Honda to leave F1
Discussion
spunkytherabbit said:
TheDeuce said:
No grovelling required. Renault are required to supply them with engines by default. It's up to RB & AT to seek alternative supply if they wish to. If they don't/can't then Renault have to supply them.
Of course... It might help the end result if they take some steps to improve their relationship ahead of relying on Renault
That's the stupid thing though isn't it. RBR/Horner/Marco won't approach it delicately. Their attitude will be 'well Renault are obliged to supply us, so give us the fkin engine. It'll be sOf course... It might help the end result if they take some steps to improve their relationship ahead of relying on Renault
t mind, but you gotta give it me, so give it'. Rather than recognising neither of them want to be in a situation of working together but trying to put the best foot forward for a few years.Ultimately it's bigger than just Christian and Cyril.
TwentyFive said:
The other option being that RB buy the Honda IP and brand the engines themselves?
Possible but that is big money for engine dev. Car manufacturers spend billions on development overall and can claim synergies, etc for F1 dev as well as attract the best people. I wonder if they have realised that they are in a dead for development vs Mercedes?
TwentyFive said:
The other option being that RB buy the Honda IP and brand the engines themselves?
Possible but that is big money for engine dev. Car manufacturers spend billions on development overall and can claim synergies, etc for F1 dev as well as attract the best people. I wonder if they have realised that they are in a dead end for development vs Mercedes?
Edited by vaud on Friday 2nd October 10:58
In times like this it's become a tradition to use the example of 'if Alonso can go back to Mclaren anything can happen so I will....
Renault have 0 customers as of next year, if they can suddenly gain 2 customers from this situation for 2022 it's going to look a lot better on the engine departments bottom line than the 0 customers they have now. The last podium, race win and championship for Renault all came in the back of a Red Bull, and it's likely that barring a mad race somewhere thr next podium/race win for Renault may well come thr moment the engine is in the back of a Red Bull again.
Either that or RB will partner with someone to buy the new Honda design if its good and continue with that.
Renault have 0 customers as of next year, if they can suddenly gain 2 customers from this situation for 2022 it's going to look a lot better on the engine departments bottom line than the 0 customers they have now. The last podium, race win and championship for Renault all came in the back of a Red Bull, and it's likely that barring a mad race somewhere thr next podium/race win for Renault may well come thr moment the engine is in the back of a Red Bull again.
Either that or RB will partner with someone to buy the new Honda design if its good and continue with that.
Danez said:
hondas return to F1 has been a joke
Would love for the engine regs to be pushed closer and cosworth returning
Not sure it’s been a joke ?Would love for the engine regs to be pushed closer and cosworth returning
They started “late” and eventually produced a competitive / legal engine with similar performance to Ferrari / Renault.
Mercedes have just done a better job than the rest over the whole of the hybrid era.
Sure if I was Honda I would be disappointed with all the effort and little success.
Electrification now beckons for the mass market car brands.
DanielSan said:
In times like this it's become a tradition to use the example of 'if Alonso can go back to Mclaren anything can happen so I will....
Renault have 0 customers as of next year, if they can suddenly gain 2 customers from this situation for 2022 it's going to look a lot better on the engine departments bottom line than the 0 customers they have now. The last podium, race win and championship for Renault all came in the back of a Red Bull, and it's likely that barring a mad race somewhere thr next podium/race win for Renault may well come thr moment the engine is in the back of a Red Bull again.
Either that or RB will partner with someone to buy the new Honda design if its good and continue with that.
That is probably the most realistic assessment of the situation. I didn't think beyond the immediate headlines of Horner Vs Cyril.Renault have 0 customers as of next year, if they can suddenly gain 2 customers from this situation for 2022 it's going to look a lot better on the engine departments bottom line than the 0 customers they have now. The last podium, race win and championship for Renault all came in the back of a Red Bull, and it's likely that barring a mad race somewhere thr next podium/race win for Renault may well come thr moment the engine is in the back of a Red Bull again.
Either that or RB will partner with someone to buy the new Honda design if its good and continue with that.
