3D model recreation of Grojean's crash
Discussion
2fast748 said:
Very interesting. Intriguing that the on board camera is strong enough to have almost trapped the car in it's final resting place. Probably a case of not wanting it to fly off during normal operations that's resulted in it being over engineered in this case?
I think at that point most of the energy had transferred to the process of 'post c' slicing the car in half and the back end spinning off. Also, this recreation can only be so accurate, it may well have been the roll hoop that hit the upper section of barrier and took the load, not the camera.Although endless times we have seen cars flip and that camera unit remain in place and in tact so I guess it's pretty strong!
Very interesting video, very well done - not easy to get the physics so accurate that the whole crash can be played out in a way that so closely matched the film. Easy if you just animate it in 3D but with the interplay between the barrier and the car I'd say that was a recreation based on physics.
RG is a lucky lad!
Wow that was interesting. Easy to speculate, but it appears from the animation that if the car had not split into 2 RG might have been trapped under the barrier. The splitting of the car caused the front to spin once it had gone past the barrier thus enabling RG to remove himself from the cockpit. Could have been a different outcome if RG was trapped under the barrier. As said before he was a VERY lucky boy!
Interesting. Seems also to back up my theory regarding the 53g.
The accelerometer that measures the G-Forces is attached the bulkhead, as close to the centre of the car's mass as possible. My theory is that the barrier allowed the front of the car to decelerate slower than the back - where the accelerometer is. So the front going through the barriers had the odd effect of contributing to his survival.
It's a working hypothesis!
The accelerometer that measures the G-Forces is attached the bulkhead, as close to the centre of the car's mass as possible. My theory is that the barrier allowed the front of the car to decelerate slower than the back - where the accelerometer is. So the front going through the barriers had the odd effect of contributing to his survival.
It's a working hypothesis!
How authoritative are modellers? Are they employed by FIA or Liberty?
It is a very good looking animation and explains quite well what might have happened, but without the data from the Haas car model, I don’t see how they can accurately predict the breakup / deceleration, fractures in the Armco.
The posts are normally designed to fail plastically only C has done, so the barrier design was not perfect but then it was hardly a glancing blow. A single barrier in the U.K. would normally withstand impact from an errant 38tonne truck. Providing it is not at an acute angle. For F1 it should only be a case of scaling up the design. If the barrier is likely to be struck acutely, then it is the wrong barrier.
Hopefully better barrier designs generally will start to appear as a result of the FIA study.
It is a very good looking animation and explains quite well what might have happened, but without the data from the Haas car model, I don’t see how they can accurately predict the breakup / deceleration, fractures in the Armco.
The posts are normally designed to fail plastically only C has done, so the barrier design was not perfect but then it was hardly a glancing blow. A single barrier in the U.K. would normally withstand impact from an errant 38tonne truck. Providing it is not at an acute angle. For F1 it should only be a case of scaling up the design. If the barrier is likely to be struck acutely, then it is the wrong barrier.
Hopefully better barrier designs generally will start to appear as a result of the FIA study.
TheDeuce said:
I think at that point most of the energy had transferred to the process of 'post c' slicing the car in half and the back end spinning off. Also, this recreation can only be so accurate, it may well have been the roll hoop that hit the upper section of barrier and took the load, not the camera.
Although endless times we have seen cars flip and that camera unit remain in place and in tact so I guess it's pretty strong!
I think the camera went beyond how strong it was, and what actually remains is the roll hoopAlthough endless times we have seen cars flip and that camera unit remain in place and in tact so I guess it's pretty strong!
I can't remember the driver, but I'm sure in another less ferocious crash this actually failed on them but didn't lead to injuries.
sgtBerbatov said:
TheDeuce said:
I think at that point most of the energy had transferred to the process of 'post c' slicing the car in half and the back end spinning off. Also, this recreation can only be so accurate, it may well have been the roll hoop that hit the upper section of barrier and took the load, not the camera.
Although endless times we have seen cars flip and that camera unit remain in place and in tact so I guess it's pretty strong!
I think the camera went beyond how strong it was, and what actually remains is the roll hoopAlthough endless times we have seen cars flip and that camera unit remain in place and in tact so I guess it's pretty strong!
I can't remember the driver, but I'm sure in another less ferocious crash this actually failed on them but didn't lead to injuries.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWyDHcmaa6U
Here's a better Pic of the Damage.
https://de.motorsport.com/f1/photos/pedro-diniz-sa...
