Official 2020 Eifel Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**

Official 2020 Eifel Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**

Author
Discussion

Teddy Lop

3,642 posts

25 months

Tuesday 13th October
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
If all McLaren take from the switch to mercedes is reliability it’ll be a good move.

I don’t know how many are down to the renault side of things but getting two McLarens across the finish line seems to be a miracle these days.
Not quite sure what the debate is about - sundays win and the first of the customer cars were both Merc powered, and Merc powered cars lead both drivers and constructors in both factory and customer catagories, with the latter leading two factory teams including Renault. And Renault's podium was arguably by a comedyclowncarcarryon race directors decision from Perez.

Know where my money would be.

Derek Smith

37,696 posts

206 months

Tuesday 13th October
quotequote all
The battle for the best of the rest has been the highlight of the season so far for me. With RP, McL and Renault getting stuck in. I suppose one should include one of the Ferraris.

I follow live timing during the race and it's very tight. While I think TV coverage has improved no end this and last season, much is missed.

For a long term supporter of McL, it's been exciting; thrilling in fact. Shame they're losing Sainz as I reckon him, but Norris is coming along nicely. Love his enthusiasm.

Been a good season for racing in the midfield, with the cars more or less equal on performance.

TheDeuce

7,268 posts

24 months

Tuesday 13th October
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
The battle for the best of the rest has been the highlight of the season so far for me. With RP, McL and Renault getting stuck in. I suppose one should include one of the Ferraris.

I follow live timing during the race and it's very tight. While I think TV coverage has improved no end this and last season, much is missed.

For a long term supporter of McL, it's been exciting; thrilling in fact. Shame they're losing Sainz as I reckon him, but Norris is coming along nicely. Love his enthusiasm.

Been a good season for racing in the midfield, with the cars more or less equal on performance.
I quite agree Derek. For me F1 these days is two championships in one, the battle to win outright and the battle for top of midfield. I know the likes of McLaren and Renault aren't in contention for titles but they're locked in their battle, now with RP and for them that battle is just as important and dramatic as the battles between teams at the very top of the grid.

The only reason this season isn't as great as last imo is that Mercedes are relatively unchallenged now due to Ferrari and likewise red bull are no longer tangling with Ferrari most races. So the battle for first/second/third isn't as intense perhaps.. but the midfield certainly makes up for it.


Byker28i

28,265 posts

175 months

Tuesday 13th October
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
The battle for the best of the rest has been the highlight of the season so far for me. With RP, McL and Renault getting stuck in. I suppose one should include one of the Ferraris.

I follow live timing during the race and it's very tight. While I think TV coverage has improved no end this and last season, much is missed.

For a long term supporter of McL, it's been exciting; thrilling in fact. Shame they're losing Sainz as I reckon him, but Norris is coming along nicely. Love his enthusiasm.

Been a good season for racing in the midfield, with the cars more or less equal on performance.
I agree Norris had a very good weekend, just a shame the car didn't finish

Gad-Westy

10,527 posts

171 months

Tuesday 13th October
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Derek Smith said:
The battle for the best of the rest has been the highlight of the season so far for me. With RP, McL and Renault getting stuck in. I suppose one should include one of the Ferraris.

I follow live timing during the race and it's very tight. While I think TV coverage has improved no end this and last season, much is missed.

For a long term supporter of McL, it's been exciting; thrilling in fact. Shame they're losing Sainz as I reckon him, but Norris is coming along nicely. Love his enthusiasm.

Been a good season for racing in the midfield, with the cars more or less equal on performance.
I quite agree Derek. For me F1 these days is two championships in one, the battle to win outright and the battle for top of midfield. I know the likes of McLaren and Renault aren't in contention for titles but they're locked in their battle, now with RP and for them that battle is just as important and dramatic as the battles between teams at the very top of the grid.

The only reason this season isn't as great as last imo is that Mercedes are relatively unchallenged now due to Ferrari and likewise red bull are no longer tangling with Ferrari most races. So the battle for first/second/third isn't as intense perhaps.. but the midfield certainly makes up for it.
On that note. It's amazing to think how far Ferrari have fallen in just one year. To use a football analogy, it's like the they've been relegated from the premier league to league 1 without having a stint in the championship first. Their battle seems to be with AT only. McLaren, Tracing Point and Renault are comfortably ahead.

TheDeuce

7,268 posts

24 months

Tuesday 13th October
quotequote all
Gad-Westy said:
On that note. It's amazing to think how far Ferrari have fallen in just one year. To use a football analogy, it's like the they've been relegated from the premier league to league 1 without having a stint in the championship first. Their battle seems to be with AT only. McLaren, Tracing Point and Renault are comfortably ahead.
Or amazing to think how much they were benefitting from their cheating last season...