The Renault board have agreed to staying in F1 but with the condition of things changing and results. Supplying customers, one of which at least, has a realistic chance of wins and regular points gives them a medium term option of quitting as a constructor but staying as an engine supplier and still getting brand recognition from successes. Whereas right now, their only options appear to be stay as an underperforming constructor or quit. As a brand that likes to trade on it's motorsport heritage I would imagine having a Renault badge attached to some F1 success is suddenly very attractive as DanielSan pointed out.
gmaz said:
I wonder if Toyota will return? They have lots of hybrid experience from their sports cars, but LeMans has become a bit of an irrelevance as they have no competition.
Being able to get back into F1 without developing their own chassis would be so much easier than the last time.
I don't think any mainstream manufacturer will return to invest in an internal combustion engine. They are all frantically pivoting to electric.Being able to get back into F1 without developing their own chassis would be so much easier than the last time.
Exige77 said:
Not sure it’s been a joke ?
They started “late” and eventually produced a competitive / legal engine with similar performance to Ferrari / Renault.
Mercedes have just done a better job than the rest over the whole of the hybrid era.
Sure if I was Honda I would be disappointed with all the effort and little success.
Electrification now beckons for the mass market car brands.
It's more of a joke in the sense that honda after 5 years are finally making a competitive engine (4th/3rd best) and just now suddenly pulling out. They started “late” and eventually produced a competitive / legal engine with similar performance to Ferrari / Renault.
Mercedes have just done a better job than the rest over the whole of the hybrid era.
Sure if I was Honda I would be disappointed with all the effort and little success.
Electrification now beckons for the mass market car brands.
spunkytherabbit said:
DanielSan said:
In times like this it's become a tradition to use the example of 'if Alonso can go back to Mclaren anything can happen so I will....
Renault have 0 customers as of next year, if they can suddenly gain 2 customers from this situation for 2022 it's going to look a lot better on the engine departments bottom line than the 0 customers they have now. The last podium, race win and championship for Renault all came in the back of a Red Bull, and it's likely that barring a mad race somewhere thr next podium/race win for Renault may well come thr moment the engine is in the back of a Red Bull again.
Either that or RB will partner with someone to buy the new Honda design if its good and continue with that.
That is probably the most realistic assessment of the situation. I didn't think beyond the immediate headlines of Horner Vs Cyril.Renault have 0 customers as of next year, if they can suddenly gain 2 customers from this situation for 2022 it's going to look a lot better on the engine departments bottom line than the 0 customers they have now. The last podium, race win and championship for Renault all came in the back of a Red Bull, and it's likely that barring a mad race somewhere thr next podium/race win for Renault may well come thr moment the engine is in the back of a Red Bull again.
Either that or RB will partner with someone to buy the new Honda design if its good and continue with that.
The Renault board have agreed to staying in F1 but with the condition of things changing and results. Supplying customers, one of which at least, has a realistic chance of wins and regular points gives them a medium term option of quitting as a constructor but staying as an engine supplier and still getting brand recognition from successes. Whereas right now, their only options appear to be stay as an underperforming constructor or quit. As a brand that likes to trade on it's motorsport heritage I would imagine having a Renault badge attached to some F1 success is suddenly very attractive as DanielSan pointed out.
It's the 2026 regs where it get interesting.
If I were Domenicali and Brawn, I'd get Andy Cowell, Gordon Murray, Ferrari and Cosworth together to produce a spec that is entirely non-automotive manufacturer reliant.
I'd favour a relatively simple and open spec that recognises that the contact patch is already an entirely controlled item.
Leithen said:
spunkytherabbit said:
DanielSan said:
In times like this it's become a tradition to use the example of 'if Alonso can go back to Mclaren anything can happen so I will....
Renault have 0 customers as of next year, if they can suddenly gain 2 customers from this situation for 2022 it's going to look a lot better on the engine departments bottom line than the 0 customers they have now. The last podium, race win and championship for Renault all came in the back of a Red Bull, and it's likely that barring a mad race somewhere thr next podium/race win for Renault may well come thr moment the engine is in the back of a Red Bull again.
Either that or RB will partner with someone to buy the new Honda design if its good and continue with that.