Edited by KR158 on Thursday 10th December 18:58
StevieBee said:
Interesting. Seems also to back up my theory regarding the 53g.
The accelerometer that measures the G-Forces is attached the bulkhead, as close to the centre of the car's mass as possible. My theory is that the barrier allowed the front of the car to decelerate slower than the back - where the accelerometer is. So the front going through the barriers had the odd effect of contributing to his survival.
It's a working hypothesis!
The initial deceleration wasn’t too bad as the barrier gave way. The big G was when the roll hoop behind the driver hit the barrier and didn’t go through it. That’s my theory anyway. The accelerometer that measures the G-Forces is attached the bulkhead, as close to the centre of the car's mass as possible. My theory is that the barrier allowed the front of the car to decelerate slower than the back - where the accelerometer is. So the front going through the barriers had the odd effect of contributing to his survival.
It's a working hypothesis!
What’s fact rather than theory, is that without the halo the driver’s lid would have hit the Armco. Now, helmets are better than they used to be, they’re £5k a pop and made of carbon fibre - but still, he’s at best unconscious and waiting on the fire being put out, before the doc can get to him.
exelero said:
And crashed straight away.
Give the bloke a break. He had one spin into the gravel, not a crash. You can't find the limit until you go over it.He was only 1s off the fastest time during the test. That's pretty good going for a first day, and Barber is one of the more demanding tracks on their calendar. Solid start.
TwentyFive said:
Give the bloke a break. He had one spin into the gravel, not a crash. You can't find the limit until you go over it.
He was only 1s off the fastest time during the test. That's pretty good going for a first day, and Barber is one of the more demanding tracks on their calendar. Solid start.
I wish him all the best. He was only 1s off the fastest time during the test. That's pretty good going for a first day, and Barber is one of the more demanding tracks on their calendar. Solid start.
Seems that the internet went easy on him after the Bahrain incident. Same couldn’t be said after his Spa stunt in ‘12, even though it was the exact same move in my view
exelero said:
TwentyFive said:
Give the bloke a break. He had one spin into the gravel, not a crash. You can't find the limit until you go over it.
He was only 1s off the fastest time during the test. That's pretty good going for a first day, and Barber is one of the more demanding tracks on their calendar. Solid start.
Same couldn’t be said after his Spa stunt in ‘12, even though it was the exact same move in my view He was only 1s off the fastest time during the test. That's pretty good going for a first day, and Barber is one of the more demanding tracks on their calendar. Solid start.
Karun Chandhok covered the Bahrain incident really nicely on the Sky Pad from an overhead view. He rightly pointed out that Kvyat was way beyond Grosjean's mirrors. Romain moved right to avoid the slowing cars ahead and also to give space to the Alfa soon to be re-joining from the left. As Chandhok showed, he couldn't see Kvyat in the mirrors and wouldn't have known he was going to drive into him by moving right.
I think it was a genuine racing incident and I wouldn't apportion blame on Romain for this one despite his previous incidents.
TwentyFive said:
Spa is an easy comparison to make but I don't think they were too similar at all. At Spa he was clearly a bull in a china shop and caused carnage. His race ban was justified. Bahrain was different.
Karun Chandhok covered the Bahrain incident really nicely on the Sky Pad from an overhead view. He rightly pointed out that Kvyat was way beyond Grosjean's mirrors. Romain moved right to avoid the slowing cars ahead and also to give space to the Alfa soon to be re-joining from the left. As Chandhok showed, he couldn't see Kvyat in the mirrors and wouldn't have known he was going to drive into him by moving right.
I think it was a genuine racing incident and I wouldn't apportion blame on Romain for this one despite his previous incidents.
Did he know about Hamilton back in 2012 or not? I’m not sure about that one. Yes I also think it was a genuine racing incident in Bahrain, but the moves are very similar to be fair Karun Chandhok covered the Bahrain incident really nicely on the Sky Pad from an overhead view. He rightly pointed out that Kvyat was way beyond Grosjean's mirrors. Romain moved right to avoid the slowing cars ahead and also to give space to the Alfa soon to be re-joining from the left. As Chandhok showed, he couldn't see Kvyat in the mirrors and wouldn't have known he was going to drive into him by moving right.
I think it was a genuine racing incident and I wouldn't apportion blame on Romain for this one despite his previous incidents.
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