Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)
Discussion
Orchardab said:
I have to agree.
Max / CLC battles have been good and clean.
I don’t understand how Max and CLC leave room for each other, but Ham does not race in the same way.
On observation Ham ruined his chances in the last two races by making rash decisions rather than swing the bigger picture that he had a competitive car.
When CLC and Ham race though, there are also no issues. So perhaps it’s a ham/max thing.Max / CLC battles have been good and clean.
I don’t understand how Max and CLC leave room for each other, but Ham does not race in the same way.
On observation Ham ruined his chances in the last two races by making rash decisions rather than swing the bigger picture that he had a competitive car.
How can we tell whether it’s a HAM problem or a MAX problem?
Well, last year Hamilton went well out of his way/the race circuit to avoid collisions with Max. there were some races in fact, when max spent most of the time trying to generate contact, and it was all avoided.
Indeed, this year - a year when max had raced respectfully throughout, as soon as he was next to hamilton on the track he deliberately crashed in to him (brazil). His take “I knew he would leave no room, so i decided just to go there and if we crash, we crash” that means ‘I decided to crash with him’. (Since he knew there would not be room).
So I think based on observation of the MAX/HAM battles, and the admission of max this year, it’s safe to say where the issue is coming from.
Orchardab said:
I know lots of you guys on here and on the race weekend threads call people “trolls” if there is any anti Ham posts.
Ham got out pointed by Button over 3 seasons at Mac and got beat by Rosberg.
I love Button, think Ham learnt lots about race craft from him…… but come on…. GOAT?… Really?
He idolises Senna
Ham is fast but a real pussy.
Complains about everything….. my car is slow….. I want to stop mid race because I’m so slow….. boo boo, really showed the true colours of a man paid £40m to drive a car and thinks he is better than racing at the back.
Senna, Prost, Schumacher… etc would have brutalised him one on one, just like Max does.
The old greats are no different to Max now.
Do you guys forget what it used to be like?
I'm not sure I've ever seen quite so much nonsense in one post. The relentless objective of attempting to minimize Hamilton's achievements and talent is one of the oddest things I've seen in the social media age. Contrary to the views of current drivers, retired drivers (including the two of the three you mention who are still with us), senior team personnel, and the demonstrably astonishing career everyone (bar, it seems, a few eccentrics) has witnessed over the last couple of decades. Ham got out pointed by Button over 3 seasons at Mac and got beat by Rosberg.
I love Button, think Ham learnt lots about race craft from him…… but come on…. GOAT?… Really?
He idolises Senna
Ham is fast but a real pussy.
Complains about everything….. my car is slow….. I want to stop mid race because I’m so slow….. boo boo, really showed the true colours of a man paid £40m to drive a car and thinks he is better than racing at the back.
Senna, Prost, Schumacher… etc would have brutalised him one on one, just like Max does.
The old greats are no different to Max now.
Do you guys forget what it used to be like?
Perhaps try Twitter where your bizarre spiel will doubtless go down better.
paulguitar said:
Orchardab said:
Ham got out pointed by Button over 3 seasons at Mac
On the planet where we add up the points at the end of each season, (planet earth), Hamilton beat Button 2/1. Orchardab said:
and got beat by Rosberg.
He beat Rosberg 3/1. Looking at what he has done, the numbers and accolades, it is very hard to argue against Hamilton especially in a constructive manner.
That said (and I'm not a Hamilton fan by any means) there are some posts, like that one above which are deliberately just trying to stir and provoke and it's not helpful.
He may have the personality of dead chicken but it's not relevant. He's also had a fair portion of luck, but sometimes you make your own. He did take the risk to go to Merc in the first place, so some would say it's deserved. It can easily swing both ways, look at Alonso, a driver who definitely deserves more than he has got, but that's not to say Ham got where is has through that luck alone.