That is probably the most realistic assessment of the situation. I didn't think beyond the immediate headlines of Horner Vs Cyril.Renault have 0 customers as of next year, if they can suddenly gain 2 customers from this situation for 2022 it's going to look a lot better on the engine departments bottom line than the 0 customers they have now. The last podium, race win and championship for Renault all came in the back of a Red Bull, and it's likely that barring a mad race somewhere thr next podium/race win for Renault may well come thr moment the engine is in the back of a Red Bull again.
Either that or RB will partner with someone to buy the new Honda design if its good and continue with that.
The Renault board have agreed to staying in F1 but with the condition of things changing and results. Supplying customers, one of which at least, has a realistic chance of wins and regular points gives them a medium term option of quitting as a constructor but staying as an engine supplier and still getting brand recognition from successes. Whereas right now, their only options appear to be stay as an underperforming constructor or quit. As a brand that likes to trade on it's motorsport heritage I would imagine having a Renault badge attached to some F1 success is suddenly very attractive as DanielSan pointed out.
It's the 2026 regs where it get interesting.
If I were Domenicali and Brawn, I'd get Andy Cowell, Gordon Murray, Ferrari and Cosworth together to produce something that is entirely non-automotive manufacturer reliant.
I'd favour a relatively simple and open spec that recognises that the contact patch is already an entirely controlled item.
Tyre Smoke said:
Leithen said:
spunkytherabbit said:
DanielSan said:
In times like this it's become a tradition to use the example of 'if Alonso can go back to Mclaren anything can happen so I will....
Renault have 0 customers as of next year, if they can suddenly gain 2 customers from this situation for 2022 it's going to look a lot better on the engine departments bottom line than the 0 customers they have now. The last podium, race win and championship for Renault all came in the back of a Red Bull, and it's likely that barring a mad race somewhere thr next podium/race win for Renault may well come thr moment the engine is in the back of a Red Bull again.
Either that or RB will partner with someone to buy the new Honda design if its good and continue with that.
That is probably the most realistic assessment of the situation. I didn't think beyond the immediate headlines of Horner Vs Cyril.Renault have 0 customers as of next year, if they can suddenly gain 2 customers from this situation for 2022 it's going to look a lot better on the engine departments bottom line than the 0 customers they have now. The last podium, race win and championship for Renault all came in the back of a Red Bull, and it's likely that barring a mad race somewhere thr next podium/race win for Renault may well come thr moment the engine is in the back of a Red Bull again.
Either that or RB will partner with someone to buy the new Honda design if its good and continue with that.
The Renault board have agreed to staying in F1 but with the condition of things changing and results. Supplying customers, one of which at least, has a realistic chance of wins and regular points gives them a medium term option of quitting as a constructor but staying as an engine supplier and still getting brand recognition from successes. Whereas right now, their only options appear to be stay as an underperforming constructor or quit. As a brand that likes to trade on it's motorsport heritage I would imagine having a Renault badge attached to some F1 success is suddenly very attractive as DanielSan pointed out.
It's the 2026 regs where it get interesting.
If I were Domenicali and Brawn, I'd get Andy Cowell, Gordon Murray, Ferrari and Cosworth together to produce something that is entirely non-automotive manufacturer reliant.
I'd favour a relatively simple and open spec that recognises that the contact patch is already an entirely controlled item.
Danez said:
It's more of a joke in the sense that honda after 5 years are finally making a competitive engine (4th/3rd best) and just now suddenly pulling out.
They just aren't getting the return on it through car sales, brand awareness etc. Marketing cache is at an all time high now and unless a manufacturer can directly calculate the positive impact of motorsport participation then they will cut and run. The threat of another pending global recession because COVID is still stopping people buying cars, £m's in costs each year from F1 participation, no consistent results to do marketing around, public perception beyond fans that F1 might be on the path to technical irrelevance... the only thing that surprises me about Honda's pull out is that there were no rumours before the announcement. But the decision itself doesn't surprise me one bit.Edited by spunkytherabbit on Friday 2nd October 11:20
Danez said:
It's more of a joke in the sense that honda after 5 years are finally making a competitive engine (4th/3rd best) and just now suddenly pulling out.
I think Honda are simply consolidating, they are getting pasted in all areas, the cars are mostly old ,motorbikes generators boat engines chainsaws etc are being wiped out by Chinese copies. They know the future is strategic alliance / merger with another bigger fish and so are losing the costly baggage. Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff