Honda to leave F1

[M5-911]

TheDeuce said:

Can you put forward any reason Ferrari would want to supply red bull?

I think that you misunderstood my post.

At no point Ferrari said NO to Redbull like you have said. In the contrary.

The causes of Ferrari offering the engines could be as simple as wanting to see a Ferrari engine in a winning chassis.

I think that everybody remember Torro Rosso winning Monza in 2008 with a... Ferrari engine. What a story that was on Italian soil.

Again, no one knows who is going to be powering Redbull in 2022, and making a comment that the door is closed despite the opposite being said by Binotto is taking the fun away for more speculation from the fans!

[Flooble]

Based on qualifying today either Leclerc is a new Alonso or the Ferrari engine isn't as down on power as it was.

[TheDeuce]

M5-911 said:

TheDeuce said:

Can you put forward any reason Ferrari would want to supply red bull?

I think that you misunderstood my post.

At no point Ferrari said NO to Redbull like you have said. In the contrary.

The causes of Ferrari offering the engines could be as simple as wanting to see a Ferrari engine in a winning chassis.

I think that everybody remember Torro Rosso winning Monza in 2008 with a... Ferrari engine. What a story that was on Italian soil.

Again, no one knows who is going to be powering Redbull in 2022, and making a comment that the door is closed despite the opposite being said by Binotto is taking the fun away for more speculation from the fans!

I never said Ferrari said 'no'. I said the opposite, they will say maybe, perhaps even yes. But I did say the door is closed - and in reality I suspect it is regardless of what they say.

They will be looking to return to the top tier ASAP. They won't want to be supplying a team that could beat them over a season once they get there. That would just tell the world that having proven they can't make an engine, they also can't make a car as well as a fizzy drinks company... I don't think that fits with their marketing strategy.

[TheLuke]

Flooble said:

Based on qualifying today either Leclerc is a new Alonso or the Ferrari engine isn't as down on power as it was.

Could be, but Vettel was still slower than he should have been.

Its also worth mentioning, this isnt really a power sensitive circuit, its more suited to cars with a good downforce balance and low speed grip.

[Exige77]

TheDeuce said:

M5-911 said:

TheDeuce said:

That's an additional reason it won't happen of course! Although we have to assume that at some point Ferrari will be trying to sort out the lack of power.

It might not happen (especially with the power deficit) but the door is definitely not closed as you mentioned. The only closed door is Mercedes. Plenty of talks are happening as we are debating.

Can you put forward any reason Ferrari would want to supply red bull?

Could be a bit like the Red Team stringing along Ford in the 1960s ?

We might / could supply you ?

[antspants]

TheLuke said:

Flooble said:

Based on qualifying today either Leclerc is a new Alonso or the Ferrari engine isn't as down on power as it was.

Could be, but Vettel was still slower than he should have been.

Its also worth mentioning, this isnt really a power sensitive circuit, its more suited to cars with a good downforce balance and low speed grip.

Norris was saying in his post qualifying interview, that they already know from the data that the Ferrari isn't a bad car in the corners, so on a circuit that isn't power sensitive it looks a lot better. However I do think that LeClerc is leaving nothing on the table (very overused phrase by the drivers today) whereas Vettel is simply going through the motions (and I can't really blame him.)

[TheDeuce]

Exige77 said:

TheDeuce said:

M5-911 said:

TheDeuce said:

That's an additional reason it won't happen of course! Although we have to assume that at some point Ferrari will be trying to sort out the lack of power.

It might not happen (especially with the power deficit) but the door is definitely not closed as you mentioned. The only closed door is Mercedes. Plenty of talks are happening as we are debating.

Can you put forward any reason Ferrari would want to supply red bull?

Could be a bit like the Red Team stringing along Ford in the 1960s ?

We might / could supply you ?

We will sell to you... Actually we won't we will crush you!!! Fair play, Ford won that battle in the end but my god it cost them!

To play ball with what the public finds interesting is smart, It raises headlines and occupies the time of a competitor. Why would they not try to string everyone along?

I'm sure Horner and Marko would expect nothing less. I'm sure they don't expect to have Ferrari power in their cars no matter what the media get all excited about. And right now they wouldn't want Ferrari 'power' because there isn't any. And when there is Ferrari won't want them to have it

And lets not forget that this time last year Red Bull were the one's reverse engineering the ways that Ferrari might be cheating and sharing their ponderings with the FIA. That's a great way to start a customer/supplier relationship

[HighwayStar]

Taking on Honda’s operation is their preferred option...
https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bull-honda-intel...

[anonymous-user]

Why would the other engine manufacturers agree to a freeze when not doing so knobles Red Bull and restricts their own chance to catch Mercedes? Renault need to keep improving, as do Ferrari. Renault would benefit from the income too and it's a great way to make Horner and Marko squirm.

There is nothing in it for Honda either.

[Teddy Lop]

antspants said:

Norris was saying in his post qualifying interview, that they already know from the data that the Ferrari isn't a bad car in the corners, so on a circuit that isn't power sensitive it looks a lot better. However I do think that LeClerc is leaving nothing on the table (very overused phrase by the drivers today) whereas Vettel is simply going through the motions (and I can't really blame him.)

I could. If he wanted to go through the motions, drive a bus. He should be doing all he can to prove them wrong.

[Exige77]

Teddy Lop said:

antspants said:

Norris was saying in his post qualifying interview, that they already know from the data that the Ferrari isn't a bad car in the corners, so on a circuit that isn't power sensitive it looks a lot better. However I do think that LeClerc is leaving nothing on the table (very overused phrase by the drivers today) whereas Vettel is simply going through the motions (and I can't really blame him.)

I could. If he wanted to go through the motions, drive a bus. He should be doing all he can to prove them wrong.

The Aston team will be “lumbered” with him for the next few years. Even when he’s trying, he’s lost that edge that a front runner needs to have.

Too many mistakes week in week out.

[Muzzer79]

Exige77 said:

Teddy Lop said:

antspants said:

Norris was saying in his post qualifying interview, that they already know from the data that the Ferrari isn't a bad car in the corners, so on a circuit that isn't power sensitive it looks a lot better. However I do think that LeClerc is leaving nothing on the table (very overused phrase by the drivers today) whereas Vettel is simply going through the motions (and I can't really blame him.)

I could. If he wanted to go through the motions, drive a bus. He should be doing all he can to prove them wrong.

The Aston team will be “lumbered” with him for the next few years. Even when he’s trying, he’s lost that edge that a front runner needs to have.

Too many mistakes week in week out.

I'm a long, long way from being his biggest fan but I actually think a change of scenery will do him good.

I don't think he'll set the world on fire necessarily, but he'll do well for them and deliver solid results. He knows how to win, which is what they need whether he achieves it or not.

[Petrus1983]

I was watching the race on Sunday at my local with a few friends - something interesting happened as 2 of them don’t follow F1 and both said “I didn’t know Aston Martin was in F1” when Max was up front - and then I realised how blatant the AM logos were over that of the Honda logos.

[Stan the Bat]

Muzzer79 said:

Exige77 said:

Teddy Lop said:

antspants said:

Norris was saying in his post qualifying interview, that they already know from the data that the Ferrari isn't a bad car in the corners, so on a circuit that isn't power sensitive it looks a lot better. However I do think that LeClerc is leaving nothing on the table (very overused phrase by the drivers today) whereas Vettel is simply going through the motions (and I can't really blame him.)

I could. If he wanted to go through the motions, drive a bus. He should be doing all he can to prove them wrong.

The Aston team will be “lumbered” with him for the next few years. Even when he’s trying, he’s lost that edge that a front runner needs to have.

Too many mistakes week in week out.

I'm a long, long way from being his biggest fan but I actually think a change of scenery will do him good.

I don't think he'll set the world on fire necessarily, but he'll do well for them and deliver solid results. He knows how to win, which is what they need whether he achieves it or not.

If Stroll shows him up, then that will really tarnish his reputation.

[Durzel]

Teddy Lop said:

antspants said:

Norris was saying in his post qualifying interview, that they already know from the data that the Ferrari isn't a bad car in the corners, so on a circuit that isn't power sensitive it looks a lot better. However I do think that LeClerc is leaving nothing on the table (very overused phrase by the drivers today) whereas Vettel is simply going through the motions (and I can't really blame him.)

I could. If he wanted to go through the motions, drive a bus. He should be doing all he can to prove them wrong.

If you’ve mentally checked out of something you can’t just manufacture drive and determination. He might still want to win, but not with this team, and at this level that is necessary to actually achieve it.

AM will be the acid test. Obviously it’ll be hard to quantify exactly as it’s a different car, but that season will really be sink or swim for him. He’ll either cement a legacy or leave F1 as someone who went off the boil and never recovered.

[TheDeuce]

Durzel said:

If you’ve mentally checked out of something you can’t just manufacture drive and determination. He might still want to win, but not with this team, and at this level that is necessary to actually achieve it.

AM will be the acid test. Obviously it’ll be hard to quantify exactly as it’s a different car, but that season will really be sink or swim for him. He’ll either cement a legacy or leave F1 as someone who went off the boil and never recovered.

I like seb but I think it'll be easy to quantify at AM. If a four time wdc can't beat Stroll, effectively a pay driver - decent but by no means a future WDC, then he can't himself be driving at a WDC level. That's the only remaining question mark over seb surely? Can he still drive at WDC level with the pressure removed? If not he's either peaked early and can't be helped, or simply could only gain such titles in a very specific car with a notable advantage on the grid.

[TwentyFive]

TheDeuce said:

I like seb but I think it'll be easy to quantify at AM. If a four time wdc can't beat Stroll, effectively a pay driver - decent but by no means a future WDC, then he can't himself be driving at a WDC level.

A couple of years ago I would have entirely agreed with that view of Stroll and whilst its factually true that Stoll is a pay driver, his performance is way beyond that of a typical pay driver, especially in the last 12 months.

Lets not forget that Vettel never won the F3 Euroseries, he was beaten to the title by Paul Di Resta. Stroll did win the F3 series and beat George Russell to that title who we all tend to agree seems like the real deal.

Maybe he is actually better than he gets the credit for and the 'pay driver' tag is just something he needs to carry around, maybe unfairly thanks to his old man?

You are right to say that if Vettel gets beaten by Stroll then it will confirm he is long past his best, but I think that is plain to see already tbh.

[Oilchange]

I wonder if Vettel is number two to Stroll, Stroll being the bosses son and all...

[HighwayStar]

Oilchange said:

I wonder if Vettel is number two to Stroll, Stroll being the bosses son and all...

I just don’t see Seb signing up for that... listening to his Beyond The Grid interview, he’d have left F1 if he thought he couldn’t compete or could only run around near the back. He doesn’t need F1.
We’ll see soon enough where he’s really at.

[Oilchange]

If it was the only offer on the table, what about then?