As for the whole, Max vs Ham thing. They're simply both to blame. Max has admitted to being harder with him because he knows Ham won't give the space he would to other drivers. That is a 2 way street, and they are both responsible and it is inevitable it will continue to happen because the only solution if for one of them to cede ground first which neither will do.
That said (and I'm not a Hamilton fan by any means) there are some posts, like that one above which are deliberately just trying to stir and provoke and it's not helpful.
He may have the personality of dead chicken but it's not relevant. He's also had a fair portion of luck, but sometimes you make your own. He did take the risk to go to Merc in the first place, so some would say it's deserved. It can easily swing both ways, look at Alonso, a driver who definitely deserves more than he has got, but that's not to say Ham got where is has through that luck alone.
As for the whole, Max vs Ham thing. They're simply both to blame. Max has admitted to being harder with him because he knows Ham won't give the space he would to other drivers. That is a 2 way street, and they are both responsible and it is inevitable it will continue to happen because the only solution if for one of them to cede ground first which neither will do.
TikTak said:
Muzzer79 said:
Out of curiousity, do you also think that Max has cruised to this year's title "on auto-pilot"?
Him (Max) having the most dominant F1 car in the last twenty years at his disposal and all that.......
I mean if it was comparable then maybe, but as I said before we need context. He isn't (yet) a 5 time champ, the RB hasn't been totally dominant for many seasons. Him (Max) having the most dominant F1 car in the last twenty years at his disposal and all that.......
This season the RB is undeniably a fast allrounder, but a more dominant car than the Mercs a few years ago? Give me a break.
It would have won more if not for Red Bull’s iffy reliability at the start of the year.
The Ferrari qualified well but let’s not pretend they threw it away or Mercedes were anywhere near them.
Your driver doesn’t break the record for most races won in a season without a dominant car.
The above is an inconvenient truth for those who believe that Mercedes were untouchable for 8 years…..they simply weren’t.
Orchardab said:
I know lots of you guys on here and on the race weekend threads call people “trolls” if there is any anti Ham posts.
Ham got out pointed by Button over 3 seasons at Mac and got beat by Rosberg.
I love Button, think Ham learnt lots about race craft from him…… but come on…. GOAT?… Really?
He idolises Senna
Ham is fast but a real pussy.
Complains about everything….. my car is slow….. I want to stop mid race because I’m so slow….. boo boo, really showed the true colours of a man paid £40m to drive a car and thinks he is better than racing at the back.
Senna, Prost, Schumacher… etc would have brutalised him one on one, just like Max does.
The old greats are no different to Max now.
Do you guys forget what it used to be like?
Your post is attempting to discredit Hamilton by comparing him unfavorably to some of the most successful drivers in the history of Formula 1. It implies that Hamilton is not as talented as the greats of the past and that he is undeserving of the high salary he receives.Ham got out pointed by Button over 3 seasons at Mac and got beat by Rosberg.
I love Button, think Ham learnt lots about race craft from him…… but come on…. GOAT?… Really?
He idolises Senna
Ham is fast but a real pussy.
Complains about everything….. my car is slow….. I want to stop mid race because I’m so slow….. boo boo, really showed the true colours of a man paid £40m to drive a car and thinks he is better than racing at the back.
Senna, Prost, Schumacher… etc would have brutalised him one on one, just like Max does.
The old greats are no different to Max now.
Do you guys forget what it used to be like?
You’re basically attempting to undermine Hamilton's achievements and suggest that he is not worthy of the same level of respect that is accorded to the greats of the past.
But, in your defence, you accepted that certain people get called out for trolling; all you have to do now is figure out why.
Muzzer79 said:
This year’s Red Bull won nearly 75% of the races. No F1 car since 2002 has achieved that.
The above is an inconvenient truth for those who believe that Mercedes were untouchable for 8 years…..they simply weren’t.
