Official 2020 Eifel Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**
Discussion
TheDeuce said:
That would depend on whether or not Ferrari were able to legally keep pace with the others in terms of hybrid PU development. It's extremely complex stuff, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that they might have hit an internal limit on how much they can extract.
We don't know how long they were cheating for after all..
They also seem to struggle with the dark art of modern F1 aero so I'm not convinced they can produce reliable downforce to the extent Mercedes can without creating higher levels of drag. Say they had a legal equivalent PU to Mercedes today - could they produce a similarly competitive car?
Sounds like I'm having a dig at Ferrari, but the fact is that cheating didn't get them ahead, so perhaps it was motivated by the fact they had to cheat or had to struggle to be competitive. There was only a chance they'd be caught cheating, whereas not doing so might have been a 100% certainty they'd be uncompetitive - which for Ferrari is probably worse than being caught cheating!
Cheating did actually get them ahead in 18-19 but their drivers meltdown and mistakes cost them huge amount of points.We don't know how long they were cheating for after all..
They also seem to struggle with the dark art of modern F1 aero so I'm not convinced they can produce reliable downforce to the extent Mercedes can without creating higher levels of drag. Say they had a legal equivalent PU to Mercedes today - could they produce a similarly competitive car?
Sounds like I'm having a dig at Ferrari, but the fact is that cheating didn't get them ahead, so perhaps it was motivated by the fact they had to cheat or had to struggle to be competitive. There was only a chance they'd be caught cheating, whereas not doing so might have been a 100% certainty they'd be uncompetitive - which for Ferrari is probably worse than being caught cheating!
Monza last year was a blatant proof of cheating. The speed of the Ferrari was just incomprehensible, even with DRS wide open, Leclerc was pulling away from Hamilton. I think that Hamilton mentioned it on the radio at the time. I was sitting in the pit straight and it was obvious that Ferrari were cheating and far ahead regarding the pace of their car.
key? 
tobinen said:
And Spa. VET (I think) breezed past HAM down the Kemmel straight. Huge speed difference.
That was the point people realised there was something not quite right about the new engine the red cars were running. You don't just gain 50 or 100bhp in one go any more, not when the other manufacturers were going up in 5s and 10s. vaud said:
So if they had been less greedy and only sought to match Mercedes or just a teeny but ahead then they may not have been found out?
Maybe... But even by being faster than Mercedes they couldn't beat them overall could they? At certain circuits their outright speed may have given them the advantage but they have a few problems Mercedes don't: Driver error (Seb...), Comical strategy, Team mismanagement, Useless race engineers, Dodgy aero, A TP that was blatantly in Ghostbusters 1 & 2.Even with full cheat-mode enabled they were overall never going to do anything other than make Mercedes look even better.
Edit 2018 was kinda better Ferrari v Merc, but then they started to update their car, ruined it, and ended the season with their car put back to its original spec - they said they didn't understand it all but it worked best that way.. That's not something you will hear from their competitors! Lest we forget Ferrari have the same budget level as Mercedes too.
Edited by TheDeuce on Thursday 15th October 22:25
Fundoreen said:
Having watched a typical public day on youtube im suprised anyone gets a lap in without coming upon a crash.
F1 drivers running must have been the quietest day ever.
In 'normal' cars it must feel like everything is in slow motion to them. They can get out of shape and feel they all the time in the world to contemplate how to sort it out, along with what they might have for dinner that evening...F1 drivers running must have been the quietest day ever.
I used to play snooker at a local club, on full sized tables. I was hopeless - but when I went from the club to the local pub with it's tiny pool table and gaping pockets I was deadly
Sandpit Steve said:
tobinen said:
And Spa. VET (I think) breezed past HAM down the Kemmel straight. Huge speed difference.
That was the point people realised there was something not quite right about the new engine the red cars were running. You don't just gain 50 or 100bhp in one go any more, not when the other manufacturers were going up in 5s and 10s. I remember some people saying nah, it must have been because Hamilton was in the wrong gear or harvesting or something.
swisstoni said:
Sandpit Steve said:
tobinen said:
And Spa. VET (I think) breezed past HAM down the Kemmel straight. Huge speed difference.
That was the point people realised there was something not quite right about the new engine the red cars were running. You don't just gain 50 or 100bhp in one go any more, not when the other manufacturers were going up in 5s and 10s. I remember some people saying nah, it must have been because Hamilton was in the wrong gear or harvesting or something.
But then the GPS showed how fast they were pushing out of corners at speeds below aero drag really being a factor.. I STILL struggled to believe it could be a cheat. Even Brundle who wines and dines up and down the grid and knows just about every rumour is on record saying that he didn't believe in times of modern corporate responsibility they would risk such a cheat. But then Red Bull hypothesized how it could be done and the dots were joined, both for me and clearly the FIA. It was obvious how and what they were doing.
The level of the unsporting nature of the cheat boggles the mind. It can't be passed off as skirting the regs or 'innovating'. The entire championship is fought under fuel flow regulated limits, they cheated that limit! It's as unforgivable as taking a shortcut each lap and missing out part of the circuit! Still can't believe they thought it was a good idea. Turns out it definitely wasn't, as they're now not even half way through their two year punishment of dismal performance stuck in the midfield...
Bellends.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff