Advice regarding CRA 2015 & car dealers
Discussion
After a little advice and real world experience regarding trying to return a car to a dealer using the CRA 2015
A little background -
Put deposit down on a 118i D on 3rd October, following a short test drive. Car had a warning light on the dash for a faulty bulb, but nothing else. Agreed that the bulb needed replacing, returned to pay the balance on 7th October. Dealer arranges to switch the V5, and sorts the tax in my name.
DPF light comes on 3-4 times over the next week, doesn't stay illuminated, is annoying but not major.
On the morning of the 16th the car just cuts out -total loss of drive. Green flag attend, plug in the diagnostic box and inform me that the cam sensor has gone, but there are also 11 other faults (inc the DPF) that the car is saying is wrong. Car is towed back to my house as I cant leave it on the side of the road. I contact the dealer, and he doesnt want to know - says as its 7 days after purchase, not his responsibility. I bring up the CRA legislation, that as the car is not fit for purpose (ie it doesnt start) I'm legally entitled to a refund within 30 days. I need a car for my commute, and this is leaving me in the position of having to buy another whilst this is sorted out. I have no need for 3 vehicles, so a refund (at no further cost to myself) is the only option Given the list of faults I have no confidence in the car, and that I am expecting a full refund. He says I should have had it towed to his yard, he'll look at it, but I've got to pay to get it there. After some discussion he says he'll sort and ring me back the next day...
3 days later and no contact. I ring back, and inform that as they have not sorted it I'll be bringing it back myself.
On the 20th October I return the car via a flat bed. After the salesman tries to start the car he says the boss is busy, cant see me now but if I leave the keys and paperwork he'll ring me back tomorrow. Again, I have no faith in them ringing me back as they seem impossible to do this at any other time.
Eventually (45 mins later) the manager agrees to see me. After a conversation between the salesman, the manager and another person in a language that I dont speak, they argue that they are entitled to 1 attempt to rectify the issue. After I state again the CRA 2015 legislation I'm basically told that I'm a liar, I could have taken the senor off myself, and that they are sending it to their mechanic.
I have no problem with their mechanic examining the vehicle, even though the engineer report from the call out states what the issue is. They then tell me that as I haven't got the V5 they wont be refunding me, but will get back to me in 7 days.
Rather than accept my written explanation, they wish to receive it via email. I leave the written copy anyway, keep the spare key and paperwork and then leave. I write the email, and after searching on the website find they have no email address. After another call to the manager (from a different number) they then state their email address. Email is sent, no confirmation is received.
I check with the DVLA and they have never transferred ownership, the last log book was ordered in September, and at the very least they have been in error, at the most I've been lied to regarding this process.
I have no doubt that they will continue to drag their feet, ignore my communications and put obstacles in every path, however I'm at a loss as for where to turn next.
TL/DR
Seem to have been sold a lemon by a dodgy dealer, has anyone had any success with returning goods under the CRA 2015, and if not what did you do next? Chargeback through bank? Trading standards? Small claims?
Cheers.
A little background -
Put deposit down on a 118i D on 3rd October, following a short test drive. Car had a warning light on the dash for a faulty bulb, but nothing else. Agreed that the bulb needed replacing, returned to pay the balance on 7th October. Dealer arranges to switch the V5, and sorts the tax in my name.
DPF light comes on 3-4 times over the next week, doesn't stay illuminated, is annoying but not major.
On the morning of the 16th the car just cuts out -total loss of drive. Green flag attend, plug in the diagnostic box and inform me that the cam sensor has gone, but there are also 11 other faults (inc the DPF) that the car is saying is wrong. Car is towed back to my house as I cant leave it on the side of the road. I contact the dealer, and he doesnt want to know - says as its 7 days after purchase, not his responsibility. I bring up the CRA legislation, that as the car is not fit for purpose (ie it doesnt start) I'm legally entitled to a refund within 30 days. I need a car for my commute, and this is leaving me in the position of having to buy another whilst this is sorted out. I have no need for 3 vehicles, so a refund (at no further cost to myself) is the only option Given the list of faults I have no confidence in the car, and that I am expecting a full refund. He says I should have had it towed to his yard, he'll look at it, but I've got to pay to get it there. After some discussion he says he'll sort and ring me back the next day...
3 days later and no contact. I ring back, and inform that as they have not sorted it I'll be bringing it back myself.
On the 20th October I return the car via a flat bed. After the salesman tries to start the car he says the boss is busy, cant see me now but if I leave the keys and paperwork he'll ring me back tomorrow. Again, I have no faith in them ringing me back as they seem impossible to do this at any other time.
Eventually (45 mins later) the manager agrees to see me. After a conversation between the salesman, the manager and another person in a language that I dont speak, they argue that they are entitled to 1 attempt to rectify the issue. After I state again the CRA 2015 legislation I'm basically told that I'm a liar, I could have taken the senor off myself, and that they are sending it to their mechanic.
I have no problem with their mechanic examining the vehicle, even though the engineer report from the call out states what the issue is. They then tell me that as I haven't got the V5 they wont be refunding me, but will get back to me in 7 days.
Rather than accept my written explanation, they wish to receive it via email. I leave the written copy anyway, keep the spare key and paperwork and then leave. I write the email, and after searching on the website find they have no email address. After another call to the manager (from a different number) they then state their email address. Email is sent, no confirmation is received.
I check with the DVLA and they have never transferred ownership, the last log book was ordered in September, and at the very least they have been in error, at the most I've been lied to regarding this process.
I have no doubt that they will continue to drag their feet, ignore my communications and put obstacles in every path, however I'm at a loss as for where to turn next.
TL/DR
Seem to have been sold a lemon by a dodgy dealer, has anyone had any success with returning goods under the CRA 2015, and if not what did you do next? Chargeback through bank? Trading standards? Small claims?
Cheers.
I rejected a car for almost the same reason; mine refused to start the very next day and when the AA came out they found a laundry list of faults.
I phoned the dealer to tell him the AA were bringing it straight back and I wanted a refund. Got the same spiel as you about one chance to repair. I did eventually get my money back and it took a while but as it was a main dealer I wasn't too worried.
I'd be down there today (their busiest day) and make a loud nuisance of myself until the boss refunds you if they're not a main dealer.
Take printouts of the CRA so you can show them the law is on your side.
The price of the car will affect whether or not small claims is an option.
ETA iirc there was a thread on here where the guy got a charge back done for similar. It was a few months ago so you'll have to search but that thread will be helpful as the dealer was a proper arse.
I phoned the dealer to tell him the AA were bringing it straight back and I wanted a refund. Got the same spiel as you about one chance to repair. I did eventually get my money back and it took a while but as it was a main dealer I wasn't too worried.
I'd be down there today (their busiest day) and make a loud nuisance of myself until the boss refunds you if they're not a main dealer.
Take printouts of the CRA so you can show them the law is on your side.
The price of the car will affect whether or not small claims is an option.
ETA iirc there was a thread on here where the guy got a charge back done for similar. It was a few months ago so you'll have to search but that thread will be helpful as the dealer was a proper arse.
Is it a diesel or petrol ? description says 118i D ......... sounds like its more than a cam sensor in all honesty - and if its as cheap as the one on my Mini i'd have put one on to keep me mobile - £3o for the sensor.
However while you may very well be entitled to a refund, getting it will rely on the dealer wanting to give you your money back, and that is not going to be easy.
However while you may very well be entitled to a refund, getting it will rely on the dealer wanting to give you your money back, and that is not going to be easy.
stevemcs said:
Is it a diesel or petrol ? description says 118i D ......... sounds like its more than a cam sensor in all honesty - and if its as cheap as the one on my Mini i'd have put one on to keep me mobile - £3o for the sensor.
However while you may very well be entitled to a refund, getting it will rely on the dealer wanting to give you your money back, and that is not going to be easy.
He stated a DPF so diesel, I was thinking that if it wasn’t allowed to regenerate it will fail to start then as the battery flattens it can generate every code under the sun.However while you may very well be entitled to a refund, getting it will rely on the dealer wanting to give you your money back, and that is not going to be easy.
OP
1 - you should make a clear statement to the trader that you wish to reject under the CRA 2015 and I would do this in writing by sending a letter to their trading address is sole trader or registered office address sis a Ltd company. This should be done within 30 days from delivery to you of the car
2- the law says IF the consumer agrees to a repair - trader cannot insist
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/secti...
3 - stop using goods - which you have done
Ultimately your recourse is in the small claims. Chargeback may work but it depends on the scheme your bank runs. I presume you paid on debit card.
TS are unlikely to get involved in your dispute but it may be worth notifying them that the trader is deny rights under the CRA and they MIGHT be interested in a more general level that trader is not complying with CRA
1 - you should make a clear statement to the trader that you wish to reject under the CRA 2015 and I would do this in writing by sending a letter to their trading address is sole trader or registered office address sis a Ltd company. This should be done within 30 days from delivery to you of the car
2- the law says IF the consumer agrees to a repair - trader cannot insist
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/secti...
3 - stop using goods - which you have done
Ultimately your recourse is in the small claims. Chargeback may work but it depends on the scheme your bank runs. I presume you paid on debit card.
TS are unlikely to get involved in your dispute but it may be worth notifying them that the trader is deny rights under the CRA and they MIGHT be interested in a more general level that trader is not complying with CRA
Centurion07 said:
You might want to check that^... 
The onus is ALWAYS on the consumer to prove there is a faultPart of the remedy then says once the fault is proved it is presumed to be there from sale unless trader proves otherwise. That does not apply to the SHORT TERM RIGHT TO REJECT but it applies to the part about repair/replacement and partial refund.
Its covered in s19.
It depends on what remedy he is using
If he is using the short term right to reject he does have to prove the fault was there at the time of sale.
He doesn't if he is using the other remedy which is a repair/replacement or partial refund. But that works differently to the right to reject.
If he is using the short term right to reject he does have to prove the fault was there at the time of sale.
He doesn't if he is using the other remedy which is a repair/replacement or partial refund. But that works differently to the right to reject.
Page 38 should help
https://www.businesscompanion.info/sites/default/f...
The 3 months thing is a nonsense made up by dealers.
https://www.businesscompanion.info/sites/default/f...
The 3 months thing is a nonsense made up by dealers.
Well I never. News to me.
That said, given that DPF's don't magically fail overnight it shouldn't be a problem especially since there's a whole load of other codes.
Why is it written like that, as in within 30 days the consumer has to show the fault was there at purchase but after 30 and within 6mths it's just assumed? Surely if a fault is assumed after 4mths to have been present then that should apply within 30 days?
That said, given that DPF's don't magically fail overnight it shouldn't be a problem especially since there's a whole load of other codes.
Why is it written like that, as in within 30 days the consumer has to show the fault was there at purchase but after 30 and within 6mths it's just assumed? Surely if a fault is assumed after 4mths to have been present then that should apply within 30 days?
Cheers for the replies, paid the balance with visa debit card, and my bank will action the chargeback provided I've given the dealer time to reply.
After chatting to a lawyer friend, she suggests much like above - head to the dealer and refuse to move until its sorted.
And yes, I did drive the car appropriately following the dpf warning light coming on 😉 just a shame it started doing it repeatedly.
After chatting to a lawyer friend, she suggests much like above - head to the dealer and refuse to move until its sorted.
And yes, I did drive the car appropriately following the dpf warning light coming on 😉 just a shame it started doing it repeatedly.
Centurion07 said:
Well I never. News to me.
That said, given that DPF's don't magically fail overnight it shouldn't be a problem especially since there's a whole load of other codes.
Why is it written like that, as in within 30 days the consumer has to show the fault was there at purchase but after 30 and within 6mths it's just assumed? Surely if a fault is assumed after 4mths to have been present then that should apply within 30 days?
The table itself isn't that clearThat said, given that DPF's don't magically fail overnight it shouldn't be a problem especially since there's a whole load of other codes.
Why is it written like that, as in within 30 days the consumer has to show the fault was there at purchase but after 30 and within 6mths it's just assumed? Surely if a fault is assumed after 4mths to have been present then that should apply within 30 days?
Essentially the short term right to reject was a British thing
The EU then introduced the right to repair/replacement or if that fails a refund. That is what says that in the first 6 months the fault is presumed to have been there (as logn as a fault can be proven0
Therefore a UK consumer has 2 remedies open to them - if they do the short term right to reject the 6 month thing does not apply. but it does apply if they go down the the repair route (i.e it applies from day 1).
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