Honda to leave F1

Honda to leave F1

Author
Discussion

Nampahc Niloc

476 posts

36 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
We're going O/T here.
Was about to say the same thing. What has any of this got to do with Honda? Surely this should be confined to the silly season post.

Oilchange

6,378 posts

218 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
I did send it spiralling off a bit, apologies.
Back to Honda

faa77

510 posts

29 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
TwentyFive said:
A couple of years ago I would have entirely agreed with that view of Stroll and whilst its factually true that Stoll is a pay driver, his performance is way beyond that of a typical pay driver, especially in the last 12 months.

Lets not forget that Vettel never won the F3 Euroseries, he was beaten to the title by Paul Di Resta. Stroll did win the F3 series and beat George Russell to that title who we all tend to agree seems like the real deal.

Maybe he is actually better than he gets the credit for and the 'pay driver' tag is just something he needs to carry around, maybe unfairly thanks to his old man?

You are right to say that if Vettel gets beaten by Stroll then it will confirm he is long past his best, but I think that is plain to see already tbh.
It's a lot easier to enjoy/focus on racing (and therefore perform well) when you know bad performance won't lose your seat

faa77

510 posts

29 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
We're going O/T here but it seems that people think that Racing Point/Aston Martin are Lawrence Stroll's folly - a train set to allow his son to race.

Of course, having a team gives him the luxury of choosing Lance as a driver but that's where it ends.

RP have some serious people with serious money involved. They've shown they're serious by spending a lot of money on a multiple world champion

If they started hampering their own progress to favour Lance, it would come crashing down pretty quickly.
100%

Choosing Stroll over Perez is a completely different scenario to hiring Vettel and then not letting him beat Stroll.

Lawrence Stroll just wants his son in a car. It doesn't matter if a 4x WDC is going to wipe the floor with him, as that wouldn't be surprising.


Munter

30,059 posts

199 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
What would red bull brand the engine if/when they take it on themselves?

Deesee

4,532 posts

41 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Munter said:
What would red bull brand the engine if/when they take it on themselves?
Jagerbomb..

Munter

30,059 posts

199 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Deesee said:
Munter said:
What would red bull brand the engine if/when they take it on themselves?
Jagerbomb..
Not TVR? Get Smirnoff and Patrón on board?

MTech535

609 posts

69 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Munter said:
What would red bull brand the engine if/when they take it on themselves?
Who ever pays them enough, I assume.

Muzzer79

3,775 posts

145 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Munter said:
What would red bull brand the engine if/when they take it on themselves?
There's a theory now that Red Bull could buy the IP from Honda, then sell the name of the engine to someone else.

So, for example, if you were an independent sports car manufacturer, you could get your name on an F1 engine for a relatively small amount. You then 'enter' F1 with no startup issues and ride out the publicity until the engine change in 2026.

It may appeal to someone.

The alternative is to go outside a manufacturer and do a sponsorship deal similar to the TAG-Heuer one they did with the Renault engines. More likely I would say.

Mr Dendrite

1,674 posts

168 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
Munter said:
What would red bull brand the engine if/when they take it on themselves?
There's a theory now that Red Bull could buy the IP from Honda, then sell the name of the engine to someone else.

So, for example, if you were an independent sports car manufacturer, you could get your name on an F1 engine for a relatively small amount. You then 'enter' F1 with no startup issues and ride out the publicity until the engine change in 2026.

It may appeal to someone.

The alternative is to go outside a manufacturer and do a sponsorship deal similar to the TAG-Heuer one they did with the Renault engines. More likely I would say.
I thought TAG were a purpose built engine, by Porsche?

thegreenhell

7,658 posts

177 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Mr Dendrite said:
I thought TAG were a purpose built engine, by Porsche?
It was, back in the 80s, but also TAG-Heuer sponsored the Renault engine in the Red Bull from 2016-18.

Daston

5,671 posts

161 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Munter said:
Not TVR? Get Smirnoff and Patrón on board?
Well Rebellion are no longer a thing but I don't think TVR has been on their car this year. Also seeing as how painfully slow their new car is being released I think they won't want a big spotlight or have the funds.

kiseca

8,270 posts

177 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Oilchange said:
Of course not but nobody knows on what terms he or any of the drivers are driving under. Shooting down my theory without knowing the facts is just silly. Even if it is a far out theory.
Anyway, he might be driving on equal terms but they might play silly buggers and give Stroll the edge in some other way. Or not.
The point is, nobody knows.

And in any case, the big Elephant in the room is that his team mate is the Bosses son!

Edited by Oilchange on Thursday 15th October 10:49
I wouldn't be completely surprised if Lance gets car updates before Vettel, like they did this season once Perez's departure had been announced, but even without having their contracts to hand, the facts that we do know about Formula 1 in general make your theory extremely unlikely IMO. It would be an incredibly illogical decision to drop Perez, who pays for his seat, hire Vettel who gets paid to drive the car, and then contractually - or even out of contract - tell him to go slower than Stroll.

Where's the motive?


spunkytherabbit

346 posts

138 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
kiseca said:
Oilchange said:
Of course not but nobody knows on what terms he or any of the drivers are driving under. Shooting down my theory without knowing the facts is just silly. Even if it is a far out theory.
Anyway, he might be driving on equal terms but they might play silly buggers and give Stroll the edge in some other way. Or not.
The point is, nobody knows.

And in any case, the big Elephant in the room is that his team mate is the Bosses son!

Edited by Oilchange on Thursday 15th October 10:49
I wouldn't be completely surprised if Lance gets car updates before Vettel, like they did this season once Perez's departure had been announced, but even without having their contracts to hand, the facts that we do know about Formula 1 in general make your theory extremely unlikely IMO. It would be an incredibly illogical decision to drop Perez, who pays for his seat, hire Vettel who gets paid to drive the car, and then contractually - or even out of contract - tell him to go slower than Stroll.

Where's the motive?
You're forgetting the marketing angle as well. Vettel has been hired for brand value for AM as much as his driving ability. Stroll Snr will want Vettel's car to be going as fast as they can make it go. I bet Jnr will be firmly at the back of the queue for upgrades. Stroll Snr strikes me as a man with enough of a ruthless streak to overcome familial loyalty. Jnr gets to drive his F1 car and I reckon that's as far as the loyalty goes. Snr won't want to risk looking silly giving upgrades to Lance first and having his 4x WDC driver going slower as a result. My opinion.

kiseca

8,270 posts

177 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
spunkytherabbit said:
kiseca said:
Oilchange said:
Of course not but nobody knows on what terms he or any of the drivers are driving under. Shooting down my theory without knowing the facts is just silly. Even if it is a far out theory.
Anyway, he might be driving on equal terms but they might play silly buggers and give Stroll the edge in some other way. Or not.
The point is, nobody knows.

And in any case, the big Elephant in the room is that his team mate is the Bosses son!

Edited by Oilchange on Thursday 15th October 10:49
I wouldn't be completely surprised if Lance gets car updates before Vettel, like they did this season once Perez's departure had been announced, but even without having their contracts to hand, the facts that we do know about Formula 1 in general make your theory extremely unlikely IMO. It would be an incredibly illogical decision to drop Perez, who pays for his seat, hire Vettel who gets paid to drive the car, and then contractually - or even out of contract - tell him to go slower than Stroll.

Where's the motive?
You're forgetting the marketing angle as well. Vettel has been hired for brand value for AM as much as his driving ability. Stroll Snr will want Vettel's car to be going as fast as they can make it go. I bet Jnr will be firmly at the back of the queue for upgrades. Stroll Snr strikes me as a man with enough of a ruthless streak to overcome familial loyalty. Jnr gets to drive his F1 car and I reckon that's as far as the loyalty goes. Snr won't want to risk looking silly giving upgrades to Lance first and having his 4x WDC driver going slower as a result. My opinion.
Now that's an opinion I can agree with. I see the motivation for hiring Vettel. I don't see the motivation for hiring Vettel and then tell him he must not beat Lance.

Deesee

4,532 posts

41 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Seb has invested some funds in Aston Martin.. he’s part of the consortium..

jsf

19,248 posts

194 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Deesee said:
Seb has invested some funds in Aston Martin.. he’s part of the consortium..
That's not the same thing. I know some major shareholders in AM who are just shareholders.

Deesee

4,532 posts

41 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
jsf said:
Deesee said:
Seb has invested some funds in Aston Martin.. he’s part of the consortium..
That's not the same thing. I know some major shareholders in AM who are just shareholders.
Perhaps, he’s in thick, direct voice to the CEO that too, he’s part of the senior ‘team’..

DanielSan

15,394 posts

125 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Deesee said:
Seb has invested some funds in Aston Martin.. he’s part of the consortium..
Except no one knows if he has invested any personal cash or if his shares are part of the deal to join the team. He's not involved with Stroll's consortium who bought the team either way

FourWheelDrift

80,792 posts

242 months

Thursday 15th October
quotequote all
Mr Dendrite said:
I thought TAG were a purpose built engine, by Porsche?
Coincidently Red Bull are sponsored by TAG (old Porsche) and DMG Mori (Hybrid Le Mans Porsche) sponsors.

As for them taking on the engine themselves I wonder of they could partner with Mugen to develop the Honda, only others I can think of would be Cosworth or Mechachrome who assembled Red Bull's Renault engines during their championship years 2010-13.