What you on about? 2015 Merc won 85% of races, 2016 90% and would have been 95% (20/21 races) if they hadn’t taken eachother out in Spain. The above is an inconvenient truth for those who believe that Mercedes were untouchable for 8 years…..they simply weren’t.
RB Will said:
Muzzer79 said:
This year’s Red Bull won nearly 75% of the races. No F1 car since 2002 has achieved that.
The above is an inconvenient truth for those who believe that Mercedes were untouchable for 8 years…..they simply weren’t.
What you on about? 2015 Merc won 85% of races, 2016 90% and would have been 95% (20/21 races) if they hadn’t taken eachother out in Spain. The above is an inconvenient truth for those who believe that Mercedes were untouchable for 8 years…..they simply weren’t.
But I guess it was in some way harder for him….right?
GiantCardboardPlato said:
When CLC and Ham race though, there are also no issues. So perhaps it’s a ham/max thing.
How can we tell whether it’s a HAM problem or a MAX problem?
Well, last year Hamilton went well out of his way/the race circuit to avoid collisions with Max. there were some races in fact, when max spent most of the time trying to generate contact, and it was all avoided.
Indeed, this year - a year when max had raced respectfully throughout, as soon as he was next to hamilton on the track he deliberately crashed in to him (brazil). His take “I knew he would leave no room, so i decided just to go there and if we crash, we crash” that means ‘I decided to crash with him’. (Since he knew there would not be room).
So I think based on observation of the MAX/HAM battles, and the admission of max this year, it’s safe to say where the issue is coming from.
I have not been sure who is the cause of the Max & Lewis collisions when they are able to race other drivers cleanly. But then when we saw Max take a dive at Lewis during qualifying at the last race of the season, I think it all became clear. For some reason Max has a real issue with Lewis, what for and why only he knows.How can we tell whether it’s a HAM problem or a MAX problem?
Well, last year Hamilton went well out of his way/the race circuit to avoid collisions with Max. there were some races in fact, when max spent most of the time trying to generate contact, and it was all avoided.
Indeed, this year - a year when max had raced respectfully throughout, as soon as he was next to hamilton on the track he deliberately crashed in to him (brazil). His take “I knew he would leave no room, so i decided just to go there and if we crash, we crash” that means ‘I decided to crash with him’. (Since he knew there would not be room).
So I think based on observation of the MAX/HAM battles, and the admission of max this year, it’s safe to say where the issue is coming from.
Megaflow said:
I have not been sure who is the cause of the Max & Lewis collisions when they are able to race other drivers cleanly. But then when we saw Max take a dive at Lewis during qualifying at the last race of the season, I think it all became clear. For some reason Max has a real issue with Lewis, what for and why only he knows.
Max has an issue with Lewis because he knows he is a danger, can`t be intimidated as easily as the others, simple. Max has a bully boy attitude and style which lets him down. Not that much of it on display this year as the season was just too easy for him.HustleRussell said:
You can’t mediate, TikTak- your bias is showing.
Just because you need to staunchly plant a flag on one side and not accept another point of view doesn't mean we're all like it. Not to mention my bias have been out of the sport for a while. I don't really have a favourite driver or team for that matter. Muzzer79 said:
The Ferrari qualified well but let’s not pretend they threw it away or Mercedes were anywhere near them.
Your driver doesn’t break the record for most races won in a season without a dominant car.
The above is an inconvenient truth for those who believe that Mercedes were untouchable for 8 years…..they simply weren’t.
LeClerc and Ferrari cost him 140 points which puts him within 6 points of Max's score without factoring in the points loss to Max. If that isn't throwing it away, what is? Your driver doesn’t break the record for most races won in a season without a dominant car.
The above is an inconvenient truth for those who believe that Mercedes were untouchable for 8 years…..they simply weren’t.
As for Mercedes and not being untouchable, history, the points, the titles all say otherwise. No one got consistently near them. Even factoring in Ferrari being Ferrari (just like in 2022) they weren't really close aside from one season, with an illegal car.
paulguitar said:
In the time I've been watching sport, (40 years or so) Hamilton's story is one of the most fascinating and compelling I have witnessed. I find your comment bizarre.
Likewise. Genuinely intrigued to know what's got you so fascinated? His brothers story for me is a far more compelling one. TikTak said:
paulguitar said:
In the time I've been watching sport, (40 years or so) Hamilton's story is one of the most fascinating and compelling I have witnessed. I find your comment bizarre.
Likewise. Genuinely intrigued to know what's got you so fascinated? I also completely disagree that he lacks personality or charisma. I think he has plenty of both. He's transcended his sport and personally made F1 far more popular worldwide. In the USA he's hugely popular whilst most Americans could literally not name another contemporary F1 driver. He's been right at the very top of F1 since the first corner of his first race, where he drove around the outside of his twice world champion teammate. He's remained there for more than a decade and a half, and, overall, has been unusually clean and fair in the way in which he has conducted himself both on and off the track. He towers over the sport in the same sort of way Senna did, or Rossi did in MotoGP. When he's gone the loss will be colossal.
Oh, and also Lewis and his dad bought one of his first karts from a Pistonheader.
paulguitar said:
TikTak said:
paulguitar said:
In the time I've been watching sport, (40 years or so) Hamilton's story is one of the most fascinating and compelling I have witnessed. I find your comment bizarre.
Likewise. Genuinely intrigued to know what's got you so fascinated? I also completely disagree that he lacks personality or charisma. I think he has plenty of both. He's transcended his sport and personally made F1 far more popular worldwide. In the USA he's hugely popular whilst most Americans could literally not name another contemporary F1 driver. He's been right at the very top of F1 since the first corner of his first race, where he drove around the outside of his twice world champion teammate. He's remained there for more than a decade and a half, and, overall, has been unusually clean and fair in the way in which he has conducted himself both on and off the track. He towers over the sport in the same sort of way Senna did, or Rossi did in MotoGP. When he's gone the loss will be colossal.
Oh, and also Lewis and his dad bought one of his first karts from a Pistonheader.
Muzzer79 said:
RB Will said:
Muzzer79 said:
This year’s Red Bull won nearly 75% of the races. No F1 car since 2002 has achieved that.
The above is an inconvenient truth for those who believe that Mercedes were untouchable for 8 years…..they simply weren’t.
What you on about? 2015 Merc won 85% of races, 2016 90% and would have been 95% (20/21 races) if they hadn’t taken eachother out in Spain. The above is an inconvenient truth for those who believe that Mercedes were untouchable for 8 years…..they simply weren’t.
But I guess it was in some way harder for him….right?
General Price said:
paulguitar said:
TikTak said:
paulguitar said:
In the time I've been watching sport, (40 years or so) Hamilton's story is one of the most fascinating and compelling I have witnessed. I find your comment bizarre.
Likewise. Genuinely intrigued to know what's got you so fascinated? I also completely disagree that he lacks personality or charisma. I think he has plenty of both. He's transcended his sport and personally made F1 far more popular worldwide. In the USA he's hugely popular whilst most Americans could literally not name another contemporary F1 driver. He's been right at the very top of F1 since the first corner of his first race, where he drove around the outside of his twice world champion teammate. He's remained there for more than a decade and a half, and, overall, has been unusually clean and fair in the way in which he has conducted himself both on and off the track. He towers over the sport in the same sort of way Senna did, or Rossi did in MotoGP. When he's gone the loss will be colossal.
Oh, and also Lewis and his dad bought one of his first karts from a Pistonheader.
paulguitar said:
TikTak said:
He may have the personality of dead chicken
In the time I've been watching sport, (40 years or so) Hamilton's story is one of the most fascinating and compelling I have witnessed. I find your comment bizarre.How on earth did he win Spoty?
Obviously it should be renamed to “sports winners” rather than “Sports Personalities”
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