Although even with the cheat spec Ferrari the RB car was as competitive - just a shame they didn't have a solid second driver, if they had, they probably would have pushed Ferrari down to third in WCC.

faa77

510 posts

29 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
What i simply don't understand is how you base your entire future on a cheat AND not have a back-up plan, in case you're caught?!

Edited by faa77 on Thursday 15th October 12:32

TheDeuce

7,268 posts

24 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
faa77 said:
What i simply don't understand is how you base your entirely future on a cheat AND not have a back-up plan, in case you're caught?!
That would depend on whether or not Ferrari were able to legally keep pace with the others in terms of hybrid PU development. It's extremely complex stuff, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that they might have hit an internal limit on how much they can extract.

We don't know how long they were cheating for after all..

They also seem to struggle with the dark art of modern F1 aero so I'm not convinced they can produce reliable downforce to the extent Mercedes can without creating higher levels of drag. Say they had a legal equivalent PU to Mercedes today - could they produce a similarly competitive car?

Sounds like I'm having a dig at Ferrari, but the fact is that cheating didn't get them ahead, so perhaps it was motivated by the fact they had to cheat or had to struggle to be competitive. There was only a chance they'd be caught cheating, whereas not doing so might have been a 100% certainty they'd be uncompetitive - which for Ferrari is probably worse than being caught cheating!

M5-911

238 posts

3 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
That would depend on whether or not Ferrari were able to legally keep pace with the others in terms of hybrid PU development. It's extremely complex stuff, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that they might have hit an internal limit on how much they can extract.

We don't know how long they were cheating for after all..

They also seem to struggle with the dark art of modern F1 aero so I'm not convinced they can produce reliable downforce to the extent Mercedes can without creating higher levels of drag. Say they had a legal equivalent PU to Mercedes today - could they produce a similarly competitive car?

Sounds like I'm having a dig at Ferrari, but the fact is that cheating didn't get them ahead, so perhaps it was motivated by the fact they had to cheat or had to struggle to be competitive. There was only a chance they'd be caught cheating, whereas not doing so might have been a 100% certainty they'd be uncompetitive - which for Ferrari is probably worse than being caught cheating!
Cheating did actually get them ahead in 18-19 but their drivers meltdown and mistakes cost them huge amount of points.
Monza last year was a blatant proof of cheating. The speed of the Ferrari was just incomprehensible, even with DRS wide open, Leclerc was pulling away from Hamilton. I think that Hamilton mentioned it on the radio at the time. I was sitting in the pit straight and it was obvious that Ferrari were cheating and far ahead regarding the pace of their car.

tobinen

6,781 posts

103 months

Thursday 15th October
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And Spa. VET (I think) breezed past HAM down the Kemmel straight. Huge speed difference.

vaud

Original Poster:

37,671 posts

113 months

Thursday 15th October
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So if they had been less greedy and only sought to match Mercedes or just a teeny but ahead then they may not have been found out?

rev-erend

20,571 posts

242 months

Thursday 15th October
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You all know that we need to let Ferrari cheat to liven up the championship biggrin

Leithen

6,582 posts

225 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Every pantomime needs a villain.

CanAm

5,934 posts

230 months

Thursday 15th October
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Leithen said:
Every pantomime needs a villain.
Oh no it doesn't!

Come on, somebody had to do it.

vaud

Original Poster:

37,671 posts

113 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
CanAm said:
Oh no it doesn't!

Come on, somebody had to do it.
Lewis: "Where is Vettel and Leclerc"
Toto: "They're behind you" (quite a long way)

Leithen

6,582 posts

225 months

Thursday 15th October
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Suggestions for Widow Twkey? hehe

swisstoni

9,547 posts

237 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
What’s the opinion in Italy nowadays I wonder?
No doubt the team would have got an absolute pasting at the beginning of the scandal.

I guess the mood is now of sad acceptance.

epom

7,082 posts

119 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
rev-erend said:
You all know that we need to let Ferrari cheat to liven up the championship biggrin
Wouldn't be a bad idea for the last few races smile

Oilchange

6,378 posts

218 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Not exactly fair on the teams that are now beating them, each point being worth money as I understand it.

vaud

Original Poster:

37,671 posts

113 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Oilchange said:
Not exactly fair on the teams that are now beating them, each point being worth money as I understand it.
I do feel sorry for the Ferrari customer teams who would not have been party to the cheat.