Aston Martin F1 Team

Aston Martin F1 Team

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Discussion

Mr Tidy

13,704 posts

91 months

Wednesday 16th September 2020
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AJB88 said:
I think we will see a different Vettel next year, the weight of the Scuderia off his shoulders, hopefully RP/AM can carry the momentum of this year as well.

I'm a Scuderia fan but always nice to see "Manufacturer" teams enter/come back, I also live few hundred yards from Aston Martin Works so "local" team for me along with RBR.
I'm not convinced - I think Vettel's day has been and gone!

But I hope the team with "Aston Martin" stickers does better than when a team put "Ford" stickers on their cars. laugh

Although I have my doubts!

thegreenhell

8,378 posts

183 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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The ties with Mercedes get even tighter, as it's announced that Mercedes will take a 20% equity share in Aston Martin in return for AM using more Mercedes tech in future road cars.

rdjohn

4,834 posts

159 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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It’s a small company that buys expensive bits from bigger companies. But they are not going to buy engines and transmissions from JL-R.

It’s also really short of cash. They need to start shifting those SUVs soon, or it won’t be possible for Lawrence to sell A-M branded goods, in the medium term.

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat

11,546 posts

59 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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It starts to step on toes, having two F1 teams with considerable ownership/branding linked to Mercedes. Wolff has feet in both camps, too. The other teams aren't going to like it much.


RichB

44,880 posts

248 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
It starts to step on toes, having two F1 teams with considerable ownership/branding linked to Mercedes. Wolff has feet in both camps, too. The other teams aren't going to like it much.
Isn't Alfa more or less Ferrari 2nd team?

The Moose

20,770 posts

173 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
It starts to step on toes, having two F1 teams with considerable ownership/branding linked to Mercedes. Wolff has feet in both camps, too. The other teams aren't going to like it much.
Why?
Ferrari/Alfa
Red Bull/AlphaTauri

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat

11,546 posts

59 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
The Moose said:
Why?
Ferrari/Alfa
Red Bull/AlphaTauri
How much of Alfa Romeo does Ferrari own? How much does Binotto own?

AT haven't been accused of running a facsimile of the RB. Nor do they generally run so close to the front to upset the applecart.

I dont expect AM to stroll around towards the back, if you'll excuse the pun.

The Moose

20,770 posts

173 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
The Moose said:
Why?
Ferrari/Alfa
Red Bull/AlphaTauri
How much of Alfa Romeo does Ferrari own? How much does Binotto own?

AT haven't been accused of running a facsimile of the RB. Nor do they generally run so close to the front to upset the applecart.

I dont expect AM to stroll around towards the back, if you'll excuse the pun.
With respect, that's not what you said!
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
It starts to step on toes, having two F1 teams with considerable ownership/branding linked to Mercedes. Wolff has feet in both camps, too. The other teams aren't going to like it much.
AlphaTauri up until a few months back was called Torro Rosso which unless I'm very much mistaken translates to Bull Red or Red Bull which sounds rather like another F1 team...?? wink

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat

11,546 posts

59 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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I answered your point (which was a fair one). The F1 community seems more preoccupied with the links between RP/AM and Mercedes than they do RB and TR/AT. Perhaps because RP have been pushing the front of midfield using ostensibly Mercedes IP via fax. Twas ever thus.

For reference (though not particularly exciting), from memory in Premier League football you're not allowed to own more than 10% in two teams.

Pericoloso

44,044 posts

127 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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Red Bull and Alpha Tauri have always been fairly independent of each other being as their roots are Jaguar / Stewart GP and

Minardi respectively .

Is there a hotline between Milton Keynes and Faenza ?

RichB

44,880 posts

248 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
For reference (though not particularly exciting), from memory in Premier League football you're not allowed to own more than 10% in two teams.
Exciting or not, what is the relevance?

thegreenhell

8,378 posts

183 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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The issue (if there is one) is not so much with the ownership as with ensuring that IP remains appropriately separate. Toro Rossa have had accusations in the past of running with a Red Bull design, as have Haas (although not Alfa) with running a Ferrari clone. Both of these instances have precipitated specific rule changes to prevent a repeat. RP are just the latest to face such criticism from rivals, and a strengthening of ties between AM and MB will just add fuel that fire.

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat

11,546 posts

59 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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RichB said:
xciting or not, what is the relevance?
Some high profile sports try to maintain integrity by forbidding owners from influencing two teams in the same competition. F1 doesn't.

RichB

44,880 posts

248 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
RichB said:
xciting or not, what is the relevance?
Some high profile sports try to maintain integrity by forbidding owners from influencing two teams in the same competition. F1 doesn't.
I fully understand that however I was questioning its relevance not what you meant by the comment.

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat

11,546 posts

59 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
RichB said:
I fully understand that however I was questioning its relevance not what you meant by the comment.
I gave you the relevance. We are having a conversation about one team in a high profile sport potentially having ownership influence over another. I gave an example of how another high profile sport deals with this kind of situation.

Seriously, do you have a point, or are you just here for the 30 minute argument?

thegreenhell

8,378 posts

183 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
Pericoloso said:
Red Bull and Alpha Tauri have always been fairly independent of each other being as their roots are Jaguar / Stewart GP and

Minardi respectively .

Is there a hotline between Milton Keynes and Faenza ?
RBR and STR chassis were both designed and manufactured by Red Bull Technologies in Milton Keynes between 2008 and 2010. There were various protests from other teams, and a rule change in 2010 prevented any company from being directly involved in the chassis of more than one team. Since then STR/AT have made their chassis in house in Faenza, as they had previously as Minardi.

TheDeuce

8,859 posts

30 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
RichB said:
xciting or not, what is the relevance?
Some high profile sports try to maintain integrity by forbidding owners from influencing two teams in the same competition. F1 doesn't.
I'm sure they'd love to - but they can't get 10 distinct and entirely independant teams to the grid these days! These b-teams one way or another all provide a benefit to the a-team and it's become an important and attractive advantage to have.

look to the future for improvement of that situation..? Nah. Having a b-team to 'learn from' becomes all the more valuable in the post cost cap F1 economy.

I'm sure Liberty aren't blind to the fact that they're managing and sustaining an economy in the sport that requires top teams to have b-teams to be competitive. They're sustaining that situation as the only way to get a whole new wave of indie teams in would be to dramatically cut the costs of entry, at a stroke that would remove the current hybrid spec PU's from the equation, which would also lose the current manufacturers.

It's like a restaurant that's unable to update it's menu and decor for fear of losing their established customers, even though they'd desperately love to attract some new ones.

exelero

1,177 posts

53 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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I still think Toto will go to AM along with Newey. Secretly hope Vettel will snatch Hamilton’s 8th title next year biggrin

The Moose

20,770 posts

173 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
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exelero said:
I still think Toto will go to AM along with Newey. Secretly hope Vettel will snatch Hamilton’s 8th title next year biggrin
I think it'd take a little while to fire up the Wolff/Newey train!! smile

RichB

44,880 posts

248 months

Tuesday 27th October 2020
quotequote all
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
RichB said:
I fully understand that however I was questioning its relevance not what you meant by the comment.
I gave you the relevance. We are having a conversation about one team in a high profile sport potentially having ownership influence over another. I gave an example of how another high profile sport deals with this kind of situation. Seriously, do you have a point, or are you just here for the 30 minute argument?
No argument, I just believe that Football has nothing more than a tenuous relevance to F1. However, to get back on point, as has been said, this will be no different to Ferrari or Red Bull's sister teams.