAsia said:

LP670 said:

paulguitar said:

PhilAsia said:

Just read, "if Lewis had scored 16 more points he would hold 10 legitimate WDCs...!!!"

2007 = 2 points

2016 = 5 points

2021 = 9 points

Incredible to think he was so close...

Yeah. It should definitely be 9, 2007 was the VERY suspicious car failure at the last race, and as well all know he won in 2021 but had the title removed by a mistake. Not bad going.

2007 had some very suspicious data movement from one team to another also.

Hi, LP. Nice to see you chirping in... Yes, the data seemed to suspiciously cause tyre wear down to the canvas in China and a lack of movement from one team with a box full of neutrals in Brazil. You were saying?

Ever thought the team might have been under instruction from the FIA to make sure they didn't win the title so purposely left Hamilton out when everyone watching could see there was no rubber left on the rear tyres. Maybe they were hoping for a puncture..... regardless Hamilton's pit lane error did the job in China and the mechanical problem in Brazil probably avoided McLaren faking a bodged pitstop or something. I seem to remember the Sauber's failing scrutineering after that race yet they weren't disqualified and McLaren didn't protest, wonder why.

Of course we know why... Well, 99.999999999% certain at the time of the two "odd" situations anyway, and since then the Lewis comment pretty much seals it...

So would it have been fair for McLaren and Hamilton to win that title?

No

Plus they benefitted from that Fez data in following seasons.

[Clockwork Cupcake]

Orchardab said:

No

So what was the point of allowing them to compete then? Why fine them a punitive amount instead of docking them a huge amount of points at the start of the season such that they legitimately couldn't win?

Orchardab said:

Plus they benefitted from that Fez data in following seasons.

Allegedly.

Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Tuesday 6th December 23:49

[PhilAsia]

LP670 said:

PhilAsia said:

LP670 said:

PhilAsia said:

LP670 said:

paulguitar said:

PhilAsia said:

Just read, "if Lewis had scored 16 more points he would hold 10 legitimate WDCs...!!!"

2007 = 2 points

2016 = 5 points

2021 = 9 points

Incredible to think he was so close...

Yeah. It should definitely be 9, 2007 was the VERY suspicious car failure at the last race, and as well all know he won in 2021 but had the title removed by a mistake. Not bad going.

2007 had some very suspicious data movement from one team to another also.

Hi, LP. Nice to see you chirping in... Yes, the data seemed to suspiciously cause tyre wear down to the canvas in China and a lack of movement from one team with a box full of neutrals in Brazil. You were saying?

Ever thought the team might have been under instruction from the FIA to make sure they didn't win the title so purposely left Hamilton out when everyone watching could see there was no rubber left on the rear tyres. Maybe they were hoping for a puncture..... regardless Hamilton's pit lane error did the job in China and the mechanical problem in Brazil probably avoided McLaren faking a bodged pitstop or something. I seem to remember the Sauber's failing scrutineering after that race yet they weren't disqualified and McLaren didn't protest, wonder why.

Of course we know why... Well, 99.999999999% certain at the time of the two "odd" situations anyway, and since then the Lewis comment pretty much seals it...

So would it have been fair for McLaren and Hamilton to win that title?

No, it would not.

Was the FIA's demand to hobble Lewis' fair?

[Teddy Lop]

Orchardab said:

Plus they benefitted from that Fez data in following seasons.

TBF, the FIA, under the direction of max "Ron Dennis bummed my mum and I hate him" Mosely, undertook a forensic examination of McLaren's entire operation and found no trace of the Ferrari dossier info in use or existence...

Is there new evidence you have that you wish to share with us?

[GiantCardboardPlato]

RB Will said:

In other news, seems there is a bit of a backlash online about Hamilton winning best British driver of the year at the autosport awards.

Seems hard to argue he deserves it more than George or Lando, never mind Brit drivers in lesser championships that have done lots of winning.

He clearly did a better job than Russell, i find that a rather easy argument to make. The case is much less clear cut for Norris or drivers in other series.

Maybe we need an AI to work it out for us.

[GiantCardboardPlato]

LP670 said:

2007 had some very suspicious data movement from one team to another also.

Are yoiu talking about the plans and data about McLaren’s car that were found on the servers of the Renault team?

NYtimes said:

Renault, the FIA said in a statement, had been charged with having "unauthorized possession of documents and confidential information belonging to Vodafone McLaren Mercedes, including, but not limited to the layout and critical dimensions of the McLaren F1 car, together with details of the McLaren fueling system, gear assembly, oil cooling system, hydraulic control system and a novel suspension component used by the 2006 and 2007 McLaren F1 cars."

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/sports/08iht-prix.3.8250867.html

Unlike with the Ferrari/mclaren case, where there was no evidence found of Ferrari IP at/in the McLaren team’s offices/factory/assets - it was only held by one McLaren employee.

Edited by GiantCardboardPlato on Wednesday 7th December 08:29

[mw88]

RB Will said:

In other news, seems there is a bit of a backlash online about Hamilton winning best British driver of the year at the autosport awards.

Seems hard to argue he deserves it more than George or Lando, never mind Brit drivers in lesser championships that have done lots of winning.

Not surprising he won to be honest. Aren't the Autosport Awards a public vote, rather than who actually performed better?

[MarkwG]

mw88 said:

RB Will said:

In other news, seems there is a bit of a backlash online about Hamilton winning best British driver of the year at the autosport awards.

Seems hard to argue he deserves it more than George or Lando, never mind Brit drivers in lesser championships that have done lots of winning.

Not surprising he won to be honest. Aren't the Autosport Awards a public vote, rather than who actually performed better?

Yep - it's voted for by Autosport readers - https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/hamilton-wins-au...

[LP670]

PhilAsia said:

No, it would not.

Was the FIA's demand to hobble Lewis' fair?

What other option would they have had other than throwing the team and drivers out of the championship that season? They chose the WWF route and faked a thrilling end to the season.

[paulguitar]

LP670 said:

PhilAsia said:

No, it would not.

Was the FIA's demand to hobble Lewis' fair?

What other option would they have had other than throwing the team and drivers out of the championship that season? They chose the WWF route and faked a thrilling end to the season.

That seems the likely explanation. It's interesting that Hamilton himself was only made aware sometime later, perhaps years later.

[skeeterm5]

GiantCardboardPlato said:

He clearly did a better job than Russell, i find that a rather easy argument to make.

Please make that argument.

I would say that for a first year in a new car and beating LH by quite a margin in the drivers standings by the end of the year makes that an impossible argument to (sensibly) make.

Unless of course you were being ironic and I missed it.